Language & Grammar discussion

In keeping with the recent conversations about languages disappearing I think that we should celebrate some of the words that languages other than English have that have never found a common everyday word form in English.

I'll start with with a very Germanic word that I heard years ago and seldom even find in dictionaries anymore.

Knauss - Lost in the mists of time this word has become known primarily as a Germanic family name.

However according to an old lady that I knew in St. Petersburg Florida, knauss used to mean something along the lines of "ready, willing and able" not just capable or well wishing, but all three things at once.

I'm guessing that it's fallen out of favor because there are so few real-world examples any more.

By the way... Having a Germanic last name (Knapp) that started as a trade name has made me more than a bit sympathetic to words that have lost currency.

Knapp is believed to have derived from knapper: a maker of arrow heads.

Sure English has Bakers, Taylors, Smiths, and Millers galore, but how many of you make the trade connection when thinking of Cooper or Fletcher?

Hmm...or Skinner

Stephen, as soon as you mentioned the definition of your name, I thought I'd contribute mine. It is "Prunkl," from an archaic Germanic word. Years ago, I found "prunk" in an old German dictionary I bought in a used bookstore. It's a noun meaning pomp, splendour, ostentation, magnificence, and with the diminutive "l" I suppose it means "little splendour." It's a rather ugly word in English, so it makes me smile to think of its somewhat nicer meaning in German.

I recently read a book by a Norwegian author named Knaussgard. I guess I now know a thing or two about his name....

On strange trade names, Arrowsmith, Archer, Carter, Glover, Milner, Wainwright (as in Constable's The Hay Wain).

More on the topic, the bread "Pumpernickel" has no English equivalent, though I do believe it can easily be translated.

Of course readers of Mutiny on the Bounty could point out that Fletcher Christian's Christian name was Fletcher but that's just too silly...

I don't know whether this is true of Mr Christian, but it is still common - particularly among Scottish and Irish Presbyterians, but not only these - to use surnames, often those of close relatives, as Christian names.

I am ashamed to admit that I am partial to schadenfreude.

A former German ambassador to London once appeared on the BBC's Today programme. He said, "You British have a word for taking pleasure in others' misfortunes. You call it Schadenfreude". His little joke.

Ach those Germans! I've never taken anything they say at face value... ever since that cartoon German on Johnny Quest had those two wolfhounds named Sturm and Drang

No matter how many times I look them up, I forget the meanings of German words that have migrated to English. Schadenfreude sounds like a German governess. Ach!

Newengland wrote: "No matter how many times I look them up, I forget the meanings of German words that have migrated to English. Schadenfreude sounds like a German governess. Ach!"

Kindergarten are suspenders for lederhosen. If you remember that you should be fine, and have no angst over it.

You're a big help.

Yeah -- Santa's gonna find out who's naughty or gnauss.

Or who's naughty or gneiss.

Gneiss one, Ruth.

Cecily wrote: "I am ashamed to admit that I am partial to schadenfreude."

so am I--well, using the word Schadenfreude, not feeling it!

Great little book on words in other languages with no equivalent English translation--They Have a Word for It: A Lighthearted Lexicon of Untranslatable Words & Phrases by Howard Rheingold.
Is he a Wagner fan? :)

I like this one, taken from your review:

A cute one: Drachenfutter--also from German: when a husband brings home a gift or bouquet to his wife in apology for something he's said or done. [Drachenfutter=dragon fodder]

Dragon fodder, indeed! We've (husbands, I mean) all been in that position before...

I'd translate it as "Dumbass Contrition."

Joanne wrote: "I'd translate it as "Dumbass Contrition.""

Hehehe

Hold on, here. Sometimes the ladies have to eat crow and beg forgiveness too. Well, maybe not beg. No man insists on such truck. We just shrug and say, "Whatever...."

Newengland wrote: "Hold on, here. Sometimes the ladies have to eat crow and beg forgiveness too. Well, maybe not beg. No man insists on such truck. We just shrug and say, "Whatever....""

Giggle!

Newengland wrote: "I like this one, taken from your review:

A cute one: Drachenfutter--also from German: when a husband brings home a gift or bouquet to his wife in apology for something he's said or done. [Drachenf..."

I got a big smile on my face when I ran across that one!!

Eat crow, NE ? How I hate that expression. We had a crow (named Crover)for 24 years. A valued family member. I still miss him.

If it's any consolation, they are one of my favorite birds due to their obvious intelligence and communication skills.

(Yes, for adorable, I like the chickadees who will land in your hand for food, but you have to respect the resourceful crow....)

Newengland wrote: "If it's any consolation, they are one of my favorite birds due to their obvious intelligence and communication skills.

(Yes, for adorable, I like the chickadees who will land in your hand for food..."

Ok then

Joanne wrote: "Eat crow, NE ? How I hate that expression. We had a crow (named Crover)for 24 years. A valued family member. I still miss him."

Yes but did he have his own perch? Maybe in Crover's corner?

Crows are very intelligent birds. I actually had a pet crow for a short time when I was in sixth grade. He really did follow me home. He was obviously well trained by somebody but we never found out who. I was not equipped to take care of him though so he was quickly fostered to someone who could.

Crover had a big aviary off the kitchen. He could watch me prepare food, and pancakes were his favorite. Sometimes he'd push the window open, steal jewelry and peck his way into cereal boxes. He liked to pull the threads from quilts. He got away with a lot.

From Korean:

Hoesik: The event of going out for drinks with coworkers, usually formally organized.

Wangda: The victim of bullying. (Strangely, there doesn't seem to be a word for bully. The focus--at least the lexical focus--is on the target, not the instigator).

The Portugese word Nefelibata, which means: "cloud-walker"; one who lives in the clouds of their own imagination or dreams, or one who does not obey the conventions of society, literature, or art

Love that word, Lilac, as well as your name.

Nefelibata = Don Quixote?

I just adore the Portuguese word "saudade." It's one of my favorite words in the world.

It means to have a deeply nostalgic, melancholic longing for a thing that one loves dearly, and may have an undercurrent of knowing that the cherished object or person has gone missing and may never return, such as a MIA loved one, or one's childhood.

Bone-chilling good word.

How do you pronounce it?

Newengland wrote: "How do you pronounce it?"
I've heard people pronounce it like "So-dahd".

This should help.
http://www.forvo.com/word/saudade/

Here is a Lakota word I like:
wo'econla
It is a verb. It means "to consider something hard work, but it is not." The apostrophe represents a glottal stop.
People wo'econla all the time, when they don't take out the trash, or put off other easy tasks.

Ha! Exactly what my kids used to do when I told them to pick up their rooms.

Ruth wasn't the room heavy to pick up? That is not an easy task, except for superman or woman.

Carol wrote: "Ruth wasn't the room heavy to pick up?

Not for my kids!

When my oldest was a teen, his room was a mess. I went in one rainy night to close the window. He woke up and said, "You better not be stepping on any of my important clothes."
Chutzpah is the word for that.

Important? Oh my!

When I was in Spain, I learned the word "panificar," which is to convert flour into bread. Not "bake" or "bread," but "convert flour into bread." Not really lofty, philosophically, but interesting in its specificity.

I also find the color distinctions fascinating. In some Slavic languages, there are two different words for blue, kind of like sky blue and dark blue. If you use the wrong one, people look at you kind of like if you said the sky was yellow.

Have you been to Slavic lands, Melinda? It's an unusual destination!

Ruth wrote: "In some Slavic languages, there are two different words for blue, kind of like sky blue and dark blue."

Slavic languages, well at least Russian, are a bit different other ways, too.

Any male over here who happens to have red hair is automativally nicknamed "Bluey"

Newengland wrote: "Have you been to Slavic lands, Melinda? It's an unusual destination!"

Yes. I lived in Poland for one year and the Czech Republic for two, teaching ESL. I love them. In fact, I'm considering going back to the Czech Republic again.

And Yes, Tytti, all those Slavic languages have lots of interesting things. I think it's funny the way even names decline (change form according to case/function in sentence). Even foreign names. I remember, in Poland, listening to Polish radio and them talking about President Bushem (not sure of the spelling), and in the Czech Republic, I got a kick out of the Harry Potter books written by J.K. Rowlingova.

Melinda wrote: "I think it's funny the way even names decline (change form according to case/function in sentence)."

Hmm... you are talking to a Finn, we have 15 cases, so I don't think it's that funny...
http://depressingfinland.tumblr.com/p...

Fifteen cases? Czech has 7, and I thought that was a lot. Wow. When you speak Finnish, do you sometimes make errors in case, like English speakers make errors with subject verb agreement? I can't imagine how you could not.