Speaker Geeks! discussion

Saw this question posted on a different topic, and I thought it would make an interesting debate.

Our nature as human beings is cannibalistic so I am going with interesting debate

Ask if we were devoid of reason. Strip away mistakes and what would a person choose? What is the basic form of innocence? If humans were inherently evil, wouldnt children be? Wouldnt they strive to do bad things? People are inherently good, but can choose to do evil things.

I think we are all born on a neutral ground. We are born with both the potential to do good and the potential to do evil. It is our outside influence and how we see ourselves as we grow up that will determine what path we walk.

I myself align with John Locke's view of every human being having been born as a "blank slate".

Apoorva wrote: "I myself align with John Locke's view of every human being having been born as a "blank slate"."

I agree with John Locke too!

Interesting comment Lia.

Hmm, there's this book I read (and I'm re-reading again), it's by Liao-Fan (he tackled about Destiny on the first part). Now, do you think (or does anyone else here think) that if we were born with "it", it means we are destined to remain that way, or if we'd try to change (if we're bad then we became good), fate would still do tricks and give us again what we were born with?

I just think that if we were born with "it" (good or evil), it is possible that we are born to live that way. (I don't believe this, but then, I want to know what Speaker Geeks people would say).

I think I'd have to agree with the blank slate view.
I also believe that you cannot remain in this state for more than a few years. By the time you learn to think, you have seen enough of the world around to change who you are.

Lia wrote: "Since we're using children as an example, I'mma be a devil's advocate and ask,

What about children who were raised in perfectly normal homes (and environments) and grow up to be serial killers?

..."


for children like that...environment contributes too. the external factors like school, church, media, society...they affect our way of thinking. i think..

Jean Jacques Rousseau, the most read Education author, defends that Mankind is naturally Good and all children are born pure, but as they find corruption and bad examples along the way, they become what they are imputed to be; this thesis is usually called "The Wild Good Men". I absolutely disagree. I think the natural, non-educated child tends to wildeness, selfishness and violence. I beleive only discipline and the resolution that the good acts shall be awarded and bad ones punished can TRY to bring up a good person, even though that is not a general rule.

I think that humans aren't inherently anything. Who's to say what is good and what is bad? I read an article once about humans using rationalization to justify their actions. No one thinks they're evil.

Agreeing with Ella.
When people are born they're just a blank slate, aren't they? It's what they learn and experience and around them that causes them to be whatever they are.

@H99
But that doesnt make them good or evil. It just makes them addicted to a drug.

@H99
Whoops. This forum is hard to understand sometimes.

@Lia
I agree. But then as the children age and start to learn more, they start to formulate their own beliefs that can mix with or erase their parents influenced beliefs.

@Lia
Definitely. Mine and my mother's beliefs (she's a single parent) were very similar for a long time. But as I've been learning more about feminism, psychology, and realizing societies flaws on my own, I've started to formulate my own beliefs and outlooks on life.

@Lia
Yeah, I dont know how my mum does it. Juggling the bills every month, and dealing with me (urgh) and my sister.

I agree with you though. Morals are learnt, not born with. Like my friend says in a speech about gay rights: homophobia isnt natural, it has to be taught from somewhere.

no i dont think that Good and Evil is something you can inherit; It is not a gene that can get passed on to the offspring of an organism.

We've been there, done that.
We're both.

What's the definition of "good" or "evil"?

Xdyj wrote: "What's the definition of "good" or "evil"?"

Hmm, good question.

..I dunno how to answer it. Anyone else wanna take a shot?

@Xdyj
Evil vs good is a dichotomy. A false dichotomy in my opinion. It changes from person to person. An event, or even the simplest of acts is so complex that it cannot simply be placed into one of two categories. It can't really be placed in any categories at all. Sorry if this wasn't the answer you were looking for.

Lo wrote: "Xdyj wrote: "What's the definition of "good" or "evil"?"

Hmm, good question.

..I dunno how to answer it. Anyone else wanna take a shot?"

I don't think "good" or "evil" exists. Only perception so I think everyone will have their own view on what is "good" or "evil" according to their morales and beliefs.

What's the definition of "good" or "evil"?

We created those words,so we also came up with the definitions. However, I'm not sure of their absolute 'meaning', think no one does. There's no perception involved in evil acts; such as child-molestation; because, in our basic-human-social-norms it's pure evil. We belong in this dimension, so we live by certain moral-ethical codes; so over thinking such things can be very perplexing. Philosophers tried over thinking few times but they couldn't reach beyond the scope of human minds; some on their way killed themselves out of frustration.

So, humans are destroying the world, nature, themselves etc day by day; so by our definition we're more evil than good.

Som wrote: "What's the definition of "good" or "evil"?

We created those words,so we also came up with the definitions. However, I'm not sure of their absolute 'meaning', think no one does. There's no percept..."

But other species also interact with & shape the environment & many of them will also go extinct in the future, do you think they can also be judged as "evil" or "good"?

But other species also interact with & shape the environment & many of them will also go extinct in the future, do you think they can also be judged as "evil" or "good"?

Nice one... (:

Think of good and evil as two circles barely touching each other, the circles being our 'made up' codes and conducts for determining who's/what's good/evil. The determining acts are mostly unanimous. It doesn't take much to drift away from one circle to another. If I understood your question correctly, then, suppose we (as in majority) can only decide what's good or evil with our combined consciousness, we set norms, standards, values to see if good and bad being properly justified; we decide the boundary of those circles. If an animal say a vicious tiger attacks a village killing bunch of people then we act as it's survival, end up killing the tiger. But It may be the 'long sighted' evil but 'short sighted' good. By long sighted I meant extinction of tigers and by short sighted, fear of extinction of humans or simply, an act of survival.

You must have heard of 'morality in murder'. By generic-ethical standards the definition of both as actions are kind of conflicting. Viz: Someone's driving the car, the brake fails, then end up being in a situation whether to kill 4 people or kill 2, as 'only' two options in hands. He/She would definitely kill 2 people, that's when the morality comes. But end of the day people are killed anyways. What if there were 1 person on both sides? What if at one side there was a person suffering in pain with disease and at the other side there's a animal with its family of other 10 animals. There are many examples such as this that may only need your conscience's state of what's good and what's evil, what's moral and what is immoral. Since you made the circle, you are only accountable for manipulating it and wait to see how the majority are comparing it with their set of circles, if it matches with the majority you're good/evil and your circles are good/evil accordingly.

No 'humanly' system is perfect, in fact, it's far from it. If it was, there wouldn't be any debates.

Somurai wrote: "But other species also interact with & shape the environment & many of them will also go extinct in the future, do you think they can also be judged as "evil" or "good"?

Nice one... (:

Think of g..."

That's a really good way of thinking. It also confused me a little bit, but really good.

Lo.....thanks; welcome back. (:

H99......4 Hitlers of course lol
check this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBdfcR...