Modern Good Reads discussion

Seems a simple question, but I see so many books that could be Urban Fantasy, could be Paranormal, could be Horror. Authors especially often have a difficult time classifying their own work because they see so many elements in it.

What qualities do you think define the Urban Fantasy genre?

In my opinion, Urban Fantasy is obviously urban, in a large city. But, really, that's not always the case. And its a broad reaching genre, encompassing Adult and Young Adult books of many kinds.

Its a contemporary setting for fantasy elements blended into our everyday lives. It usually involves one or more fantasy creatures and secret societies revolving around fantasy concepts. But it is definitely contemporary, set in today, in the world of cars, computers, cell phones and airplanes.

So we have all of these modern aspects along with strange, magical, inexplicable fantasy elements woven into the fabric of normal reality.

And now onto Paranormal Romance, which has become a prominent part of Urban Fantasy. So much that the two genres are almost inseparable.

Though there are many examples of Urban Fantasy that don't involve a leather-clad badass chick with a sword or other edged weapon, that is essentially, the embodiment of what the genre represents to most readers.

My background in horror and all other types of sci-fi, fantasy, and thriller have given me a broader perspective and taste. I enjoy all flavors of paranormal fiction, and I have a tendency to lump it all under the heading of Urban Fantasy, if its contemporary enough.

And in my own writing, I have tried to blend elements of horror, fantasy, paranormal, thriller, romance, and even erotica. So I can call my work Urban Fantasy, but I can also call it many other things, like paranormal romance or erotic paranormal romance, or even thriller.

Wikipedia has a great writeup on Urban Fantasy. And essentially its the "urban" part that ties it all together. So fiction across many genres can be classed as urban fantasy if it has fantasy elements set within a city.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_fa...

And wikipedia acknowledges that which I have known all along, Laurell K. Hamilton is still the undisputed reigning champion of ADULT urban fantasy (not YA).

I get trampled on by today's UF readers for saying such things, but the fact remains that the Anita Baker vampire hunter series was and in some ways still is the quintessential UF series, having kickstarted the genre.

Laurell K. Hamilton is a huge inspiration to my own writing, despite the grumblings of what she has done with her series recently. (its kinda gone sour)

I can see that and it's similar to a discussion I saw which featured Jim Butcher and several other fantasy authors where they talked about this very thing.

It seems to me that Urban Fantasy is one of those genres that's almost easier to identify by what it /isn't/ rather than trying to encompass everything that it can be.

My predicament as an author was, okay I've got vampires in a real-world, modern setting which sounds like Urban Fantasy, but most of my novel takes place on a small private island rather than a city. I eventually started calling it Horror, just because that seemed a more inclusive term, even though there's a strong love story at the heart of the story (I won't call it a romance, because it's not romanticized at all). There are also elements of thriller and satire.

I like the term Paranormal Thriller, but it's not widely used.

As much as I dislike where the series has gone, I agree with you that Hamilton really did popularize and kick-start the current Urban Fantasy genre. There are individual books and even movies that came before (HBO's Cast A Deadly Spell and Witchhunt for example), but her Anita Blake series really was ground-breaking.

Brian wrote: "I can see that and it's similar to a discussion I saw which featured Jim Butcher and several other fantasy authors where they talked about this very thing.

It seems to me that Urban Fantasy is on..."

I can tell you that the Anita Blake series really blew me away. I had been reading horror and other vamp/werewolves/supernatural types of novels, but when I hit on one of Laurell K. Hamilton's books (Danse Macabre was the first) I was totally hooked.

I had never seen erotic horror/thriller/fantasy before. And essentially, that's what she writes, horrifically violent creatures, thriller styled plots, and a heavy dash of erotica. Dean Koontz and Stephen King never went anywhere near this kind of writing.

That series of books set me on a new path of discovery, digging through Urban Fantasy novels to find more like hers. But there are very few books like hers, sad to say. I know that books by Moning and Ione and Sherrilyn Kenyon and Sunny are considered to be similar, but I catch a far heavier romance vibe from those novels.

Laurell K. Hamilton really brought home the fusion between the erotic-fantasy-horror in a blend I enjoyed.

I am afraid to read anything past Skin Trade, because I don't want to see one of my favorite book series deteriorate before my eyes. I am sure I will eventually, but I have avoided it.

And so, in my writing, I try to incorporate some of the qualities I admired about the Anita Baker series.

And I hear your genre woes. Basically, for you and I Brian, we need a "Contemporary Vampire Fiction" genre. There are so many novels that would fit that genre, it really is called for these days. Goodreads has been fast to adopt categories that are strictly vampire. We have all kinds of listopia lists and interestingly titled bookshelves just for vampires. That's one of the reasons I like this place so much.

Agreed. Vampire novels especially take on so many styles these days that there needs to be some new categories. Contemporary Vampire Fiction sounds nice and non-judgmental to me, I could go for that. It's also wide enough to be inclusive to a lot of novels that aren't quite horror, but aren't quite romance either.

Maybe Contemporary Paranormal Fiction, just to give the werewolves, fae, and other creatures a place too.

Brian wrote: "Agreed. Vampire novels especially take on so many styles these days that there needs to be some new categories. Contemporary Vampire Fiction sounds nice and non-judgmental to me, I could go for tha..."

Really, Brian, there are so many books of each paranormal/supernatural creature, they each deserve their own genre.

But I can agree, Contemporary Paranormal Fiction works for me. Broad enough to shove everything but the kitchen sink in there.

Urban Fantasy is a relatively new term to me. I always classified everything under horror. Even with horror now there are so many sub-genres it's scary. Vampire Fiction should have a genre all of its own now. To sum up what Urban Fantasy is, I think you covered that pretty well, Travis.

I was told by an author of urban fantasy the following:

Fantasy is not based in real life. Urban Fantasy is fantasy, but it's based in real life. So, you'll find some characters that are fantasy, but they are mixing among humans and in "real life" environments.

Don't know if it helps, but it has helped me when choosing books!

Just My Opinion wrote: "I was told by an author of urban fantasy the following:

Fantasy is not based in real life. Urban Fantasy is fantasy, but it's based in real life. So, you'll find some characters that are fantasy..."

That's a pretty good call. That is my favorite kind of fantasy, where the fantasy elements blend seamlessly with the real world.

:)

Just My Opinion, that is exactly why I classified my book, The Hunters, Urban Fantasy. Someone told me the same thing!!

Brian, even if vampires had their own genre, you would have to have subgenres, because there is everything from stake em and kill em to lets get married and have babies!

I suspect what we will find is authors having to use more and more Genre queues to tell the audience what to expect.

For example, I am helping an author publish a mid-grade sci-fi novel with a twist of romance. But really, that sells better than the actual book blurb? Newer, faster generations don't want an introduction to what makes the story unique, they want to know how/ if it fits into their already preferred reading styles.

It scares me, because there is now an app out called "Write Your Own Book, Fill in the Blanks" and that is what it is all about. Same stories, different character names and descriptions. Horrifying really. Oh, but we were talking about urban fantasy, right?

Heidi wrote: "Just My Opinion, that is exactly why I classified my book, The Hunters, Urban Fantasy. Someone told me the same thing!!

Brian, even if vampires had their own genre, you would have to have subgenr..."

I really really hope the creator of that app designed it for those "how-to" novels, where you really could plug in certain terms and the thing almost writes itself.

That should never, ever, be used for fiction.

Oh no, it is. I think it was supposed to be a joke making fun of things like 50 Shades of grey, and all the vampire romance novels that basically borrow from Sookie and Twilight, but it is for genre fiction. You plug in the genre elements first, and then more... it is a little creepy. I only played with a sample b/c I thought it would be funny... but it actually came out better than I would have thought for a joke. I didn't even have to agonize for 20 minutes over the opening sentence! (Of course, it was intensely cliche.... but it was darned good! I was hooked, then felt deeply ashamed!)

Heidi wrote: "Oh no, it is. I think it was supposed to be a joke making fun of things like 50 Shades of grey, and all the vampire romance novels that basically borrow from Sookie and Twilight, but it is for genr..."

Now that's creepy. Startlingly creepy.

I know, right?! Soon we writers will be obsolete!

Heidi....do you have a link to the app? That's the scariest thing I've heard in a long time! My hubs is a teacher too, so I REALLY want to check this out before all the kids term papers are written FOR them! Yeesh!

-JMO

Crap, I can't find it! I guess I got the name of the app wrong, confusing it with Dan Poynters Write by Numbers app (which is just an organizer, not nearly so scary!) It was a fiction writing program, so it shouldn't be a problem for teachers... well, maybe for creative writing teachers, but I found it to be quite generic, so I think anyone who is well-read or familiar with a genre should be able to pick out anything written this way. It uses a lot of cliches and literally steals lines from genres you are using. Crap, I've tried googling under "Fifty Shades," and Fiction Paint by Numbers and I am not seeing it. I found it on some blog by a book reviewer (I am fairly sure? May have been an author) who was mocking the style of Shades of Grey and suggesting that the author may have very well used such a program! That was a couple of months ago, so maybe it got shut down because of copyright? Dunno.

LMAO...no big deal Heidi...was just curious anyway! Thanks! :)

Much more complicated subject that I thought. I thought Urban Fantasy was when there was either no romance or it was a small part of the story (ie Dresden Files, Kate Daniels, Jane Yellowrock etc) and Paranormal Romance was when the romance was the biggest part/focus of the story (ie Black Dagger Brotherhood, Demonica, Big Bad Wolf series etc).

Heidi wrote: "Just My Opinion, that is exactly why I classified my book, The Hunters, Urban Fantasy. Someone told me the same thing!!

Brian, even if vampires had their own genre, you would have to have subgenr..."

I can't get my head around how someone who is dead can father a baby.... I guess there are no limits.

Alisa wrote: "Much more complicated subject that I thought. I thought Urban Fantasy was when there was either no romance or it was a small part of the story (ie Dresden Files, Kate Daniels, Jane Yellowrock etc)..."

That appears to be one of the definitions. And Urban of course, being in a city. And then you have the contemporary aspect of it, where its fantasy based in the real life every-day world.

Depends on who you ask I guess.

:)

And agents can't figure out why authors struggle with classifying their own books! Lols!!

I guess living in a fantasy. Urban mens to live in a city so if you combine that with fanasy, then thats easy to figure out.

Shane wrote: "I can't get my head around how someone who is dead can father a baby.... I guess there are no limits."

Yeah. Well, I think you're aware that not all vamp fiction considers vampires to be dead or undead. I have read numerous novels that treat vampires as some sort of abberration/mutation/different race. And being alive, they do occasionally have babies.

JR Ward, Sunny, and Sherrilyn Kenyon have all written books where vampires were not dead or undead, very much alive, and they have children.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy" ~ Shakespeare

Shane wrote: "Heidi wrote: "Just My Opinion, that is exactly why I classified my book, The Hunters, Urban Fantasy. Someone told me the same thing!!

Brian, even if vampires had their own genre, you would have t..."

Usually the vampires of paranormal romance and even some Uf the vampires are not dead. That's actually rare. As Travis said they are usually considered a mutation or more commonly a different race. Marriage/mating & family/babies is usually part of the story. They are nothing like horror story vampires. Even demons can be nice guys & get married & have babies in paranormal romance....lol

Just My Opinion wrote: "I was told by an author of urban fantasy the following:

Fantasy is not based in real life. Urban Fantasy is fantasy, but it's based in real life. So, you'll find some characters that are fantasy..."

That's a great measuring stick, actually! It's simple, but it actually holds true for most of what people classify as Urban Fantasy.

As for the Write-By-Numbers program, that is frightening! I'm waiting for the first person to write a story with that thing and get a six-figure publishing deal out of it!

It's kind of older but I have always considered Charles de Lint urban fantasy. Somewhere along the line though things got much sexier. (Not Charles de Lint though :D )

Marilyn wrote: "It's kind of older but I have always considered Charles de Lint urban fantasy. Somewhere along the line though things got much sexier. (Not Charles de Lint though :D )"

Can't say as I have read his material, but his Goodreads profile says he's Urban Fantasy. As you said, he harkens from the days when Urban Fantasy was not loaded with the sensual writings of today's quasi paranormal romance novels.

:)

Read Phantom Bigfoot's book and it will tell you exactly what urban fantasy is - a fantasy world set in reality. Like It's a Wonderful Life!

I love Charles de Lint. It actually frustrates me that Urban fantasy has been smooshed into Paranormal and especially Paranormal Romance.

Technically Urban Fantasy used to be called Low Fantasy (in contrast to High Fantasy). UF, to me, is any fantasy setting based more on realistic circustances or set in cities. Gaiman is a superb Urban Fantasy author, for example.

Just My Opinion wrote: "I was told by an author of urban fantasy the following:

Fantasy is not based in real life. Urban Fantasy is fantasy, but it's based in real life. So, you'll find some characters that are fantasy..." exactly how I feel UF is.

I do need to read some of Gaiman. As soon as I finish The Changeling by Chris Shields, and a couple other reads, I am going to start knocking off some more Urban Fantasy.

Honestly though, I think both The Steward and The Changeling can be considered Urban Fantasy because they are modern day worlds with a little splice of fantasy concepts blended in. By my measuring stick, that's Urban Fantasy.

I am catching some awesome book recommendations here. Love it. :)

Good responses! Gaiman is definitely Urban Fantasy!

Oh Gaiman is amazing. His work with Terry Pratchett Good Omens is so hilarious. It is about the coming of the anti Christ and that is some really good stuff.