YA Book Council discussion

Our May 2009 Official selection is: [image error] Unwind by Neal Shusterman!

I'm very excited to discuss this very discussable book.

Aaagh! Can we start discussing now? I can't wait until the meeting! No, really I cannot wait.

Yes! Discuss away. I finished it 2 weeks ago, so you know how I felt then. Nancy just finished it too! I'm sure we'll have plenty to discuss at the meeting.

So... I'm guessing you liked it? Did you think about it for a long time afterwards?

Well, it's only been a day so I don't know about "a long time afterwards" but it's definitely thought-provoking. I'm thinking of going through again armed with post-its.

Nancy did that too! She even copied down some quotes into her notebook for further pondering. Alfonso bought me a copy, so I can do that after he finishes reading.

I like the part in the book when ..... oh you will have to wait for me to finish at the discussion. The book was really good and I have so much to say and so many questions.

We have started the discussion of Unwind. Nancy gave the book a five star. Nancy thought the book was thought provoking Damaris gave the book a 4 star.

I wasn't around for the beginning--making coffee!

Sorry all I'm here! Thanks Nancy for reminding me!
I loved the book I think I gave it a 5. It was powerful on many levels.

Alfonso wrote: "I like the part in the book when ..... oh you will have to wait for me to finish at the discussion. The book was really good and I have so much to say and so many questions. "

WHAT WAS YOUR FAVORITE PART!!!??

The Bill of Life is such a controversial document. On the one hand it was logical but on the other hand, who gets to decide who lives or gets unwound. It's wrong. It's especially sad for the foster kids who have had a tough life in the first place. They get judged a lot more critically than any other child.

One of our big questions was, Do you think the author is pro-Life, pro-Choice, or neither?

Alethea wrote: "One of our big questions was, Do you think the author is pro-Life, pro-Choice, or neither?"

I would think the author who be leaning more pro-choice than pro-life. If anyone knows any pro-life individuals, they would never allow any type of "unwinding" of any humans.

I think he represented both side equally well, both their problems and both their good points--I think that's why the book was so successful. Whichever side you're on, you will still like the book because you can interpret it to agree with your point of view.

What was your favorite story element? Favorite character?

Yea he does represent both sides well, it is such a hot issue that it would have been tough for him not to.

I really loved the complexity of Levi. Having his whole life be devoted to a Holy Unwound, being forced to see reality, the struggles of finding out who he was, what meaning in life was. It's no wonder he went off to be a clapper. But in the end, he still stood up for something, Connor, Risa and the boy he was traveling with (forgot his name).

Yikes! GR broke for about 20 minutes, I had a hard time not hitting refresh every 10 seconds :(

CyFi? Very cool character. Weigh in here, mateys (when you get home--Suzy, the majority of folks just left about 20 mins ago so we should have company here soon.)

My favorite character is also Lev--at first I was prepared to dislike him, but he goes through so much change in the book, he really becomes a heroic character for me.

I liked the thought-provoking notion that in the book, the personality/soul is tied to the body parts; then thinking of reality, how it is unreasonable to think that the soul could be tied to the physical pieces of the person. But that there are stories out there like of the woman who gets a transplant from a young guy, and all of a sudden she likes beer and fried chicken. Alfonso, can you post that link if you still have it on Jane's computer?

Something I don't remember if it was mentioned--did anyone think of the biblical story of King Solomon? When the two women come to him claiming the same baby, and the real mother is the one who is willing to give up the child to the impostor when King Solomon threatens to divide the child in half between the two claimants. I can't remember if it was actually in the book, but I especially thought of it in relation to Hayden (sorry, it's been a while since I read it so I might be mistaken) and his parents who are fighting bitterly over everything in divorce.

It's strange to think of it already in fiction (who would do that to a child!?!) but also to think that in reality people do much worse things to their offspring.

Stay tuned, I'm converting the "video" from the meeting to audio file. I'm trying this for the first time, so there may be some glitches.

Suzy wrote: "Alfonso wrote: "I like the part in the book when ..... oh you will have to wait for me to finish at the discussion. The book was really good and I have so much to say and so many questions. "

WHAT..."

I like when Roland is being unwound. It is creepy and disturbing.

Suzy wrote: "Yea he does represent both sides well, it is such a hot issue that it would have been tough for him not to.

I really loved the complexity of Levi. Having his whole life be devoted to a Holy Unwou..."

I think that Levi was such an interesting character and was the one that changed the most.

Suzy wrote: "Alethea wrote: "One of our big questions was, Do you think the author is pro-Life, pro-Choice, or neither?"

I would think the author who be leaning more pro-choice than pro-life. If anyone knows ..."

I think that the author had a pro-life tilt to the book because of how he portrayed being unwound. He showed that even though you were being aborted "unwound", you were still alive. If you would to apply it to a fetus, then you would be able to say that a fetus has feelings and is alive so when you are aborting the fetus you are actually killing them. I think that after our discussion I agreed that he the author did a good job of balancing both pro and choice.

Also, the body retains the memories of what the unwound was able to do. I think that the book was a way to show what pro-choice advocates could eventually lead to. If it is okay to abort a fetus, then maybe they can go further and say that it is okay to unwind a child up to 1 years old since the can't talk. It can become a slippery slope and the reason for abortions lead to the acceptance of unwinding children of the age of 13-18 because you have seen their potential unlike a fetus.

My favorite part was also Roland getting unwound. I love the simplicity of it -- leaving room for you to imagine the horror, and the fact that the doctors were talking about trifling things, like it's just another day in the office. It was disturbing; it made my jaw drop.

I was also preparing to hate Lev, but at the end, I felt he was the hero of the story. Even though Connor (and you can disagree) was made out to be the primary protagonist, neither he nor Resa had a life changing experience. Lev was that character.

I think I have to agree with Damaris a little with the CyFi chapters: they were a little slow and I found myself wanting to skim them. However, Cyfi's character is the next most interesting person-- how the unwound parts have affected him and such.

Oh yeah! What do you think of Humphrey?

I really liked the character Lev since his developed the most out of the others. Being unwound or "tithed" was something he accepted and wanted his whole life, but changed when he saw it for what it really was. Imagine if he wasn't involved in that accident, he wouldn't have realized what the truth was.

CyFi (or later CyTy) was disturbing to read but one of the best parts of the book. It showed us the possibilities of the residual thoughts from a partial brain. I wonder how true that might be if it were possible to fuse part of a brain with another...

I still tend to think the author is leaning more towards the pro-life. The author portrays a world where life is taken for granted where society is free to toss life around through "storking," where minors are seen as expendable means for prolonging another's life (stem cell research for today), and life is literally taken (unwound) from those who hardly have a say. That's a real touchy topic especially for a young adult book.

Edward wrote: "That's a real touchy topic especially for a young adult book. "

I agree! I have a tendency to stay away from controversy like this especially in a face-to-face situation involving people with whom I would like to remain friends despite our differences.

I'm actually pro-Choice, which is not to say that I do not value life. I would be highly unlikely to choose an abortion for myself. I do agree with the pro-Life idea that all life is precious and should be given its chance to be something--Someone! But I also think there are horrible people out there who should not be having children and bearing them into situations where poverty, crime, and depravity narrow the chances that the adult produced from that child would be successful or productive, or happy. (And I think they should have a choice, *not* like in Unwind where they think, "Oh, I have a rotten kid, let's get him Unwound" but rather, "I'm going to be a terrible parent, I can't be responsible for bringing another person into this mess")

I think it's incredibly unfair for the children to suffer the punishment for not being good enough, when part of the blame may lie with the ones doing the parenting. In Unwind, human rights are suspended between the ages of 13-18!

I with you on this Alethea! I'm pro-Choice too, but I would *never* chose abortion for myself. And it is a really touchy topic--I don't really want to get into the whys. I wonder if this book will ever be assigned in a class; what would their discussions be like? I predict there'll be tears.

Regarding "storking," I'm still with the idea that Shusterman was showing that sometimes abortion is better than being storked-- like with that one storked baby Connor's family/neighbors passed around until she/he died.

Ok, it took me a while, and there's still a lot of background noise, but not too bad. Here's a link to the first file (more to come)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Frio1c...

I'm trying to convert this to MP3 also, we'll find out soon if it works!

(YABC outsiders, be nice to us! We're not professional podcasters or even a/v editors--we just love talking about books and chowing down with friends. That said, enjoy.)

Not bad. Thanks Alethea! We're learning. Wow, my voice is really high pitched. I don't why I was talking about butchers--someone should've stopped me.

For those who weren't there, voices are from the following people:

Damaris
Nancy
Alethea
Alfonso
Edward
Carrie
David (who didn't say anything)
Roxy (who was late)
Me

I like the idea of orphans in fiction. Otherwise I wouldn't enjoy Bloody Jack so much!

But real orphans... Yikes. I only have a vague notion of what it must be like to be an orphan in the real world. Shuttled from foster home to foster home, hoping to be adopted. Your formative years basically a patchwork make-do quilt of parenting styles and experiences. What about security, stability? And how can the System be expected to turn out a proper result when it's already difficult enough for a Family of your own flesh and blood to produce the desired results?

Jane wrote: "David (who didn't say anything)"

There will be 2 or 3 more files! I'm sure David will say something soon.

That's true. I heard David laugh.

Jane wrote: "I don't why I was talking about butchers--someone should've stopped me."

I could have edited that out--I left it in anyway! I thought it was a bit relevant to how the doctors/nurses behaved during the Unwinding of Roland. How they have to become inured to the gore of what they're doing for a living.

And don't worry about how your voice sounds. Mine always sounds alien to me in recordings. I think maybe it's because our ears hear our own voices so differently than everyone else does--each person being in a unique position in relation to the source of the sound.

My laugh also sounds weird... now I'm just being annoying self conscious, so I'll stop.

Alethea wrote: "I like the idea of orphans in fiction. Otherwise I wouldn't enjoy Bloody Jack so much!

I thought the idea was starting to feel cliche, but I still like it. Removing parent figures gives a story teller many more options. If a "good" or remotely good parent was in the picture, the characters wouldn't get into so much trouble. Oh that drama.

On our way home, Rox and Alfonso were discussing the pastor from the story. It's kind of interesting that he (like many others) has to publicly show that he supports tithing, but at the first opportunity, turns around and criticizes it. He does redeem himself at the end though.

The next file is up.

Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoIcfs...

(although there is nothing to watch--I had to position the camera thus so that we all got about an equal distance from the mic in the camera)

Audio:
http://www.vidtomp3.com/mp3_details.p...

I liked the pastor. I wonder how many clergy end up questioning their faith and questioning why they believe something or if it was wrong. I think the world would be a much better place if more holy people asked themselves that, because some of them are doing very, very bad things in the name of God.

Here's file #3.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LizPfe...

Audio: http://www.vidtomp3.com/mp3_details.p...

Lol, I'm only in there for about two minutes.

I haven't finished yet! I got tired and went to sleep... I think 1 or 2 more files ought to finish it up.

Cool, I can show Kevin the discussion even though he probably won't understand what we're talking about.

Very nice audio file guys! It came out really clear. Definitely sounds like all of you guys :) well everyone I've met. I definitely agree with all the interesting parts that you guys discussed. JANE YOU NEED TO ACTUALLY READ THE BOOK... SKIPPING PARTS! haha jk

Wow, this book was astonishing! It was profound, which is rare for an entertaining book. Often I find when a book is very quotable, very deep, it is a slow-paced, contemplative, character-driven novel. Unwind juggled multiple story-lines and characters, was fast-paced, and touched on several very heavy themes--the sanctity of life, where the line is drawn between life and death, the ethics of organ transplant, the abortion debate, where the soul lies--it is still hard for me to understand how Shusterman managed to fit all this in less than 400 pages.
I agree with Edward, Jane and Suzy that Lev is the hero of the novel as well as one of the most interesting characters due to his drastic choices and his transformation. The fact that he didn't get swallowed by his hatred attests to his strength. Many other characters were consumed by their hatred of the other side. Lev survived.
The way the novel ended was a little unexpected for such a dark novel. I love that Connor "allows himself the wonderful luxury of hope."
Sorry for the dissertation! I could go on, but I think I've used my quota of adjectives and adverbs :)

Carrie wrote: "Sorry for the dissertation! I could go on, but I think I've used my quota of adjectives and adverbs :)"

You may comment again in 24 hours ^_^ j.k.

This one is definitely going in my re-read pile. One can only hope that no one makes a movie out of it only to miss all the important themes that you mentioned. (One of the reasons why I think my friend Bill should be the only guy making movies out of books, because he would rather die than leave out the essential parts of a novel. Instead Hollywood gives money to things like Dance Flick and Hannah Montana: The Movie. Hollywood take note! You should be writing your checks to Bill Elverman!)

Alethea wrote: "Jane wrote: "I don't why I was talking about butchers--someone should've stopped me."

I could have edited that out--I left it in anyway! I thought it was a bit relevant to how the doctors/nurses b..."

You were talking about how a butcher gets comfortable with the slaughter of an animal, like the doctors talking about trivial things during the unwinding.

I wanted to add that to me the book shows the extent to what a pro-choice stance can lead to in the future. Now, I am pro-choice and also believe that life is precious. It is not a course of action that I would personally would want to take. It feels as though the pro-choice supporters won the civil war, since the outcome of the war was that unwinding was okay. The book also shows that if you give those that are "trouble makers" some time to develop they can become good citizens that can contribute positively in society.....

....If you unwind a child that is bad, you are not giving them an opportunity. I think that this also shows that by aborting a fetus you are denying that child to be someone. Ultimately I think that the author wrote a great book that gets you thinking critically. This is what a book should do, whether it be fantasy or literary fiction.

I'm so bummed that I missed the discussion :( it's end of the school year and I've been swamped.

I loved the CyTy scene and the unwinding as well! They were just so gripping.

Jane wrote: "Oh yeah! What do you think of Humphrey?"

I thought Humphrey was a great underlying theme. Going from something so sick and disgusting as crazy parents collecting their son's body parts to get their son back to the beauty of bringing together the soul of their son through the people who were saved by him. There were just so many great characters, stories, and takes on life after being unwound. Humphrey was one of the most powerful stories for me besides Levi's.