The History Book Club discussion

This is a thread which discusses "current events and announcements in the world of technology".

We are calling this thread Technology in the News.

Cheers Christopher for the interesting story.

This is a slippery slope and reminds me of the days of J. Edgar Hoover - and days that I do not think that the United States should go back to. Yes, it would give more powers to the FBI and more secrecy but I do not think they need more. The Patriots Act (a real misnomer) already gives more than should have been given under Bush.

Albert Gidari Jr., who represents technology companies on law enforcement matters, criticized that proposed procedure. He argued that if the United States started imposing fines on foreign Internet firms, it would encourage other countries, some of which may be looking for political dissidents, to penalize American companies if they refused to turn over users’ information.

“We’ll look a lot more like China than America after this,” Mr. Gidari said.

You are also right Christopher - I have both a lan line which I find more reliable and has better voice and sound quality and a cell phone for convenience when I am out. It also saved the day during the Sandy storm. And I also use Skype, Facetime, etc. But your generation is different and most just simply use their cells and their computers.

But I think the price of such power (I am talking about the FBI) is too high. Also, I was thinking about all of the cameras in place nowadays. Big Brother is watching. We use to laugh or be frightened at the world described in the book Nineteen Eighty -Four by George Orwell. Big Brother is here and thriving it seems and maybe this should not be so. Ike warned about the build-up of the Pentagon and the military establishment, contracts and the like. This is what he said in his farewell address and this has come true as well and is troubling:

Ike said in his Farewell Address:

A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction...

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience.

The total influence — economic, political, even spiritual — is felt in every city, every statehouse, every office of the federal government.

We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications.

Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society. In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex.

The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes.

We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security and liberty may prosper together.

There is a lot going on that people should keep their eyes on. And somehow I think that folks feel a sense of powerlessness now - more than they ever felt before.

by George Orwell

Yes - I agree totally with your statement in the first paragraph.

Scary actually for him to say these things - you had to wonder what he knew that we did not at that time and what we still do not know.

I also agree there are a great many security flaws built in. I think that young people better be careful about their facebook pages and what others see written about them (tags, etc.).

Well that knowledge might create a new generation of hackers too - depending upon whether you view the glass as being half full or half empty (smile).

You are funny - we did not even learn that on a computer - but having worked for a big computer company for many years - I know a little bit more than that (smile) - thankfully. But think of the very natural and innate knowledge these kids are going to have. I was in the Apple store and I was amazed at the toddlers sitting at iPads and computers and knowing what they were doing. I was standing there saying Wow to myself. It is so natural for them. They are going to be light years ahead of all of us when they grow up. Of course they will also all have carpel tunnel syndrome in terms of how much texting they do with their thumbs ....and boy are they fast.

And you are a young guy - consider these speed demons coming up.

That last line in your post is so telling and that is why in some recent campaigns - one campaign blatantly stated that the facts did not matter because once you put it out there - it becomes the truth for some people and nobody cares about the truth. I know that I do not feel that way but I think the concept of googling something and taking it at face value is out there big time. Think of all of the news stories that big networks are getting wrong because they jump the gun before checking their sources and making sure it is accurate.

"The news isn't the way it was" - nor is much of anything else - it is like using calculators and not really understanding how to do the formula or do the computation yourself.

Great post. There is something about holding a book or a newspaper that may be lost to all of us soon and I will mourn its passing.

Good post Christopher - agreed.

These folks are deadly in and out of their country. I did not know that the even the Financial Times were buried by the hacker attacks - and I hope that the White House has curtailed visitors and heightened security at the same time.

However, they can certainly create havoc - the stock market for instance - but on the Oprah Winfrey facebook page - not so much.

But where there is smoke there is fire and Assad seems to endorse these people.

The S.E.A. emerged during the Syrian uprisings in May 2011, they said, to offer a pro-Assad counternarrative to news coming out of Syria. In speeches, Mr. Assad likened the S.E.A. to the government’s own online security corps, referring to the group as “a real army in a virtual reality.”

What does it say, however, about the make-up of the global economy when a fake tweet can drop the Dow Jones more than 100 points in minutes? Bear in mind that the Dow regained this entire loss mere minutes later when it became obvious that the AP twitter page had been hacked, but I feel the deeper message here is that our society today is overly dependent on the instantaneous distribution of information, be it factual or not.

Craig - you are correct - there is no checking of sources and questioning anything in print - if somebody posted it or stated it - it must be true. We should give the entire world the book The Hidden Persuaders to read for starters. Dated but still apropos. The world is spiraling out of control with minute to minute fixes and tweets. Snippets of news without any substance or validity.

by Vance Packard (no photo)

Oh boy - sometimes folks are just looking for reasons to do bad things. And I have to say that I see a distinct difference between the world and other countries trying to keep tabs of proliferation of nuclear bomb making materials - versus trying to attack private companies and steal their secrets so that they can sell the products in China without inventing them themselves. One is piracy and China has a history of that.

Also I thought that these paragraphs were telling:

Eric Schmidt, the chairman of Google, said Friday that while there was evidence that inside China many citizens are using the Web to pressure the government to clean up industrial hazards or to complain about corruption, “so far there is no positive data on China’s dealings with the rest of the world” on cyberissues.

Google largely pulled out of China after repeated attacks on its systems in 2009 and 2010, and now has its Chinese operations in Hong Kong. But it remains, Mr. Schmidt said, a constant target for Chinese cyberattackers.

Interesting article.

That is amazing. Our grid has enough problems without these folks.

Right now the shield is holding. But that is a worse bombardment than in a war.

Wow that is big and a big NO NO. That is attempted spying at the highest levels. In fact, it appears that if you read between the lines that they were successful - the Chinese are the biggest copiers the world has ever known. I think this proves that they are clever, manipulative, steal ideas and try to pawn them off as their own, have a massive amount of people deployed to create havoc, and obviously though very bright are not that inventive or creative on their own. The fact that they have lent us money is going to put a damper on aggressive sanctions. But we can always hope.

You know I think it was in Shanghai that I saw the "White House" (smile)

http://traditions.cultural-china.com/...



Funnier still - this is where they actually have on display folks copying famous portraits and works of art. (got to love them)

There were also some crafts of more Chinese artifacts that were quite good. They have a talent for copying.

Here is their description of what goes on here:

In the main building of the museum is the exhibition hall for folk arts, carvings and embroideries, composing 10 specialized workshops staffed with 50 professional artisans. The exhibits and collections in the museum and research institute are the masterpieces of modern and contemporary arts and crafts. There are shops in the museum and the research institute offering art works, arts and crafts and tourist souvenirs.

I think that the country has become desensitized with the 24/7 screaming pundits - they tune out unless there is some splashy headline which grabs their attention - sad isn't it.

The above is not really a park - it is a building and they call it a quasi-museum where they literally copy other people's art work, etc. I am not kidding. And their copies are quite good and they are very proud of that.

Yes, as I added above - the copies are excellent copies. And they are very proud of that. I am just not sure why they would not be even more proud of creating their own art.

Michael wrote: "Cheers Christopher for the interesting story."

six years?????????????

Let us hope not because it is chilling that even half of what he is saying might be true.

I had one word to post when I read your title but my rules and guidelines do not allow me to post it. (shaking one's head from side to side and rolling eyes)

Isn't this sad to say but I don't believe a word they are saying (after reading the entire article).

What is your take Christopher because I can imagine your sardonic smile and one sided grin all of the way from Korea as you posted the article with some glee. (smile)

I didn't think so!

Oh my goodness - instead of nuclear war - we have cyber war. And I might dare ask the question now who would behind all of this? Would it be the same folks who are installing the cyber hotline. They are going to be quite busy.

But both countries have experienced terrorism from within.

How did Apple get involved in this hoopla - and I have to laugh at how they are painting Amazon as having a "white horse" - they are buying and controlling everything including now goodreads.

Well I have been following this story for some time now . . . and an interesting side note was one that I became aware of when I was discussing this with my local librarian awhile back . . . his take was that Apple was trying to setup a universal price structure for eBooks to SAVE people from overpricing. . .

That almost seems believable noting the fact that even though the 5 publishers named in the suit have settled out of court . . . and the prices of eBooks offered from them have skyrocketed out of control IMHO since.

Hmmmm, I'm still waiting for the rebate of the money that I was overcharged between 2010-2012 that I'm supposed to get. Fat chance I'll ever see any of THAT . . .

I agree Tomerobber - since this thing came out of court - the prices are much worse. Obviously the guy with the white hat has been painted as owning a black horse. And with all of the hoopla - all of the other real giants are just sitting quietly collecting their money from the increased prices. I am not sure what they were trying to accomplish.

I've been buying and reading eBooks since 1999 . . . I owned 2 Rocket eReaders after they became available for the Macintosh operating system. I was able to purchase books from Fictionwise and they had an option for membership that allowed you to earn monetary credit to use for future purchases. That allowed me to buy some more books.
When eBooks gained popularity . . . in 2010 Fictionwise was bought out by B&N . . . and Fictionwise was prohibited from the cost cutting and removed from getting the ability to offer new releases from major publishers . . . that essentially was their death knell . . . B&N learned every thing they could about formatting and design of eBooks from this purchase but being as greedy as everyone else . . . wanted the profit from selling an eReader device as well . . . not content with just the profit from selling the books.

Earlier this year Fictionwise was no longer profitable for B&N and they went out of business and content was transferred from their servers to B&N. (That was a fiasco . . . )

In my opinion Amazon was no better when THEY decided to launch the Kindle eReader . . . just around the same time the iPad was released with it's capacity for doing many things . . including being able to read books formatted for eReaders.

Publishers were sitting on the fence because THEY thought it was just a fad . . and they didn't apparently want to get involved heavily in the expense changing how they sold their media since they figured it wouldn't last anyway. Surprise!! Demand came roaring in and all of a sudden . . . reading became more desirable.

We the public felt that publishers were just being greedy and that pricing for eBooks should be about what was charged for a paperback. After all you really didn't get a physical copy that could be passed on to another when you were done with it . . you couldn't donate it to your local library . . . the publishers and distributors weren't stuck with unsold copies . . . and the edition never went out of production . . . it was essentially print on demand . . . and with the capability to change fonts and sizes of fonts on the eReaders themselves . . . you didn't need those special editions printed for those with visual problems. And once the book was formatted . . . It was there forever on some server.

So the issue became . . . what's a fair price? What's a fair profit?

This is what is now being debated . . .

Yes Tomerobber - very well put.

This is fascinating but it is scary too - I like something tangible that doesn't blow up when a drive gets formatted or the server crashes and burns.

Yes indeed, Big Brother is alive and well . . . and he's gaining in his language skills . . .

Every time I see a huge Digital HDTV with all it's features . . . the thought goes through my mind . . . it's not what you're watching that's important . . . it's what or who is watching YOU?

That is frightening.

Fortunately I haven't used Skype in ages . . . before MS took over. I don't use FB either . . . I like what privacy I can find . . . which is becoming harder and harder to do . . .

New Jersey Congressman published an article which certainly amazed me - based upon what Russ Holt is saying - the director of the NSA also tried to follow the whistle blower procedures and found his career ruined. I think this serious stuff - I do hope that America is paying attention.

HOLT: Liberty yields to a false security
Legislation would repeal 'surveillance state' excesses

Once again, our nation is grappling with a false choice being presented to us by the media and intelligence officials: In order to be safe, we must be willing — in President Barack Obama’s words — to accept “modest encroachments” on our civil liberties.

These claims are being advanced in the wake of the most sensational revelations about intrusive, and potentially illegal, government surveillance activities at home since the Watergate era.

I have noted numerous times throughout my career in public office my reverence for our Constitution and my admiration for the wisdom displayed by those who drafted it and argued for its passage. As we renew the debate over the almost incredible power and implications of the surveillance activities that are now in the news, we all would do well to remember what Alexander Hamilton noted in Federalist No. 8:

“Safety from external danger is the most powerful director of national conduct. Even the ardent love of liberty will, after a time, give way to its dictates. The violent destruction of life and property incident to war, the continual effort and alarm attendant on a state of continual danger, will compel nations the most attached to liberty to resort for repose and security to institutions which have a tendency to destroy their civil and political rights. To be more safe, they at length become willing to run the risk of being less free.”

With those words, Hamilton not only describes his own time, but post-9/11 America as well.

According to press reports, we are subject to the collection of phone call metadata from every American. The harvesting of To, From and Bcc data from the emails of Americans. The blanket targeting of encrypted emails or encrypted “cloud storage” data repositories of Americans. The targeting of anyone using Tor (an online anonymization capability). These are just the revelations made to date by the Guardian and The Washington Post, among others.

The Electronic Frontier Foundation, analyzing how the National Security Agency is apparently utilizing this data, said on its website: “In sum, if you use encryption they’ll keep your data forever. If you use Tor, they’ll keep your data for at least five years. If an American talks with someone outside the U.S., they’ll keep your data for five years. If you’re talking to your attorney, you don’t have any sense of privacy. And the NSA can hand over your information to the FBI for evidence of any crime, not just terrorism. All without a warrant or even a specific FISA order.”

Over the last decade, multiple individuals in the executive branch — and a few in Congress, including me — have warned repeatedly about how the radical over-reach of these programs was undermining the very foundations of our republic, even as the mass collection activities were not making us any safer. And that is the most important point: If investigators are following the Fourth Amendment probable cause guidelines, they will do a better job. Undisciplined fishing expeditions have not made us safer. Someone who recognized this fact and tried to prevent such excesses, former NSA executive Thomas Drake, was rewarded for his patriotic whistle-blowing by being prosecuted by the Department of Justice.

In Drake’s case, he and a team of NSA colleagues had actually developed a relatively cheap, very effective and privacy-compliant way of getting the kind of terrorism-related data our government needed to fight groups like al-Qaida.

Unfortunately, his discovery angered NSA’s senior management, which had invested huge sums of taxpayer money in a system that did not work and was ultimately canceled. Drake and his colleagues reported all of this to then-House Intelligence Committee chairman Porter Goss — who did exactly nothing.

Drake and his colleagues then did what we tell government employees with concerns about waste, fraud and abuse to do in these cases: report it to the Pentagon’s Inspector General. Drake did, the IG validated his claims … and then proceeded to turn him and his colleagues over to the Justice Department on bogus charges. In the end, the criminal case against him was dropped but his career in government was destroyed.

Soon, I will introduce legislation that would repeal the laws that brought us our current “surveillance state”: the Patriot Act and the FISA Amendments Act. My bill would restore the probable cause-based warrant requirement for any surveillance against an American citizen being proposed on the basis of an alleged threat to the nation. And it would, for the first time, provide genuine legal protections for the Thomas Drakes of the world.

If we hope to restore and preserve the republic that Hamilton, Patrick Henry and other Founders risked their lives to create, we must end the industrial-scale surveillance and perpetual war mentality that has been foisted on the American people in the name of “national security.”

Rep. Rush Holt represents New Jersey’s 12th Congressional District and is the former chairman of the House Select Intelligence Oversight Panel.

I think it is getting scary and scarier when you find out that the American people have been lied to by their government and by the executives of these corporations who are telling you how safe and secure their applications are for use. Privacy use to mean private and if you have had even one phone call to anybody overseas - guess what - you are now on a hard drive somewhere with all of your phone calls/emails/etc. kept for five years:

Holt stated as follows:

If an American talks with someone outside the U.S., they’ll keep your data for five years

So if you called an overseas business for your company or your daughter, son, husband or wife was traveling on business or with their school and you Skyped them, called them or even emailed them - then your data is kept for a minimum of five years.

If however you ever encrytped a message or used Tor to keep maybe your personal checking accounts and credit accounts info private from hackers - then be assured they are keeping your data for life. So much for keeping hackers out (smile)

This has got to stop - Big Brother is Watching and it is not making us safer at all.

I have to say after reading this article that you posted Christopher I have changed my mind about Obama and Holder. This was exactly the sort of thing he campaigned on and rallied against what Bush and Cheney had done. What George W and Cheney started has really put our country on the wrong path and has violated the constitution and our bill of rights. And to find out that these same programs were enhanced and the reach broadened with complete disregard to our constitution and bill of rights is abhorrent especially by Obama who rallied against them during his campaign and in his speeches. This undermines any further trust that I had. We are now living in a surveillance state as Holt describes.

I guess we now have our answer as to why Snowden did not trust or use the procedures open for whistleblowers. Look what happened to the executive directors of NSA who tried that approach according to Holt's article.

Hmmmm . . . Perhaps we should get up on our roofs and send smoke signals . . . it dissipates into the air . . . . oh I forgot . . . a government spy plane will be filming them for later use . . . Never mind.

This was in the Sunday review of the New York Times:

DOWNLOAD
Thomas A. Drake

By KATE MURPHY
Published: June 29, 2013

Thomas A. Drake is a former senior executive at the National Security Agency who, in 2006, leaked information to the press about wasteful government spending and alleged snooping on the citizenry.



READING

“Homeland” by Cory Doctorow. It’s a starkly honest view of what happens in a surveillance state.

The main character is the leader of this band of technologically clued-in teenagers fighting the tyrannical security state. People start shadowing him.

I can relate to that. I was charged under the Espionage Act and was under surveillance both physical and electronic.

I’m also reading “Endgame, Vol. 1: The Problem of Civilization,” by Derrick Jensen; “Rights at Risk,” by David K. Shipler and “Deep State: Inside the Government Secrecy Industry,” by Marc Ambinder and D. B. Grady.

These books have a message in them. There’s a whole number of people in the social media space who can move far faster than any government can and who are connecting and collaborating. We all stand for freedom.

LISTENING “Dance You Pretty” by Chad Lawson and “Kiss the Rain” by Yiruma put me in an expanded space and keep me centered.

I obviously went through a significant ordeal. I kept my freedoms. I’m the only person charged under the Espionage Act who was able to hold off the government and keep my freedoms.

Do you know what that means? Can you actually believe I kept them? I’m the only one who never went to jail. I never paid a fine. I did community service, in which I interviewed almost 50 veterans from World War II to the present day.

It was an extraordinary silver lining, interviewing veterans. These are veterans who saw combat and know the meaning of sacrifice.

WATCHING I watch just about anything “Star Trek.” In the movie “The Wrath of Khan,” Spock sacrifices his life for the crew and his best friend, Kirk, who is James Tiberius Kirk, the captain of the Enterprise. Kirk runs down to the engine room and asks, “Why?! Why?!”

And Spock answers one of the most famous lines in Star Trek lore: “The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.”

I stood up to bureaucracy and the secrecy of government and did so at great risk. I had to resign. I no longer had income or retirement. I lost all of it. I am over it.

People say, “Tom, you are so Zen about it.” Remember, I am exhibit No. 1 in this post-9/11 world that you are able to keep your freedoms. I kept them.

I can’t begin to tell you what freedom means. That’s why I’ve dedicated the rest of my life to defending life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That’s from the Declaration of Independence.

FOLLOWING

Jesselyn Radack’s blog.

She’s the director of national security and human rights at the Government Accountability Project. She was also one of my attorneys.

I had criminal defense attorneys to defend me against the government before their case collapsed under the weight of truth.

But she led advocacy and all media outreach and relations in the court of public opinion. I could not have prevailed without her counsel. It was huge.

WORKING

I work full time for Apple. I work as an expert in an Apple Store.

Kate Murphy is a journalist in Houston who writes frequently for The New York
Times.

by Cory Doctorow

by Derrick Jensen

by David K. Shipler (no photo)

by Marc Ambinder (no photo)

Dance You Pretty by Chad Lawson:
https://soundcloud.com/chad-lawson/da...

Kiss The Rain by Yiruma
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so6Exp...

Jesselyn Radack’s blog
http://www.dailykos.com/blog/jesselyn...#

Christopher - I think that is the gist of Rush Holt's article and explanation. Since I too have family overseas - we are probably all in the same boat. It appears that sadly this is true; I certainly wish that folks had the fortitude in Congress to undue this grave error in judgment. You cannot make people safer by taking away their liberties and protections. I have no idea how anybody in Congress feels that we are more safe by turning our country into a surveillance state.

Alexander Hamilton was right - the powers that be will woo us with promises of greater security while they try to take away our liberties - I would rather keep our liberties and keep the country we all hold dear.

I think one of the scariest stories that I have read to date about this terrible sordid situation is this one:

Ever since the Edward Snowden story broke, the government has been claiming that the dragnet domestic surveillance done by NSA was, in the words of president Obama and Congress, "approved by a court."

This is a disingenuous attempt to give legitimacy to a series of programs that violate at least two federal laws and the Fourth Amendment.

It leaves the false impression that an Article III federal court approved domestic surveillance programs, when it fact it was the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISA).

Worse yet, the government has shut down almost all federal lawsuits challenging secret surveillance by asserting the "state secrets" privilege.

Federal courts were created by the Constitution. The FISA Court was created by Congress. There are enormous differences between the two.

Federal courts are open to the public, whereas the FISA court operates in secret, hears only one side of the argument (the government's), and approves 99.7% of the applications it considers.

The New York Times' Eric Lichtblau, one of the journalists who broke the Pulitzer Prize-winning warrantless wiretapping story back in 2005, has written another blockbuster (or it should be) article, revealing just how expansive FISA has enlarged its own jurisdiction, creating "a parallel Supreme Court" and entire body of surveillance law that vastly broadens NSA's surveillance powers--in secret. (Source for the above article: Jesselyn Radack’s blog -
http://www.dailykos.com/blog/Jesselyn...

This is the article - it should be required reading for all voting Americans:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/07/us/...

Christopher could you also add this to the NSA thread under American Government.

Thanks

Oh dear - I had my phone hacked once when I had entered a parking garage in NYC - didn't even know it - the phone company spotted it and contacted me - I had to add some levels of security as I recall but since I have had the iPhone since it came out - I haven't given it a second thought.

Goodness - why do we have all of these things - lol?

Well that's why I don't have one . . . I hardly use my land line phone anyway . . . so I don't need the expense of monthly cell bills.

Unfortunately mine is like my tether - I need it to communicate with and from folks during the work day and family while traveling.

I haven't read much on this because I don't think we, the people, can do much at this point. The world has changed. We can't go back and we can't use antiquated legislation for things that are many orders of magnitude different than when the legislation was created. What we, the people, can do, is create, using the ever changing technology, a way to protect ourselves from the every changing technology. Unfortunately, I don't know who to trust to do that.

Well first we have learned it is not the government (smile) - only joking - but I think the companies themselves can update their code for better security.

Christopher wrote: "G, I think you are right. We cannot turn back the clock and reset how things have developed. We can see isolated cases of groups trying to return to analog technology. For example, a Russian govern..."

It is good to have your perspective, Christopher. I recently retired from a university and unfortunately, most do not listen to the recommendations of people from recent generations. In support of some schools, though, we had mandatory CS classes for two terms, and the second term included basic coding. That said, our international students from countries in the east were far more advanced in terms of technology and the sciences than our domestic students. Personally, I see this as a critical failure on the part of America. Thank you for your insights. If more spoke out, maybe we could change things.

Love the image.

Well I can talk about the fuel band and the fitbit (smile).

The Fuel Band is hip and a lot of folks have them in the states (shown in your image with the 34 on it in black ice) - you get fuel points based upon your activity level and weight and height. You can set a goal for yourself of how many fuel points you want to have as a goal per day - minimum is 2000 per day. This is not measuring any resting caloric intake or output - it is measuring pure activity - so each band shows you fuel points, steps taken, calories burned only in pure activity and the time of day. You then can upload them to a site which has software which shows your activity level throughout the day, peaks, valleys, elevations walked or run depending upon the app you choose to use with it, it also compares you against others of your gender and age group and against yourself. There are badges that you get for your achievements and this wacky animated guy named Fuely or something like that spurs you on. Good motivational tool.

Also there is an app that I use for running that feeds into the fuel band app - Nike+ Running app which is on my iPhone and nano which feeds my runs and shows them on the app - mileage, distance, location, route, - you can choose the music that you want to hear for that particular route and your power songs and whether this is a basic run, a time or distance run or some other goal..

I like it - it does steps and not mileage (the fuel band that is but the running app feeds the fuel band and does any kind of mileage or kilometer measurement you want to use) and I do feel that the fitbit is more inclusive for some things - especially in non runner mileage, sleep activities, caloric intake and weight integration through scales like Withings (which I also have).

The fuel band is like a wrist band and comes in black, black ice, white and white ice I believe - and different wrist band sizes. The fit bit you can wear undetected but then being detected is the whole idea of the fuel band in some way. (smile)