Zombies! discussion

Any Walking Dead fans? What did you think of the last episode? I am totally Team Carol. One of the things I love about the show is what a great job it does in blurring the line between right and wrong. I found myself being horrified by what Carol did but then I thought, if I had people to protect, would I do the same thing? Do you think the fact that she was a woman made the actions more disturbing?

Can't wait to hear everyone's thoughts!

Totally Team Carol here. In fact, I think the group could better stand losing Rick than Carol. I don't agree with what she did but I understand her thinking.

Let's look at their reactions to loss. Carol loses her daughter, the only person she really had, and she toughens up, learns to be strong and teaches others how to be strong as well. She takes care of the group, not only by becoming a warrior but by seeing that the practical details of keeping people alive are taken care of.

Rick loses Lori and takes a long stroll down the main streets of Crazy Town. He abandons the care of his children, whose safety is supposedly the reason he can't trust Carol to remain in the group. He endangers the group (while still ostensibly their leader) by doing stupid things like wandering outside the fence alone to chase down his hallucination of Lori.

Carol's decision to kill the two sick people wasn't a good one, in my opinion, but at least she made a decision and acted. Rick has made plenty of bad decisions himself, then spends a seeming eternity waffling over it.

He seems intent on refusing to accept that things have changed in their world. I get his wanting to keep their humanity and decency but you have to adapt it to the world they live in now.

They keep bringing up Shane as the example of Rick having killed someone himself. I agree that it isn't the same thing as what Carol did at all. That was self defense.

I'd like to point out that Rick was one of the ones calling for that kid from the town near Hershel's farm. And why? To protect the group.

Again, I don't think Carol should have taken it on herself to make that decision to kill the two but I also don't think it was Rick's place to take it upon himself to banish her either. He gave up the Ricktatorship. It's not up to him to make these decisions.

Yeah, it would have caused a division among the group if he told them what she'd done but if he tells them what he's done (and I suspect he will), it's also going to cause a division.

Personally, I wouldn't tell them what she did. I'm guessing he's going to take a moral high ground that he can't keep this secret from them. I call shennanigans on that since it didn't seem to bother him to keep secret that everyone who dies is going to turn, which is something the group actually needed to know.

To be honest, I'm not even 100% certain Carol actually did it. My friends who are fellow WD fans and I are leaning toward the possibility that she's covering for one of the kids.

We could easily see Carl doing it but also think that Carl would have come right out and said that he did. We lean more toward Lizzie, the older of the two girls Carol sort of "inherited".

We think Carol's involved to some degree, probably that she came in on her doing it and that Carol's the one who dragged the bodies out and burned them. Maybe even finished them off if Lizzie had done a poor job of trying to kill them. The burning could have been not only because of the infection but to hide a poor attempt at stabbing them to death.

Unless there's a big twist, it does seem that Lizzie is probably the one feeding rats to the walkers at the fence line.

My, how I do ramble and babble on when you get me going....

Agreed, agreed, agreed.
I think the difference between Rick and Carol is that Rick hasn't lost his children. I think he is struggling to maintain a sense of normalcy and pre-apocalyptic morality for his children. Even though he did agree to execute that guy near Hershel's farm, it was ultimately Shane who did it because he knew Rick wouldn't... he couldn't. It's endearing but if we are talking about survival... unsustainable.

The theory about Carol's "daughter" killing them is interesting! I think it's unlikely because how would a little girl drag two adult bodies - unless Carol walked in on it and helped her... hmmm. I don't know. I think the psychology behind the last episode demonstrated that Carol was ready, willing and capable of committing those murders. That would be an interesting twist! I do agree Lizzie is the one feeding the rats.

On another note, they better not kill Glen! My heart may have actually stopped beating when he started coughing lol.

That's why I think Carol is at least involved to some degree. I don't see that kid being able to move the bodies either. After all, there's a reason people refer to "dead weight". I also think it would be harder for Lizzie than Carol to get hold of the gas to burn the bodies, although it's TV so that logic may not apply.

I don't totally rule out that Carol did actually do the killings herself. I think it's more in character for her to let them actually die and then prevent them from...returning but I could see her finishing the job neatly if she came in on Lizzie doing it badly.

That would also explain how easily she put Lizzie in the quarantine if she knew the kid had had such close contact with infected people.

I hope Glen survives too. I don't think they'll kill him off but, then again, in this show no one's guaranteed safe passage.

Team Carol all the way. I want her to come back! She is one of my favorite characters and I love her relationship with Daryl. IF she killed them I disagree with her decision. They were away from everyone else and most likely would have died soon. I would have enforced a strict quarantine though. Rick is starting to hack me off. He had no trouble giving Shane chance after chance, even knowing he had killed poor Otis, Rick never told the group and never did anything about it. Rick's son also killed a surrendering teen - no problemo - but suddenly Carol is the incarnation of evil? BS!

Agreed, Thia! I'm looking forward to Darryl's reaction. Although, he has been getting pretty cozy with Michonne.

Michonne and Daryl would put my two favs together - and what a team. Carol ( third fav ) can be their "sister" ;) I'd love M and D getting smoochy.

If Daryl does anything besides freak out and go look for Carol I'm going to be PO'd. I can't imagine him just going "oh well". We'll see in a few days I guess! I'm kinda hoping he just strangles Rick.

Thia wrote: "Rick's son also killed a surrendering teen"

Someone moving slowly towards you, pointing a gun at you, is NOT surrendering.

He should have put down the gun if he wanted to surrender.

You're right Randy. I'd have shot him too. But Rick only knows what Hershal saw - and he obviously believed him based on taking the gun away etc - so according to Rick he shot the guy surrendering. Hershal was very clear about that and forced Rick to listen and accept his version of events.

I should have been more specific regarding whose perspective - from mine wayyyyy more people would have been shot on the spot ie Tomas.

Both are right, both are wrong. Carole had the right idea, although it didn't seem to matter. Ppl still getting sick. Her quarantine failed.

But, Rick is right. If ppl just go off and start killing without at least getting some form of consensus, from the council or something, then the group will inevitably break apart. What would Tyrese do if he found out? It would be the showdown at the ok coral.

Don't forget Rick's original group is outnumbered. They would be crucified if they just started knocking off ppl from the new group arbitrarily.

It's not just about the group safety, but the survivability of the group as a whole.

What Carol did was understandable, so was Rick's reaction.

The problem I have with Carol's choices so far this season goes deeper than the murders; it's how she armed a little girl who obviously has mental issues and hasn't grasped the situation 100% and told her she has a right to kill, when she feels threatened.

The girl, whose name escapes me, was mourning for a dead zombie, not her father and told Carol that since people will come back ( as zombies ), she didn't see the problem.

Carol may have been kicked to the curb, but I suspect mini-Carol will be another problem.

I *just* watched the latest episode last night. I missed a few bits here and there, but I'm a bit annoyed that Rick didn't stand up for Carol. She's a core member, and pretty much irreplaceable. OK, killing the sick isn't my idea of the smartest thing to do - but they've been killing walkers for the past x number of months, so I can't say that this is totally out of left field.

I'm with you Elizabeth. I can't believe Rick didn't show Carol any more loyalty than that. All he had to do was tell her not to do anything like that again and then keep his mouth shut. Tyrese would have had to let it go eventually and would never have suspected Carol. Rick is a jerk!

I agree, Thia. Carol is one of the most valuable members of the group and she's definitely earned some loyalty. It's not like Rick hasn't made some iffy decisions himself and his own son shot a kid in cold blood. (Whether it was merited or not, Rick pretty much just has Hershel's version of what happened to go on and what Carl himself said didn't offer much contradiction to that.)

I think both Rick and Carol are guilty of the same thing--making decisions that affect the group that are not theirs to make. I think Carol's motives are purer than Rick's but still it wasn't her decision to make.

Then again, as I mentioned upthread, I'm not convinced that Carol isn't covering for Lizzie but I think she's involved, at least to the point of removing the bodies and burning them. I think she may have finished off what Lizzie started, thus being technically true when she says she killed them.

If he tells the group the truth about what he did (and I think he will), he's going to create a divide as big as what would have happened if he'd brought her back and told them what she did.

I especially don't see Darryl taking this well. I'd be surprised if he didn't go looking for her. If he does, that's two of the most valuable members of the group gone.

In a WD thread on another board, someone put forth the idea that Carol should just take that car and head back to the prison. Then, just as Rick is telling everyone that Carol was overtaken by Walkers, surprise! Guess who's here!

I don't think that will happen but I have to admit the idea makes me laugh.

I'm surprised everyone accepts that Carol did it. Rick didn't have a memory of it when he saw her doing it, he was imagining what it must have looked like. Tyrese was going to kill whoever did it. Carol knew that. Rick has been crazy. He saw his own blood on the door and paused, why? In the car on his way back to the prison he was thinking about Carol because he was looking at the watch and got his crazy face, why? Maybe Rick did it. He went into one of his crazy moments, killed and burned the sickies, and blocked it out. Carol knew he did it. When he asked her if she did it, she said yes quickly, hoping he would believe her and stop investigating. When they spoke of it at the house, she was trying to let him know that what he had done was understandable. When he told her to leave, she knew he would never have been able to forgive himself if he couldn't even forgive her. She knew if she left, he would move on, or she thought. If she didn't admit to doing it, Rick would realize he did, and tell everyone. Tyrese would kill him. Carol was protecting Rick. He's gonna remember doing it, and when he does, they'll find Carol. But... what will they find? Daryl is gonna become aware of it, and when they do find her, depending on what they find, he's gonna loose it big time. One of them, is gonna end up gone. Just what I think.

Faye wrote: "Any Walking Dead fans? What did you think of the last episode? I am totally Team Carol. One of the things I love about the show is what a great job it does in blurring the line between right and ..."

I think Rick did it.

I still lean toward Carol covering for Lizzie but this Rick did it theory is definitely interesting.

I can't WAIT until the next episode. I am SO enjoying this season so far. Last season was a bit *meh* for me.

I'm loving that there's way less soap opera elements to this season than the last couple and a lot more zombie action.

And I can't wait to see Daryll's reaction when he hears about Rick booting Carol out of the group.

Melanie wrote: He saw his own blood on the door and paused, why? In the car on his way back to the prison he was thinking about Carol because he was looking at the watch and got his crazy face, why?"

I thought the blood stain was already on the door and Rick was comparing the size of the bloody hand print to his own - realizing the hand was small. That's why I thought he suspected Carol.

I'm not sure Carol did it. She could be covering for someone...

Elizabeth and Debra I'm enjoying this season much more too. Less soapy is good. I was sooooo sick of Lori and her baby daddy drama and later Andrea and her stupid choices - crazy making. I usually save the episodes to watch 3 or 4 at a time - I watched the first four and then ended on the Carol leaving cliffhanger. I HAD to watch last week because I wanted to see what Daryl was going to do. Darn jerks hinted around at it through the whole episode, at the end even having Rick say "better go tell Daryl" then "naw it can wait..." HOW DARE THEY!!!! So now I have to watch tomorrow too - gotta find out what Daryl does.

BTW Daryl is on the cover of Men's Fitness this month with an interesting interview.

Debra wrote: "And I can't wait to see Daryll's reaction when he hears about Rick booting Carol out of the group."

Sorry, but I had to laugh at that.

First you say you're loving that there are less soap opera elements, then the thing you're anxiously awaiting is exactly that. :)

Ew good point Randy. I guess it's only certain kinds of soapy... Anything that gets Daryl more time... ;)

A) Anything involving Daryll is automatically awesome.
B) That's not soap opera. That's ass-kicking!

Melanie wrote: "I'm surprised everyone accepts that Carol did it. Rick didn't have a memory of it when he saw her doing it, he was imagining what it must have looked like. Tyrese was going to kill whoever did it. ..."
Melanie, WOW! What a super theory! I NEVER even thought of this! You should totally be on "Talking Dead"! Fantastic Really!!

Two episodes and still no Carol... What gives? They have to know we are waiting on Daryl's reaction!

They are monsters and they are torturing us Faye. I suspect it will be the mid season cliffhanger now and we'll have to wait until next year. Monsters I tell ya!

It's Rick's show, imo. But now that Carol is such a bad-ass, I like her a lot more than I used to.

Season Finale in T-minus 40 minutes (east coast USA)...

I saved the last 5 to watch as a marathon. Boy am I exhausted. The finale was GREAT! I don't know how I'm going to wait for the next season :(

Thia wrote: "I saved the last 5 to watch as a marathon. Boy am I exhausted. The finale was GREAT! I don't know how I'm going to wait for the next season :("

Agreed! Wow, some awesome stuff in that finale. But yeah, they are going to leave us hanging for what, four months now?

More like 6-1/2 months John! I'm not sure how I'll make it through Sundays for the next six and a half months!

Lana wrote: "More like 6-1/2 months John! I'm not sure how I'll make it through Sundays for the next six and a half months!"

Ugh. Me either. I heard they've okay'd a spinoff but doubt it'll be offered up over the long desolation period.

They are shooting for the spinoff being ready in 2015 so I'm afraid we're in for a long summer! October 12th can't get here fast enough.

any idea what the spin off will be about or who it will follow?

Robert Kirkman has said that it will be a different place than where Walking Dead takes place. He's excited about being able to build another zombie universe completely seperate from the comic book and Walking Dead tv show and characters. It may be a different time period during the apocalypse completely.

sounds cool. i'd like to see something from the start of the outbreak. people's actions terrify me a lot more than the zombies.

the scene where the army was killing people in the hospital still haunts me.

Yeah, the long dry spell is at hand. I'm up for the spinoff when it happens though.