Fantasy Aficionados discussion

Spoiler away!

Most of my writer friends attribute Lovecraft as an influence, but I'd never read him before now. So, first, thanks for getting me off my duff!

I enjoyed the story and will read more of the anthology. The prose was a bit dense, but I thought it worked overall. By the end, I'm not sure I was terrified, but I was definitely captivated. What added heavily to the mystique for me, was placing the tale in the context of the time it was written. Weird and disturbing for the time--absolutely!

It was good, but nowhere near Lovecraft's best.

My favourite stuff in this story was probably the bit at the beginning about all the "sensitives" in the world having terrible nightmares and nosebleeds and whatnot. For some reason, that particular descriptive passage always stuck with me. Finding R'lyeh risen was cool too, but I think some of his more memorable and eerie stories were The Shadow Over Innsmouth, The Dunwich Horror, and my personal favourite, At The Mountains Of Madness.

So when reading the description of Cthulhu, does anyone else picture Dr. Zoidberg from Futurama? It sort of spoils the monstrous image, but I think it demonstrates the influence of Lovecraft. Or I could just have a weird imagination. ;)

Okay....how scary is this? I finally got my copy but was not aware until now it was supposed to be scary. Real horror is not for me.

All implied. This is old-fashioned stuff.

I'm almost done. Interesting style that builds suspense. After I read about Lovecraft's history, I can't help but wonder if he personified himself in a couple of the characters, particularly one that primarily engaged in social activity through writing to kindred spirits.

I am disappointed in the racism. I get its that period, but so much of the fear and horror is built off that early 20th century idea of 'primitives' that it is off-putting and distracting. The sheer repetition of it is annoying, starting the tutor that may have been harmed by "the Negro in sailor's gear" to the "eternal Chinamen" telling stories. I find it underwhelming so far. I get the historical impact and the like. Just not interested in further reading of it.

Bryan wrote: "It was good, but nowhere near Lovecraft's best.

My favourite stuff in this story was probably the bit at the beginning about all the "sensitives" in the world having terrible nightmares and nosebl..."

One of my favorites is The Rats in the Walls; I was ready to tear apart the walls in my apartment whenever I heard the neighbors or the merest scratch.

As for Carol's comment on the racism, this was the time where the "white man's burden" paradigm in England and the US was at its height. This is also about the time that an American anthropologist set out to prove that whites were more intelligent by measuring brain volume from various cultures by filling the cavity of people of various ethnicities' skulls with mustard seeds. It can be off putting, but that was the "scientifically proven" paradigm of the time (needless to say, it was disproved about twenty years later when it was found that the anthropologist in question unconsciously packed more mustard seeds into white peoples' skull cavities and selected only skulls from tribes who are more gracile without including the skulls from more robust tribes in the case of the minorities; for example he used skulls from the Inca, who tended to by very small without using skulls from the more robust Iroquois tribe). It's shocking by today's standard, and rather shameful that we ever thought such things.

Jalilah wrote: "Okay....how scary is this? I finally got my copy but was not aware until now it was supposed to be scary. Real horror is not for me."

My question would be, can you handle Poe? This really is only slightly scarier than Poe, so if you can handle Poe, Lovecraft will be no issue for you.

Carol wrote: "After I read about Lovecraft's history, I can't help but wonder if he personified himself in a couple of the characters, particularly one that primarily engaged in social activity through writing to kindred spirits."

Lovecraft put a lot of himself into his characters, the most famous example being that of Randolph Carter. It's why the typical Lovecraftian hero is a scholar.

Heather wrote: "As for Carol's comment on the racism, this was the time where the "white man's burden" paradigm in England and the US was at its height."

Lovecraft was racist against pretty much everybody, except the British. Take "The Horror at Red Hook", for example. He wrote that story because he *despised* the imigrant workers who lived in his New York neighborhood. Hell, the cat from "The Rats in the Walls" was named after Lovecraft's black cat.

And it wasn't just racism. Lovecraft was misogynistic, as well. You know how many of his stories have females who are main characters? Three. "The Dunwich Horror" (Lavinia), "Dreams in the Witch House" (Keziah Mason), and "The Thing on the Doorstep" (Asenath). All of them are villains, and terrible human beings.

Ah, sorry! Despite all my criticisms, I love Lovecraft's stories. I tend to go a bit crazy when discussing him. (Um...I promise that's not the only reason I joined this group? >_>)

"Rats in the Walls" is definitely one of my favorite stories. I also liked "The Hound", "The Dreams in the Witch House", "The Shadow Out of Time", and "The Case of Charles Dexter Ward". Oh, and "In the Walls of Eryx", although he co-wrote that one with Kenneth J. Sterling.

Kimberly wrote: "So when reading the description of Cthulhu, does anyone else picture Dr. Zoidberg from Futurama?"

I used to, until Hello Cthulhu shattered that image even further. @_@

Hello Cthulhu shattered that image even further.

Wasn't familiar with this so I had to go look it up. Too funny! I even found a picture of a crocheted Cthulhu.

I own a hot-pink chrocheted Cthulhu... Coolest thing ever ;P

I've been in love with Lovecraft longer than I care to admit. There is a long story behind to why, but a few years ago I found a christmascarol cd made by a Lovercraftsociety, and it is STILL the most awesome christmas music I've ever heard. MY grandmother even like it, but she is old, no good hearing and no understanding of english, which if she had, would spoil the whole thing.

Later I've read a few stories in Swedish, but two summers ago a friend bought the biggest baddest Lovecraft collection EVER and let me borrow it over the summer in exchange of keeping his desk (he just lived in the city under the semester, I lived there fulltime) and his bed. Good tradeoff, and ever better book. Took me forever to read it because Lovecraft writes the most amazing, but I had such problems keeping my head if I didn't read it slow and with great care..

still, Lovecraft is an amazing author, and I'm happy to have read him ^^

Emelie wrote: "There is a long story behind to why, but a few years ago I found a christmascarol cd made by a Lovercraftsociety, and it is STILL the most awesome christmas music I've ever heard."

That's how I found out about Lovecraft, too! The H.P. Lovecraft Historical Society's CDs. :D

Not the Christmas carol ones, though. My obsession started with their wonderful work on their "Fiddler on the Roof" parody, "A Shoggoth on the Roof". I started reading Lovecraft to get all the references, and fell in love. <3

I can never hear the original Christmas carols after listening to those CDs, though. I have to fight myself every year not to burst into singing "Slay Ride".

Maki wrote: "Carol wrote: "After I read about Lovecraft's history, I can't help but wonder if he personified himself in a couple of the characters, particularly one that primarily engaged in social activity thr..."

I wasn't defending Lovecraft's behavior; I was merely stating it was the normal paradigm of the day. This was the time where local governments were establishing cooking schools to teach immigrants how to "cook normally." The views of people at the time are absolutely shocking by today's standards, but still should be mentioned so we don't repeat their mistakes and regress as a result.
"The Case of Charles Dexter Ward" was also fascinating, as were "The Shadow Over Innsmouth." "The Whispers in the Dark" scared the Hell out of me; it probably didn't help that I was reading it late at night.

I know I didn't think you were defending it, Heather. I was pointing it out because it was very prevalent. In my edition, there was a small essay on Lovecraft, his life story and the progression of his ideas. You did a nice job contextualizing it for anyone who had not had that kind of background.

I did find it interesting that he could hold those kind of "less than equal" ideas and yet be a staunch supporter of FDR and some of the more 'socialist' public policies.

Carol wrote: "I know I didn't think you were defending it, Heather. I was pointing it out because it was very prevalent. In my edition, there was a small essay on Lovecraft, his life story and the progression of..."

Sorry; I don't read people all that well, and I just assumed people thought I was playing devil's advocate because of the explanation of paradigm change over the last century. My parents joke that my profession of choice is appropriate because the titular character of the program Bones reminds them so much of me, so I guess that I'll develop some skills to make it easier to understand others as my education continues.

I didn't know that he supported FDR; considering his beliefs were more in line with Victorian ideologies, it is rather ironic that he would support "socialist" policies.

It's hard to 'read' emotions in text, unless we set out to write the Great American Novel in each post. ;)

Sorry; I don't read people all that well, and I just assumed people thought I was playing devil's advocate ..."

Heather, I'm similar. I sometimes wish there were tone annotations for text--other than emoticons, I suppose.

I think Lovecraft was "out there" even for his time period in terms of the viciousness of his racism--"He" and "Red Hook" come to mind as examples. His racism feels different to me than other writers--disdain, but also tinged with disgust and (I think) fear. I didn't know he considered himself progressive, but I'm not all that surprised at his support for FDR. Sure, FDR used progressive strategies to try to restart the economy, but he also sent people--US citizens, no less--to internment camps. Plus, the reasons that the US entered the war were muddy at best. So I guess racism, xenophobia, and FDR can dovetail quite neatly. I need to dig up my book and see if it has a forward--I don't know much about Lovecraft and never really placed his stories in the context of his experiences.

I don't know how I feel about Lovecraft, but I certainly appreciate the influence his ideas had on horror, fantasy, and popular culture.

Huh. Just looked him up. Apparently he just decided to believe in The Color Line and refused to change his viewpoint. Source: http://www.jstor.org/stable/4240129

Carly wrote: "Sorry; I don't read people all that well, and I just assumed people thought I was playing devil's advocate ..."

Heather, I'm similar. I sometimes wish there were tone annotations for text--other ..."

I never thought of FDR in that manner, although you are right in that he sent tens of thousands of people to internment camps, including paralyzed stroke victims who had to be moved on makeshift palanquins.

Come to think of it, the least progressive are often the ones who think they are quite progressive; my father, for example, thinks he's progressive yet drops epithets toward Muslims, fundamentalist Christians, and the LDS, among other groups.

Heather wrote: "Sorry; I don't read people all that well, and I just assumed people thought I was playing devil's advocate because of the explanation of paradigm change over the last century."

I was actually agreeing with you, there. XD