EDCMOOC discussion

[Had to place this under 'General' as 'The Great Wall of Mars' doesn't show in 'topics'.]

What thoughts and feelings in response to Alastair Reynolds' Great Wall of Mars

for our next #edcmchat Nov 3 GMT 21:30-22:30

(downloadable from http://en.bookfi.org/book/277568) -

looking forward to your comments

to form Questions from & receive food for discussion.

We need a moderator! Anyone?

I might find it difficult on 2/3 Nov - have family staying over/birthday celebrations and not sure where I'll be in the evening as yet. Will definitely check in to the discussion though but might be via phone!

Anyone else fancy a go?

I'll do it!

Great stuff! Thanks Chris.

Yay too ~ Thanks Chris!

thanks for the link too!

Thanks for the book link!

This story took me a while to get into, but then it burst into life with some really interesting scenes, ideas, thoughts, and questions. I've just been jotting my notes and thoughts down here, trying to pick out some themes & questions. What do you think?

1. "I don’t think we can begin to guess the thinking of a true hive-mind society". Can we?

2. "There was no way the Conjoiners could not have seen this for themselves, but it seemed inhuman not to acknowledge what had happened". Here we touch on the very human characteristic of empathy - could we be hunan without these emotions? Have we lost any since the advent of the internet? (eg trolling?), or gained any? (eg altruism via Just Giving pages of Claire Squires, for example?). Later on we get this passage talking about the character of Felka:
“You don’t understand,” Galiana said. “You’re placing too much humanity behind her eyes. Keeping the Wall alive is the single most important fact of her universe—more important than love, pain, death—anything you or I would consider definitively human.”

3. Galiana squeezed his hand and an instant later he knew something of Transenlightenment. The experience was shocking; not because it was painful or fearful, but because it was profoundly and totally new. He was literally thinking in ways that had not been possible microseconds earlier". Does this remind you of the psychedelic trip that Will took in Huxley's "Island"?

4. "The formerly gray walls oozed beguiling patterns; as if a dark forest had suddenly become enchanted. Information hung in veils in the air...“You can perceive things now,” Galiana said. “But none of it will mean much to you. You’d need years of education, or deeper neural machinery for that—building cognitive layers. We read all this almost subliminally.”
How much of learning or knowledge comes from the education we get? (maybe defined as passive reading and listening). And how much from intuition or sense (maybe defined as active seeing and doing)?

5. “I don’t understand,” Clavain said. “I thought we destroyed the Wall; completely killed its
systems.” “No,” Galiana said. “You only ever injured it. Stopped it from growing, and from managing its own repair-processes correctly…but you never truly killed it.”
This made me think of nature & the environment and the effect technology has on this. The Great Wall of Mars is created by technology, but also susceptible to death and decay - it needs looking after. So what are the implications? Are we currently destroying a finely balanced ecosystem? Or is this all just part of natural evolution? Do we control nature, or does it control us?

6. The character of Felka raised questions of human/machine. On the one hand she seems very human - vulnerable, childlike, lonely - but at the same time very trans-human or powerful - she is the one who is keeping them and Wall alive.
"the Wall’s just a machine. Which means if Felka recognized kinship with it…what would that make her?” "“Someone lonely, that’s all”

Excellent questions Chris. I too got quite into this story after a few pages. The quote in 1. stood out for me also. The implication was that once he'd had technology implanted he'd actually be happier. The grey walls tranformed into colours etc. reminded my of what it is to perceive, what is reality and so on. Will take another look tomorrow (getting late!)

the transformation that Felka underwent was the most resonant with me. she seemed to have autistic traits unable to connect with human wmotions but with a sort of genius associated with some people on the autistic spectrum. the connection that clavain made with her and her subsequent development in the next story. sorry i couldn't resist reading on!

Also, question 5 - what does the wall represent? Is it civilisation, the Earth?
What's the next story?
Ta, Kirstie

I liked the connection between Felka and Clavain. In many ways they are similar and for both the Wall comes down at the end.

Q1:Thinking of the sory's title, what does the wall represent? Is it civilisation,or Earth itself? Nature/environemnt? #edcmchat

Q2:"You’re placing too much humanity behind her eyes".What did Felka represent to you? Was she stronger or weaker than the others?#edcmchat

Q3:What about the idea of Transenlightenment in the story? Has the hive mind/post human improved humanity? #edcmchat

Q4:"She looked deep into his eyes & reached out a hand. But there was nothing he could do to help her" Is the story all dystopian?#edcmchat

Q5 "the walls oozed beguiling patterns as if a dark forest had suddenly become enchanted" Is there a spiritual side to the story? #edcmchat