THE WORLD WAR TWO GROUP discussion

The Must read book or books of WW2:

Rick: It looks like my house. I have three book rooms and still growing.

I started this new thread so members can tell the group which book on the Second World War was a must read for them.

Which book resonated with them so much that it became the book that they always recommend to others to read.

Also members can post and discuss a book or books that they have waiting to be read that they must read.

For me the book or books that I MUST read are David Glantz's trilogy on Stalingrad.



and and volume III when its published by David M. Glantz

I can't answer the question of a "Must Read." I would have to select a Must Read British, MR Eastern Front, MR Pacific, MR Aviation, MR Naval, MR Desert, MR Asia, etc.

You can give us a few must reads if you like Manray9 :)

Manray9 wrote: "Rick: It looks like my house. I have three book rooms and still growing."

We must have very similar houses!

:)

Here's one -- a Must Read WW II fiction:

The Cruel Sea
by Nicholas Monsarrat.

An excellent suggestion!

Here's another -- a Must Read for WW II Asia:

Defeat into Victory

by William Slim (1st Viscount Slim)

That's one for me too, down the track.

With so many must-reads, someone has to tell me about a miracle drug that lets me live to age two-hundred. My, so far, anticipated age of one-hundred won't do.

Blimey that's a great topic but very hard to single so if you won't mind I'll offer a few over time.

By the way I like the pic very much - I also have a few piles of books that have "emigrated" from my shelves :)

First ones for me on or about people's experiences and memoirs (will come back to strategy, official histories and wider histories later) - hopefully the books below will also interest others who many not have read them:

by George MacDonald Fraser

by Bill D. Ross

by Geoffrey Wellum

by Ben Macintyre

by John Masters

by T. E. Jonsson

by Geoffrey Powell

by Martin Lindsay

by Donald R. Burgett

by George Wilson

by George Blackburn

Geevee wrote: "Blimey that's a great topic but very hard to single so if you won't mind I'll offer a few over time.

By the way I like the pic very much - I also have a few piles of books that have "emigrated" ..."

We're in tune with these, especially Masters and MacDonald Fraser.

Manray9 wrote: "Here's another -- a Must Read for WW II Asia:

Defeat into Victory

by William Slim (1st Viscount Slim)"

I have read this book a number of times and it is very good. Slim is (in my not so humble opinion) one of the best battlefield commanders the British put forth during the war. However a word of warning. Slim has a tendency later in the book to overstate Japanese capability.

Unfortunately not a stand alone book. You have to know something about the Battle of Midway before reading. It is however one of the best books on the Pacific I have ever read. It is probably the only book I have ever read that explains how radar works and the differences between US and Japanese radar without making my brain hurt.




An amazing book on the Battle of the Bulge, probably one of the easiest to read as well. Comprehensive and written by someone that was actually there.




A book that tells a fascinating story in three parts.
First it looks at the Germans moving through Holland and Belgium to take the Lower Rhine crossings, then it looks at Market Garden and then at the Rhine Crossings by Hodges, Patton and Montgomery.




D'Este Takes a look at Sicily. An amazingly easy read and a deeply incisive look at the troubling lack of unified direction that lead to this being an empty victory all around, but militarily since so many German troops escaped and politically with the mishandling of the surrender of Italy.



Probably the best Biography of Patton I have ever read.



I have been told that Amateurs study tactics and Professionals study Logistics. If that is the case than this is the least boring book I have ever found on the logistics of the war. It is also an amazing read.



A book with a surprising Conclusion in regards to why the Allies won the war.




An interesting if not always favorable look at the Carrier war in the Pacific.




One of the first books to attempt to look at the Japanese Navy through the eyes of the Japanese. A very good read.

Dj wrote: "Manray9 wrote: "Here's another -- a Must Read for WW II Asia:

Defeat into Victory

by William Slim (1st Viscoun..."

Although Montgomery receives the lion's share of the credit for British military accomplishments in WW II, Slim has many supporters. I am one. Overestimation of enemy capabilities isn't unusual, in WW II or other conflicts. If Slim did so, MacArthur and Nimitz were also guilty in the war's later stages -- that's a large part of why we dropped The Bomb. Other examples: the U.S. seriously overestimated Soviet capabilities in the Seventies and Eighties and Union officers (e.g., McClellan and Halleck) overestimated Confederate strength in 1862.

Manray9 wrote: "Dj wrote: "Manray9 wrote: "Here's another -- a Must Read for WW II Asia:

Defeat into Victory

by William Slim (..."

Very true, although I forget where it was that I read it, I think it was on a book about British Generals, they mention Slim and his book and say that some of his overestimation was tongue in cheek. I got the impression that they were saying that he was trying to make the Army look better after the embarrassments of the opening stages of the War. Not exactly something that was to be unexpected.

Dj wrote: "Manray9 wrote: "Dj wrote: "Manray9 wrote: "Here's another -- a Must Read for WW II Asia:

Defeat into Victory

b..."

I think Slim and many other 14th Army vets felt slighted after the war. They believed too much adulation went to Monty and the men of the European theater.

Manray9 wrote: "Dj wrote: "Manray9 wrote: "Dj wrote: "Manray9 wrote: "Here's another -- a Must Read for WW II Asia:

Defeat into Victory

[bookcover:Defeat Into Victory: Battling Japan in Burma and India, 1942-194..."


Well they were pretty much overlooked, so can't say I would blame them for feeling a little slighted.

I too think Slim a fine commander, and indeed Burma veterans I spoke to fondly recalled him and his concern for them whilst taking the war to Japan.

I am also a supporter of Wavell, who I felt did very well in the Middle East and the massive geographical area he had to contend with, whilst quality and quantity of troops and equipment was not as he or others would like or allowed.

He was however fated by Churchill's dislike of him (even though Eden and others (including Rommel) felt he was doing a good job in 1940/41) and the political decisions to support Greece. This led to a serious move of priorities and losses of capability in the desert as men and materiel were moved and new plans had to be be hastily laid, all the while whilst political decisions on deployments and agreements remained fluid: thus a defeat in Greece and Crete with terrible losses for all three armed services and then more poor results in the desert because of that distraction and those losses.

Wavell was also a good penultimate viceroy of India in building better relations with key (Indian) politicians and paving the way for Mountbatten as the last viceroy and Britain's departure.

That said from my reading Slim felt Wavell, who he saw as part of the old guard, did not perform well as CinC in India (41-43).

Manray9 wrote: "Dj wrote: "Manray9 wrote: "Dj wrote: "Manray9 wrote: "Here's another -- a Must Read for WW II Asia:

Defeat into Victory

[bookcover:Defeat Into Victory: Battling Japan in Burma and India, 1942-194..."

Indeed correct gents...colloquially known by themselves as the Forgotton Army/Forgotten 14th. It is also oft forgotten that many of the troops in Slim's army were Indian and (black) Africans who performed very well with great courage.

Manray9 wrote: "Rick: It looks like my house. I have three book rooms and still growing."

I turned my huge laundry room into a library

Dj wrote: "

Unfortunately not a stand alone book. You have to know something about the Battle of Midway before reading. It is howeve..."

I have to agree that D'Este's biography is the best on Patton. One book I'd add as a "Must Read" is Ernie Pyle's:




I'm probably a bit biased because I'm a journalist, but Pyle managed to bring the common soldier's experiences home to the reader.

Now I'm just waiting for someone to add

by Robert Hays

OK, I'm a bit biased here, too--but trust me, this is a good read and I can personally vouch that it is honest and accurate. I know the guy who wrote it.

Good for you Robert why not... :)

Robert wrote: "Dj wrote: "

Unfortunately not a stand alone book. You have to know something about the Battle of Midway before reading. I..."

I have Brave Men and dipped into it before getting distracted by something else. I recall it as being well written, but not in a style that appeals to me. Although I also don't like reading the paper, so that might be it. I will have to go back and finish it soon.

Geevee wrote: "I too think Slim a fine commander, and indeed Burma veterans I spoke to fondly recalled him and his concern for them whilst taking the war to Japan.

I am also a supporter of Wavell, who I felt d..."

I don't generally consider Wavell a battlefield commander, but he was very good at what he did.

Robert wrote: "Dj wrote: "

Unfortunately not a stand alone book. You have to know something about the Battle of Midway before reading. I..."

I think I am going to start looking for your book. It is certainly within my realm of interest.

Geevee wrote: "I too think Slim a fine commander, and indeed Burma veterans I spoke to fondly recalled him and his concern for them whilst taking the war to Japan.

I am also a supporter of Wavell, who I felt d..."

Wavell suffered due to the failures of his political leaders -- a problem familiar to many different armies. He performed much better in action than another British general who had similar issues:

Time Unguarded by Edmund Ironside

I was impressed with Ironside's memoirs.

and a book just added to my TBR thank you.

Some great books and discussions coming out here at the moment!

A few books that for me became 'must' reads of WW2 were these:


by Geoffrey Wellum

by Gottlob Herbert Bidermann

by David M. Glantz

by Robert Kershaw

by Paul Ham

by Julian Becton

by Eugene B. Sledge

by Joseph H. Alexander

by Cornelius Ryan

These are all books that have stuck with me for various reasons since I have first read them. They are the books that I tend to recommend to people to read to get a better understanding of the nature of the war. I have more to share later.

Another book that I have never forgotten and use to always recommend to others even though it has been questioned about its authenticity (which I think has been resolved) is "The Forgotten Soldier".

by Guy Sajer

I agree Rick a very good book (and your mentioning it may start again the was it fact/fiction debate!)

Geevee wrote: "and a book just added to my TBR thank you."

Geevee: I would appreciate your views on Auchinleck. I have a copy of John Connell's bio, which I haven't read yet. It is the Cassell 1st edition from 1959 in hardcover. I bought it ten years ago on-line from a bookseller in Glasgow. Connell wrote a bio of Wavell too. I just added the Auk bio to the Goodreads database.


Auchinleck: A Critical Biography by John Connell

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "A few books that for me became 'must' reads of WW2 were these:


by Geoffrey Wellum

[..."

I have been reading With the Old Breed off and on, so far I can't say much, he just got to basic training. Well I can't say much save for the fact that it is much better written then most 1st person accounts I have read.

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "A few books that for me became 'must' reads of WW2 were these:
.."

I agree with these ..

by Joseph H. Alexander

by Eugene B. Sledge

haven't had the pleasure of the rest, might have to add a few to my TBR list.

My list would also include this...

by Michael Norman

Robert wrote: "Dj wrote: "

Unfortunately not a stand alone book. You have to know something about the Battle of Midway before reading. I..."

Another good combat journalist of WW II was Richard Tregaskis who wrote Guadalcanal Diary.

I saw a second-hand copy of Guadalcanal Diary the other day and was thinking about buying it. I may have to re-visit the shop this weekend and check it out again if its still there.

The movie isn't bad for its time. William Bendix played a marine. He was only too old by 20 years!

I'm not too sure if I have ever seen the movie, I will need to hire a copy on DVD and watch it I think :)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0035957/

Manray9 wrote: "Geevee wrote: "and a book just added to my TBR thank you."

Geevee: I would appreciate your views on Auchinleck. I have a copy of John Connell's bio, which I haven't read yet. It is the Cassell ..."

Manray9 sorry I missed this. The Auk is interesting in that he was well liked by his men and his staff but I think he suffered as he was "Indian Army", although that held him in good stead later in India as CinC on Wavell's move to be Viceroy. I think Slim thought more of him than Wavell if I recall.
His chance in Norway in 1940 is to my mind neither here nor there as I'm not convinced any commander could have made a good fist of the British plans and operation. As commander in the desert I think we was okay and was helped greatly in his appointment by his strong performance in Iraq - whilst Churchill grumbled about Wavell eventually firing him for the Auk. I find of interest the discussions on how much of Monty's second Alamein battle plan was the Auk's and of course how Monty, ever the self-publicist, beat not only Rommel but rescued the Middle-East from poor planning and command. I must read Warner's and Connell's books.

Geevee wrote: "Manray9 wrote: "Geevee wrote: "and a book just added to my TBR thank you."

Geevee: I would appreciate your views on Auchinleck. I have a copy of John Connell's bio, which I haven't read yet. It..."

Thanks. When reading memoirs of former Indian Army officers such as John Masters, John Prendergast or Roly Grimshaw, I have come across references to the subtle discrimination against them by British Regulars. Many turned out to be great soldiers -- the Auk included. Similar feelings were prevalent against Commonwealth officers too, I believe? In the history of the U.S. Army, West Pointers were often at odds with volunteer or militia officers.

I think this rivalry/superiority is evident or prevalent in most armies; and probably accentuated greatly in large wartime organisations where civilians were entwined with regulars and "colonials". Some of the finest officers were commonwealth officers and many today are probably unaware of the CanLoan scheme in WWII which saw Canadian junior officers serve with British units to help with shortages and give experience - from my reading they were in the main very successful and liked by the men.

Geevee wrote: "I think this rivalry/superiority is evident or prevalent in most armies; and probably accentuated greatly in large wartime organisations where civilians were entwined with regulars and "colonials"...."

Didn't the British Army, at least until WW II, endure issues of social stratification among the officer corps too? Weren't cavalry and Guards regiments considered superior to Line regiments? Byron Farwell in:

Mr. Kipling's Army

writes that all regiments had a social ranking down to the Manchester Regiment, which was "reputed to be the bottom rung of the social scale among regiments of the line. It was even said that its officers could live on their pay." I have seen similar commentary in:

How the Regiments Got Their Nicknames by Tim Carew.

Indeed - in modern circles this is now not so, although many titled gentlemen (Lords, baronets etc) still serve in the Household division and cavalry regiments.

Of course inter regimental/corps rivalry still remains so everyone knows cavalry regiments are far superior to all others ;)

I think you may be off the mark there Geevee, everyone knows that Infantry are 'the Queen of the battlefield' :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infantry

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "I think you may be off the mark there Geevee, everyone knows that Infantry are 'the Queen of the battlefield' :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infantry"

My youngest son is an artilleryman. His battery's nickname is "The Battle Kings" because the guns are the "King of the Battlefield."

I'm not too sure what nick names they have in the US for artilley but in Australia we call them 'drop-shorts' :)

Gun bunnies, red legs - among others