Crazy for Young Adult Books discussion

Join Vicki, Trisha, Gisbelle, Emily, and I for this buddy read!

If this date doesn't work for anyone let us know and we can always switch it around!

I'm good with it!

yay I have been wanting to read this one!

Awesome!

I know I've had this book at least a year, if not more. I am SO excited to finally be reading it with all of you! YAY!!

just checked and my library has it in.

Woohoo! So excited!

Joining :)

Lisa wrote: "Joining :)"

Woo! Welcome!

This is a big group! (:

Hi everyone!! It's been a while but I'm definitely joining you for this one!

Ally wrote: "Hi everyone!! It's been a while but I'm definitely joining you for this one!"

Hello! Welcome back! Glad you are joining!

Ally wrote: "Hi everyone!! It's been a while but I'm definitely joining you for this one!"

Hi Ally! good to see you and glad you'll be joining us!

I will be joining in for my first buddy read!

I have this book too! I'm in!

Woohoo! Glad you are both joining!

I can hardly wait!!!!

Me neither!

yay!! we ready for this one tomorrow??

I forgot about this one. Boom so many books I have to catch up with.

I am SO READY for this one!!!! I have wanted to read it for a very long time!!

Let's do this! :)

Today's the day!

How much are we reading per day? Or just check in every few?

I'm going to join in I haven't started it yet but I will sometime today

I have the ebook version on my NOOK, and it shows Part I ends after ch. 5 or 80 pages; however, I don't know what real page it is. LOL But usually we read 5 chapters and report back with our comments. But there are 44 chapters, so I'm not sure people want to take 9 days to read it. I will try to read Part I today.

I'll be reading this, Masquerade and Crash into you so it may take me nine days!

Me too LOL but I know some people might want to get it done in about three hours ha ha!

Vicki wrote: "Me too LOL but I know some people might want to get it done in about three hours ha ha!"

You mean Trisha? LOL

I totally forgot to order this one. If I stop by the library today I can pick it up but I am not sure if I will be able to go! We'll see!

Emily, I'm not mentioning any names! Lol But I love her very much, and if I ever go to hell for coveting, it will be because of "this person's" reading speed! Lol

Good luck Jacque!

lol!!! Sorry, I was gone all day at a Girl Scout Cookie Jamboree :D

Well, I think this is going to be a tough book
and a dark one

I'm okay coming back as often as we feel moved - and I think that might be more often than every 5 chapters

but otherwise, every 5 works for me too :)

sorry guys, I was hoping to post tonight but I'll start my reading now and post in the morning.

No problem, Trisha! It's really good so far!

I am almost finished with PART I, and so far I really do like it. It is a little dark, yes, but not too much yet.

Valerie: (view spoiler)[ She definitely appears not to have truly realized that Nick was going to actually kill anyone. I think she is most implicated by Christy's killing. But even then she didn't realize he was going to really KILL her, and that was his intent. I do feel for her braving it at school. People must really hate her, be disgusted, afraid, many emotions because they don't know what part she really played. And kids are merciless at times. (hide spoiler)]

*deep deep sigh* Okay, this one is as tough as I thought it would be - I'm thru chapter 5

I'm going to rant. Read at your own discretion. lol :)

Vicki, my hat goes off to you for being able to read books about high school shootings. I am pretty much reading this book with my hand over my mouth the whole time not breathing and in complete shock

Shootings at schools scare me so completely. My oldest daughter's school had a scare a few months ago where a boy was caught with a gun on school grounds.He'd bought it from another kid and did the exchange at school and another kid saw it and reported it. It was reported and controled w/in 10 min.
Luckily, it wasn't loaded
Luckily, they didn't find any bullets

but omg it didn't make it any less scary that day. When my oldest got home, I hugged her and burst into tears and she was like "mom, what's wrong?" lol
she'd had no idea it had happened at all and I'd heard about it directly from the principal and had been freaking out until she got home.

So, reading these books are always tough for me

so far:

I'm enjoying the varying chapters - (view spoiler)[ I like that we're getting a before shooting chapter and then an after shooting chapter and they are consistent. We know one will follow the other. (hide spoiler)] I also think (view spoiler)[ it keeps the true horror of what has happened at a even level (hide spoiler)]

Her mom (view spoiler)[ I like her. I know she means well and I think she's doing great with what she has. I love that she fought with the other mom and told her to blow it. I like that her mom stood up for her. but I think she needs to let some things go too. She needs some better techniques for talking with Val. but..... (hide spoiler)] would I be any better in her shoes. gah, I don't think I would.

I kind of hate (view spoiler)[ that they've added this layer of the parents fighting. It isn't only kids who have bad families or families that are struggling that do this. They can come from good homes and still bump into the wrong kids at school or be susceptible to bullies (hide spoiler)]

kids at school (view spoiler)[ I'm so torn. Before the shooting, they were awful. they were just like she described: WOLVES preying on the weak and small. Bullying these kids for years. (hide spoiler)] I know how ugly this can be. I just pulled my youngest out of public school just last week because she was so horribly bullied - my happy go lucky 9 year old now has panic attacks as we arrive at school. How sad is that? that the bullying at 9 is so bad she's terrified?

But Val & Nick's friends (view spoiler)[ now post shooting, how can they turn their backs on her. ugh, but how can they not? I'm so torn. there is just no right or wrong way to handle this. It just...is. (hide spoiler)]

Val (view spoiler)[ I'm so torn. She's a victim, in so many different ways. And she's trying to hard to be a survivor. I'm sad she chose to go back to this school. I wish she'd chosen on-line public school or looked for an alternative. (hide spoiler)] There is proving a point and going just to show how strong you are (view spoiler)[and then there is punishing and torturing yourself for feeling guilty. And I think going back to this school might fall into category two - but I hope not. But it's just as horrifying and awful for her to return as the rest of them, maybe even more so since she actually loved Nick and couldn't believe he betrayed her like this and she feels so guilty AND she's an outsider with no friends to help or hug her (hide spoiler)]

Nick. What is there to say about him (view spoiler)[ His bullying sounds AWFUL. Just awful. he was harassed and picked on, singled out and tortured.

But did that mean he could kill everyone? And involve Val like she was a party to it? Ugh....No no no no no no. he had no right. (hide spoiler)]

it's tough. It's a tough one for sure. Especially at this odd stage in my life. lol

Sorry, rant is over now :)

Wow, so sorry to hear about that awful experience, Trisha. Thank God everyone is okay.

I am going to start this one soon! We can get through this tough read together! (:

I loved your rant! LOL

First, let me say that I am SO sorry about your little one!!! That is SO wrong on so many counts. Where was the teacher? the principal? the school? That should never have happened, but it ABSOLUTELY should have never continued. What are you doing for her schooling? Home school?

Don't get me wrong. This isn't an "easy" read by any mans. I teach at the oldest high school in our town, and we are on what is NOW the main street of our town that is the main highway that leads to the freeway and Yosemite National Park. We also have businesses directly across the street on 3 sides of our school. My own classroon is directly across the street from homes. We have had lock downs 2 or 3 times, but one I remember well. Someone robbed the bank and holed up at the house across the street from my classroom. Well, our entire school was in lock down and after about an hour, they finally moved my class to another room on the other side of the hallway, so we had about 60 kids, half sitting on the floor, and 2 teachers. We were in there for another hour and a half or two and then the entire school was evacuated and we had to walk to a nearby park where the parents picked up their children.

I PERSONALLY took a knife away from a student once. LOL You're a mom, so you'll appreciate this. The kids were in groups doing a group assignment, and I looked at this one group and they looked at me with that, "Uh-oh...she caught us" look. I had NO idea what was going on, but I walked to their group and held out my hand and said, "Give it to me," without looking at anyone in particular. I was NOT expecting a knife, but that's what I got!!! The kid was suspended, of course.

I think that because I work with about 150 students yearly, and have for 22 years, that I look at things like this book from a different angle. Of course, I don't like to see ONE kid even shot, let alone die. But I read this book more from the perspective of WHAT CAUSES THIS? What can I do as a teacher to prevent this from happening? How can I attack bullying, etc.

Valerie is most definitely, in my opinion, (view spoiler)[ a victim, but she also has some culpability! I don't see her as innocent at all. (hide spoiler)] This is what is so hard at school. Kids ALWAYS think other kids are "joking." I will NOT allow students to EVER say things like, "I'm gonna kill him" or even joking around name call, etc. I tell them that I have to protect ALL of them and that we never know when someone is serious. I've had some kids bullied just because they are quiet or they are smart or they have a speech impediment. It is SO difficult to eliminate bullying altogether!

Our school has done a program for YEARS that tackles bullying, but they can only allow about 150 kids in the one-day program. MOST kids walk out in tears, realizing the devastation and that we are all SO much alike. I have my problems; you have yours.

Anyway I think at this point in the book that it (view spoiler)[ offers hope. At least I hope so. MANY young people will read this book and (I'm hoping) see the importance of not taking everything as a "joke." While I wish that Val and/or her mother would have sent her to another school entirely, I do admire Val for what she is facing. We'll have to see if it moves in a positive direction or a more dark, depressing one. (hide spoiler)]

Jessica Campbell: (view spoiler)[I guess it's highly likely that something like the school shooting would change a person. Jessica "looked changed somehow." This is the girl that Val "saved." I wonder if she is truly going to be a "different girl" now. I hope this shooting spree did change the bullies! Of course, it would never change every single person, I don't think. (hide spoiler)]

Valerie's art: (view spoiler)[ I think that her drawings are as cathartic for her as writing is to people. I love how she drew Jessica now as a "puppy" and now a "wolf-face." She must see a real change but was afraid to trust it due to her experience. (hide spoiler)]

Trisha, I just finished the rest of ch. 5, and now I see what you mean. I hadn't read the part where it (view spoiler)[ went over in such gruesome detail what happened in the Commons that day. I had stopped at the part where Jessica asked Val to sit with her, and up until right after that there wasn't too much about that day itself. It is darker the end of ch. 5. (hide spoiler)]

Valerie: (view spoiler)[She said she feels responsible for Mrs. Tenille's seeming lack of connect to life right now. How do you feel about that? What do you think is Valerie's culpability in all of this? If you do a bank robbery and didn't know someone else had a gun and they kill someone, you can be charged, too. We haven't seen anything to show why Val wasn't charged with any of the deaths that day but instead the only thing we've seen is a medal for saving Jessica's life. (hide spoiler)] I don't know how I feel about that! I have very conflicted feelings about a lot of this.

Mr. Kline: (view spoiler)[ I think MANY, if not most, teachers would do exactly what he did. I have NO doubt that I would, as terrified as I'd be. Just as any mother would protect her children, most teachers would protect their students. You see heroes time after time in real-life-events such as this. (hide spoiler)] SO FREAKING SAD!!!

Oh man, I love talking law :)

culpability and accessory to a crime (view spoiler)[
I think the difference here is....Valerie didn't KNOW there would be a school shooting. Had she thought Nick was bringing a gun to school to "scare" everyone and he accidentally shot and killed someone, THEN I think she can be held responsible.

but she had no idea what he was doing, no idea he had a gun. (hide spoiler)]

If your friends pick you up after school to hang out. They tell you they are heading to the bank to get some money and you hang in the car. When they come running out and run away from the car because they killed someone inside - you aren't an accessory..... You didn't even know they were going to do it.


NOW, where I think this gets grey (view spoiler)[ is the list. It's hard to say she didn't help "plan it". It sure looks like she did - to an outsider. If she helped him plan the shooting - then she is an accessory, even if she didn't even hold a gun.(same with planning a bank robbery but staying home when they actually rob the bank. You can still be held responsible in most cases)...... (hide spoiler)]

As far as Mrs. Tenille. I think Valerie will always feel guilt (view spoiler)[ and feel like she could have saved some people. I think she will always feel like there were missed chances when she could have turned him in, should have seen the signs.
I hope one day she can separate herself from what Nick's done and realize her role in all this was.....just a bystander, just like everyone else. She is just as much a victim here as the other people who were shot. Because she loved him, trusted him to protect her and instead he endangered her life and shot her. And then left her alone to pick up the mess once he was gone. (hide spoiler)]

Mr. Kline (view spoiler)[ makes my heart break. Absolutely break. I know everyone one of you teachers with a heart of gold would sacrifice yourselves for the sake of these kids and it just...it hurts me that we even have to talk about it. Because teachers HAVE had to make that choice. :( it's just so awful it's beyond words (hide spoiler)]

I'm more curious about this friend of Nick's (view spoiler)[ was his name Jeremy? where did this guy go? and is he how Nick got the guns?? and the plan??
Is THAT the car that Nick arrived in on that day?? (hide spoiler)]

Trisha wrote: "Oh man, I love talking law :)

culpability and accessory to a crime
I think the difference here is....Valerie didn't KNOW there would be a school shooting. Had she thought Nick was bringing a gun ..."

I virtually agree with EVERYTHING you said. the only thing that (view spoiler)[ gives Val ANY culpability is that she began the hate list and continued it with Nick, but she had NO idea what he was going to do. So she isn't responsible for the shootings; however, I agree that,unfortunately, she will most likely feel guilt her entire life. (hide spoiler)]

Where did you stop?

I've just stopped at Part I
I probably won't get through Part II until tomorrow....I'm not sure I can pick it back up today

did you finish part II?

No, but I plan to finish it today. I've been doing some things in my house. Gotta get food ready for the big 49er game! My husband will be home in 3 hours and will turn on the recorded game and I am getting his grub ready. Lol

I'm going to try and get to chapter 8 and hopefully ten I'm still on one

Chantae wrote: "I'm going to try and get to chapter 8 and hopefully ten I'm still on one"

Same here my goal is to get to 10 today but I keep getting interrupted when I'm in it

I finished PART II, ch. 15, the halfway point.

Detective Panzella: (view spoiler)[ I wasn't too happy that he interviewed Val in the hospital like he did. But eventually at least he got to the bottom of it and realized she wasn't "in on it." Her emails were very incriminating, though. (hide spoiler)] Just goes to show that ANYTHING we write down can certainly be misconstrued so we need to be careful always of what we say.

Christy: (view spoiler)[ It's too bad that she appears at this time anyway not to have changed. (hide spoiler)]

Stacey: I have ambivalent feelings about her. (view spoiler)[ She made Val feel like she didn't really believe she was innocent, but she is the main one who told Detective Panzella that she did not shoot anyone. Did I miss something? (hide spoiler)]

The afterward at school: (view spoiler)[ This might sound terrible, but it goes to show that out of everything bad there can (and I believe does) come something good. I was SO glad to read that "all" of the students are friends now and they did learn lessons. However, Val made a valid point. Why couldn't they have learned before all the shootings? Nick did deserve a happy life too, one of no bullying. (hide spoiler)]

Dr. Hieler: (view spoiler)[ I am glad that Val opened up to him. He appears to be one of the good doctors of mental health. He is easy to talk with and he listens in between the lines. (hide spoiler)]

Just finished Part I, wow this is just an intense read. I agree with everything that was said in the previous conversation above. I don't think that Valerie ever intended to do anything with the Hate List... just like a Burn Book or the Hot or Not lists. But obviously what came after this list was much more significant. I'm thinking that Jeremy had something to do with all of it. There's just so much going on here that I need to keep reading to know how I really feel.

Yes, Audra, this one is intense. I'm glad you're liking it tho.

Okay, I'm done with Part II

Dr. Hieler (view spoiler)[ OMG i love him. I love him for not wronging her or shaming her. for finding her.

because it seems like Nick dominated her life and she lost some of herself - okay a lot of herself - in the charismatic world that was Nick (hide spoiler)]

Stacey (view spoiler)[ No, it wasn't stacey
it was the girl who approached her at the school the first day back. The girl she saved. SHE is the one who convinced them Val had nothing to do with it

I don't like Stacey. but as much as I want to wrong her, I have no idea how this all went down. I mean, did she see Val and Nick have these crazy talks or - and what I think would be more likely - Stacey hadn't seen much of Val since she'd started dating him. My guess is, Stacey didn't know much about Val anymore.... I think Val and Nick were pretty wrapped up in their hate and anger against the world. (hide spoiler)]

bullying (view spoiler)[ I can't lie. Their bullying was awful
omg awful
throwing that drink at the car, the nickname they called Val - all just awful ugh (hide spoiler)]

this section was a little easier to read....since we are through the shooting part and are working through the aftermath stuff. It was easier.