Sword & Sorcery: "An earthier sort of fantasy" discussion

Heroine Female Lead & Anthology Groupread: The poll results equilibrated enough to call these topics. This is the first time a write-in vote won, which is pretty cool. The concurrent group reads will start Jan-1st 2014 and run through the end of Feb (two months for two topics).


L to R credits for the Jan-Feb 2014 Banner
Character // Artist // Title // Author(s) // Year
1) Red Sonja // Jenny Frison // Red Sonja Volume 1: Queen Of Plagues // Gail Simone, and Walter Geovani // 2013, 2014
2) Bloodsong // Boris Vallejo // Warrior Beast from Hel (2013 3Book release =Bloodsong! — Hel X 3 Trilogy) aka Werebeasts of Hel // Asa Drake aka C. Dean Andersson // 1986
3) Aella // Dsbenix Digital Entertainment, Ximphonic Versus: Oblivium Sic Sempiternum (Xing Xin and Endro Gatotkaca) // Sword Sisters: A Red Reaper Novel // Tara Cardinal,Alex Bledsoe // 2013
4) Jirel // Arnold Tsang // Black God's Kiss // C.L. Moore // 2007
5) Dossouye // Mshindo Kumba // Dossouye: the Dancers of Mulukau // Charles R. Saunders// 2011



Other heroine books of interest that almost made in the banner:
- Jason E. Thummel, The Bladewitch, released 2013
-Milton Davis, Griots: Sisters of the Spear, 2013

Theres a few heroine lead books out there, looking forward to reading some old favourites and new books.

Never heard of the Hel trilogy. More stuff for the wishlist. Thanks!

Bloodsong! — Hel X 3 was one my favorites when I migrated from epic fantasy toward darker/shorter fiction. I plan to re-read those in the eBook version and also read Thummel's recent release The Bladewitch.

I own those already. That said, RBE's Sword Sisters and Milton's Sisters of the spear both look good too. Note that Jason from RBE is giving away some copies of Sword Sisters to this group (first 10 repliers):
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Note that Milton J. Davis has another heroine recent release:
Woman of the Woods. Looks great.

Sadatina, an Adamu girl on the brink of becoming a woman has lived a peaceful life with her family in Adamusola, the land beyond the Old Men Mountains. But tragic events change her life forever, revealing a hidden past that leads her into the midst of a war between her people and those that would see them destroyed, the Mosele. Armed with a spiritual weapon and her feline 'sisters,' Sadatina becomes a Shosa, a warrior trained to fight the terrible nyokas, demon-like creatures that aid the Mosele in their war against her people. Woman of the Woods by Milton Davis is an action filled, emotionally charged adventure that expands the scope of the world of Uhuru and introduces another unforgettable character to the fabled continent's heroic legends

I think I might dive into some Jirel of Joiry for this. I also have volume 1 of Sword and Sorceress I've been dying to read.

I've been thinking about picking up Violette Malan's Dhulyn and Parno books (The Sleeping God is the first). This might be a convenient excuse.

I have been thinking about trying Tomoe Gozen by Jessica Amanda Salmonson. S&S in a fantasy Orient with a female protagonist. I have heard a bit of buzz about this series, but have never read any of her novels; might be a good time to try it out!

I will be getting Sword Sisters so may include that in with this but my first focus for this one will be revisiting an old favourite of mine. George Alec Effinger's:



I read this one decades ago BEFORE I have even read most of the characters and settings it paid homage too! It was great and funny before, however now that I am better read in the genre, I look forward to 'getting it' now.

I have a nice cross-section of various anthologies published during the 70's and 80's. Flashing Swords 2&3, Swords against Darkness 3&5, Barbarians 1&2, Years Best Fantasy 7, Thieves World 1, Sword and Sorceress 3, and possibly a few more! I have read parts of each one, but not nearly all, must pick one and go right through to the end. I just remembered Echoes of Valor 1 being high on my to read pile- maybe I will give it a go.

Hmm...wrong thread. I think you know where this one belongs...

S.wagenaar wrote: "I have been thinking about trying Tomoe Gozen by Jessica Amanda Salmonson. S&S in a fantasy Orient with a female protagonist. I have heard a bit of buzz about this series, but have never read any o..."

I've been eying Tomoe Gozen myself. I have heard it's quite good.

Since my reading time is almost nonexistent these days, I'll be joining you with a graphic novel:

Joining the discussion, Tomoe Gozen by Jessica Amanda Salmonson is excellent, as are the AMAZONS anthologies she edited, if they have not been mentioned. Their original paperback editions had great Michael Whelan covers, if memory serves. DAW published them, I think. And has anyone mentioned the CHICKS IN CHAIN MAIL anthologies that Esther Friesner edited? Some great stories in them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicks_i...

http://www.amazon.com/Amazons-II-Jess...

by J.F. Rivkin from the mid to late 80s not sure how available these are now.

also by Richard Kirk who is

Mark wrote: " by J.F. Rivkin from the mid to late 80s not sure how available these are now..."

I never heard of these. Thanks for sharing. Also,Cdean suggested Chicks in Chainmail and Amazons 2

and

Another comment about heroines in S&S...Seth probably knows this, but when my Bloodsong Saga first appeared in the mid-80s, I intended to keep the series going. But after three, the publisher told me that they had decided "women warriors aren't in" and stopped the series. Maybe that was true then, but thank goodness it no longer seems to be, if this group discussion is any indication. I even heard a discussion at a convention early on, where a "panel of experts"--all men--discussed whether a woman could successfully even be a warrior, given their "emotional natures." Were those strange days or what? Sure seems so now!

Cdean wrote: "Another comment about heroines in S&S..."

C. Dean, so glad you joined us. I am currently enjoying your rerelease of Bloodsong (Bloodsong - Hel X 3) in eBook form. You have hinted at a forth novel in the works, so perhaps you will extend the series.

Just a few weeks ago I thought there was not many "Heroines," but that was a niave assumption. We have several authors here with recent heroine publications (including actress and author Tara Cardinal's Sword Sisters: A Red Reaper Novel and Jason E. Thummel's The Bladewitch), sword-and-soul advocate Milton J. Davis's Woman of the Woods too) and some who have published for years (Janet E. Morris's High Couch of Silistra), and I am sure I am missing more (all authors are welcome to chime in!).

In other media, I had been anxious to see a good Heroine movie. Actress Rose McGowan almost presented a reboot of Red Sonja, but since the reboot of Conan (in which she did a fair job as the sorceress Marique) did poorly, it is likely not going to happen. The new release "Legend of the Red Reaper" looks promising (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0996958/) and stars author Tara Cardinal.

Theres more than you think S.E. theres more I will be adding for the group to checkout.

heroines with a differance.

Tgat RAVEN series mentioned above is great! Also, there were five or six Red Sonja novels with Boris covers that I enjoyed.

Cdean wrote: "Tgat RAVEN series mentioned above is great! Also, there were five or six Red Sonja novels with Boris covers that I enjoyed."

Are they the David C Smith books?

I am considering either Silverglass or Swordsmistress of Chaos, (both already mentioned upstream) the latter being another pseudonymous work of Robert Holdstock, I believe, which would tie in nicely with my earlier read of his Berserker books 1 and 2, written under the name of Chris Carlsen, which I enjoyed. So many books, so little time...

And thank you, Seth, for making mention of The Bladewitch. Honestly when I wrote it, I was of much the same mind, that it seemed heroines were lacking in S&S. Obviously, as this thread thankfully demonstrates, we were both mistaken...

The Red Sonja novels were the Smith ones, yes.

Periklis wrote: "Since my reading time is almost nonexistent these days, I'll be joining you with a graphic novel:
"

Ah! My reading time is also next-to-nonexistent, Periklis - and my writing time is scuppered at the moment since my computer is down (and out!). But I remember John Bolton's 'Marada' well, from Marvel's Epic magazine.

I really enjoyed their previous S&S flavored collaboration:


I have high hopes for "Marada"!

Janet Morris has pushed people's expectations of sexuality and the role of women in fantasy fiction since 1976; I just completed an interview with her on the targeted discussion of "Art & Beauty in Fantasy Fiction" ... stemming from some off-line Heroine Group Read discussions.
Link= http://sethlindberg.blogspot.com/2014...

Incidentally, member A.L. recently published an insightful, more-general interview with Janet Morris: JEM interview by AL.

Three questions on Art & Beauty:
1.Were you aiming to recast/redefine the definition of beauty at all in your work? If so, would the Silistra series (High Couch of Silistra) be the most representative?

2. How exactly did you strategize writing fiction featuring a powerful woman without pandering to stereotypes (i.e. chic's in chainmail) or making her wear a "man-suit"?

3. Have you ever thought of your own fiction as beautiful art?

Here are some of Janet Morris's quotes:

"My strategy was simply to write a book that spoke for a unique viewpoint, not for the “woman’s movement” (who were offended that it diverged from their politics) or the conservative male-backlash audience."

"None of our heroines have ever worn chain mail."

"When I saw the Boris High Couch cover for the first time, I was insulted that anyone could have derived the brass bra and Gucci boots image from my work."

"Beauty requires that we breathe into our characters a unique view of the human condition, and show how that character experiences and suffers the world around him (her)."

"So where does Art reside, and where Beauty? Art is the process and Beauty the result."

I recently finished Silverglass, and posted my review here. I enjoyed it quite a bit, and will definitely be looking into the sequels.

I did try to find out more information on the author, J.F. Rivkin, but came up with virtually nothing. One site suggested it was a pseudonym for two authors working together, but did not name them, while most mentioned the author in passing as a single individual. The author Rivkin did, apparently, write with another author under a third pen name, so I'm wondering if the one site was misinformed. In any case, does anyone here know anything about this author at all?

Seth, nice interview, by the way. Thanks for the link. Janet E Morris's passion for writing really comes through.

Jason wrote: "I recently finished Silverglass, and posted my review here. I enjoyed it quite a bit, and will definitely be looking into the sequels.

I did try to find out more information on the ..."

Nice review Jason. Glad you enjoyed it.

I finished reading Sword Sisters: A Red Reaper Novel novel, and my review is here. The book had some issues (including the fact that the protagonist has not yet become the cover artwork's confident, badass swordswoman; I wanted to read about HER), but it was a fun read.

Incidentally this was my first Rogue Blades Entertainment book. I was very pleased with the quality of the ebook and its editing, and I look forward to checking out RBE's backcatalog.

Starting Griots: Sisters of the Spear today. Always looking forward to what Davis and Saunders do.

I just started reading Red Sonja Volume 1: Queen Of Plagues last night, following on the heels of Dejah Thoris and the Green Men of Mars Volume 1. Looking forward to the discussion.

Bob wrote: "I just started reading Red Sonja Volume 1: Queen Of Plagues last night, following on the heels of Dejah Thoris and the Green Men of Mars Volume 1. Looking forward to..."

Sweet, I have read the single issues of that Red Sonja book and absolutely love it! Gail Simone sure can write! She really upped the drama in that storyline and hooked me right in!

I haven't read the Green Men of Mars yet. I think I may have that one sitting around somewhere though ... :)

Bob wrote: "I just started reading Red Sonja Volume 1: Queen Of Plagues last night, following on the heels of Dejah Thoris and the Green Men of Mars Volume 1. Looking forward to..."

I'll be interested to hear your thoughts on Red Sonja, as it certainly looks promising. Unfortunately, for general release, it appears it won't be available until mid-February.

Jason beat me to Silverglass, but hopefully I'll cover new ground with God Stalk.

Want to share a Russian artist's view of a Sword and Sorcery heroine, Ilya Voronin's hardcore warrior interpretation of Bloodsong. Interesting contrast to Boris Vallejo's beautiful paintings of her on the American covers. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...

Dean wrote: "Want to share a Russian artist's view of a Sword and Sorcery heroine, Ilya Voronin's hardcore warrior interpretation of Bloodsong. Interesting contrast to Boris Vallejo's beautiful paintings of he..."

Fantastic artwork, thanks for sharing.

Red Sonja Fans - of the Comic Kind, The folks on the Facebook Page "Sword & Sorcery League" just posted a link to a great interview with Gail Simone.

Here it is: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?pa...

Interesting to note that the entire crew for Legeds of Red Sonja #1 was female.

Actually the Comic Book Resource squad interviewed her in March too: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?pa...

Great lengthy interviews.

Just finished Griots: Sisters of the Spear, edited by Milton Davis and Charles Saunders. Decent anthology that gives readers both tough heroines in settings too often neglected. The standouts are "The Night Wife" by Carole McDonnell, "The Blood of the Lion" by Joe Bonadonna, "Old Habits" by Milton Davis and "Ghost Marriage" by P. Djeli Clark.
There were only a few stories I didn't like, finding them boring. Even they were written well and had a few clever/interesting ideas packed into them. Worth way more than the price of $4.99.

Just finished the eBook trilogy Bloodsong! — Hel X 3 (review there). For it me, it was nostalgic fun, having read the paperbacks in ~1986. It is a rare mix of horror and fantasy that I especially recommend to any who (a) adore necromancy or (b) are making the transition from epic-high fantasy into grittier adventure. I am in the process of interviewing C. Dean now too, so I will return with more commentary soon.

I am tempted to try the books listed above by Phil, Fletcher, and others (Sword Sisters: A Red Reaper Novel, Griots: Sisters of the Spear, and Red Sonja Volume 1: Queen Of Plagues), but those will have to wait until I read Jason Thummel’s The Bladewitch. I always seem to end each group-read with a bigger to-read pile than I had in the beginning; thanks to all for sharing your experiences.

Thanks for the Bloodsong review, Seth.

By the way, has anyone here mentioned the novels featuring Morgaine by C.J. Cherryh yet? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Morg... Or Elizabeth Moon's Paks in The Deed of Paksenarrion? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Deed... Perhaps "Sword and Sorcery" is not the genre to strictly assign them to, but they are memorable female fantasy leads that came to mind today, so if no one had mentioned them yet, I thought I should.

Dean wrote: "Thanks for the Bloodsong review, Seth.

By the way, has anyone here mentioned the novels featuring Morgaine by C.J. Cherryh yet? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Morg... Or Elizabeth Moon..."

I reread the Morgaine books last year for the first time in probably 15 years. (My review of Gate of Ivrel) So very, very good and I'd say they absolutely would count, although they lean a bit closer to sword & planet. Haven't read the Paks books in a long time but I do remember liking them.

There's also Jennifer Roberson's Del & Tiger books, beginning with Sword-Dancer.

Joseph wrote: "Dean wrote: "Thanks for the Bloodsong review, Seth.

By the way, has anyone here mentioned the novels featuring Morgaine by C.J. Cherryh yet? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Morg... Or E..."

I confess to never having read C.J. Cherryh yet. Is the Gate of Ivrel a good one to get introduced to her style?

S.E. wrote: "I confess to never having read C.J. Cherryh yet. Is the Gate of Ivrel a good one to get introduced to her style?"

I'd say yes. It's slightly atypical in that it leans closer to fantasy than to SF, but it's short & relatively self-contained, and it gives a good sense of her sensibilities and her prose stylings. And it's a damn' fine story ...

I would certainly second Gate of Ivrel, Seth. In addition to the excellent story, as Joseph noted above, it is available with a Whelan cover...which is just gravy in this case.

I enjoyed your Bloodsong review, Seth. Looks like I'll be adding that collection to my must read list.

Started The Sleeping God by Violette Malan -- it's been on my radar for a while, and this is as good an excuse as any.