Classic Horror Lovers discussion

Let's start a buddy read on 1/13/14 for Joseph Sheridan Le Fanu's "The Purcell Papers". It is in three volumes, each with four short stories of about 20 - 25 pages in length. Read at your own pace, post your ideas and please use spoiler tags.

The Purcell Papers:

Vol 1

The Ghost and the Bone-Setter (first published January 1838)
The Fortunes of Sir Robert Ardagh (March 1838)
The Last Heir of Castle Connor (June 1838)
The Drunkard's Dream (August 1838)

Vol 2

Passage in the Secret History of an Irish Countess (November 1838)
The Bridal of Carrigvarah (April 1839)
Strange Event in the Life of Schalken the Painter (May 1839)
Scraps of Hibernian Ballads (June 1839)

Vol 3

Jim Sulivan's Adventures in the Great Snow (July 1839)
A Chapter in the History of a Tyrone Family (October 1839)
An Adventure of Hardress Fitzgerald, a Royalist Captain (February 1840)
The Quare Gander (October 1840)
Billy Maloney's Taste of Love and Glory (June 1850)

Just to be clear: the stories mentioned are the original Purcell Papers, but the edition pictured (which is the one I have) only contains about a third of the stories from the original, with other stories not mentioned here. But you're suggesting the original?

Yes, the original, in three volumes, available all over the internet for free. If you need any links, let me know.

Looking forward to this. Trying to clear up a little of the currently reading list this weekend.

Great, thanks!

I got it on my Kindle app for free, all three volumes.

I picked it up at Amazon for free. :)

**********The Ghost and the Bone-Setter**********

I had some time today. So, I got a bit of an early start.

It was a little rough getting into the colloquial speech of the characters in this short story. But, once I got rolling with it, things moved quickly.

(view spoiler)[This one deals with Irish folk tale that the newly buried must carry drinks for others in purgatory until they are relieved by yet a newer burial. Its an initiation into purgatory.

Le Fanu's sense of humor shows through in this one, both with the anecdote of the short-cut taking family at the beginning of the story and then again with the "punchline" to the story delivered in the final few paragraphs.

Le Fanu does leave you to decide for yourself if it was the drink that affected the bone-setter or if he actually conversed with the spirit. I tend to believe the only spirits witnessed by the man were alcoholic and not otherworldly. (hide spoiler)]

Loved it! I had the same initial trouble with the patois (and found myself hoping that the ending didn't depend on some specific word), but, yeah, once I got rolling it was easy enough.

(view spoiler)[The humor is very deftly handled and the whole tone of the story is light and enjoyable, with quite a few zingers throughout. I'm not even convinced that the townsfolk weren't actually squatting in the castle for the free booze rather than "watching" it, although I suspect the former. (hide spoiler)]

just started the Ghost and the Bone-setter. so far it reads like a love story!

I didn't check the titles of the stories. I read the first one in the volume that I have which is supposed to contain all three volumes, according to the title. I came here to post about the story and find that I just read the first story in the third volume, Jim Sulivan's Adventures in the Great Snow. I was miffed. I returned to the book to try to find the first story of the first volume and there is no TOC at all.

Anyway, I located another volume online that I will download when I get home. *sigh*
Well, I guess I will be ahead of the game when we get to volume 3. :)

That was a good idea, Randolph. I already deleted it and got another copy. I'm pretty sure I have some other public domain books that will help with though, so thanks.
Anyway, I loved this story. It was funny and creepy all at once.4*

Brian wrote: "Loved it! I had the same initial trouble with the patois (and found myself hoping that the ending didn't depend on some specific word), but, yeah, once I got rolling it was easy enough.

[spoilers..."

I don't know about the "patois" but it sure was written funny! LOL! I'm going to have to add "patois" to my lexicon if I can figure out how to pronounce it. My wife is fluent in French and loves it when I pick up one of her novels and start reading it to her in mid-western American accent. Can keep her entertained for hours!

Well, sir. I only know how we talk down chere in the great state o Texas, and a word like that, well, I'd haf to say it sounds like patios. As in, them feriners was talkin their patios out there on that patio yonder.

LOL

**********The Fortunes of Sir Robert Ardagh**********

This story tells two versions of the life of Sir Robert Ardagh. The first version is the version passed down from generation to generation by word of mouth. The second version is "the truth".

(view spoiler)[As to be expected, the first version was more fun! The second version though receives the award for the creepiest moment...when the coach approaches the crossroads and meets the man that the driver thought was sitting in the coach...nice!

Both versions attribute Ardagh's fortune to a deal with the devil! (hide spoiler)]

Both versions are good, though I also liked the first one better.

(view spoiler)[ Overall, not as good as Bone-Setter. One problem I had with this story is Le Fanu's objective. I mean, why tell a story in two different ways unless there's a point. Given that one story is tradition/superstition, I would have thought the point was to demonstrate how ordinary, simple facts can be twisted when being passed down through the generations. Problem is, *both* stories contain supernatural elements. So, yeah, it got twisted, but it wasn't necessary. The alterations made it a little more exciting, but I don't think that's sufficient to justify Le Fanu's approach.

One of the things that I appreciated was the moment in the second story when Lady Ardagh screams and faints. This is such an arbitrary and usually unbelievable trope in most stories (and movies especially), but here it was set up so well that it was perfectly understandable and I could sympathize with the Lady. (hide spoiler)]

The Fortunes of Sir Robert Ardagh is a long short story!
I started reading it last night and it seemed like I was reading forever and then I fell asleep! :)
I should finish it today at lunch.

It's lunch, I finished. I, too, enjoyed the first telling better than the second.
(view spoiler)[ Brian, I, too, thought that the second version was going to point out how the first version was distorted over the years and I kept waiting for it to do that, but it never did. I found the second telling to be a little bit boring and repetitious, other than the part about the coach driver discovering Jacque at the side of the road. That part was pretty damn cool! But then we went back to sort of boring again. (hide spoiler)]
So far the first story is my favorite. 3*

The Last Heir of Castle Connor.

(view spoiler)[ Well, that was a sad tale. What was with Fitzgerald that he reneged on his first note to Connor? I'm not sure if I missed something here. Why is this story in Purcell's papers (hide spoiler)]

A Drunkard's Dream.

Easily my favorite story of this volume. (view spoiler)[ I loved that the priest used the opportunity of Connor's near death experience to pitch the religious way of life, only to discover that it didn't matter in the slightest, at the end. (hide spoiler)]

Last Heir of Castle Connor

(view spoiler)[The key to your first question is this line, "I am convinced that in every case in which Fitzgerald has fought, if the truth could be discovered, he would be found to have acted throughout upon the defensive." What we discover is that this is in fact not true, and that Fitzgerald's reputation is well deserved. In other words, as we see in his ludicrous interpretation of O'Connor's note, his (mis)interpretations are willful -- because what he really wants to do is murder.

As for your second question, I'm not sure I know what you mean, but Derleth's introduction to my edition mentions that one of the reasons some of the stories were not included is because they weren't supernatural. Otherwise, of course, since all the "papers" are written by Purcell and since this story is autobiographical, it's natural that it would be included.

The story itself -- yes, it's a sad story, but a very wordy one. The others have been too, but it isn't so noticeable when humor is injected to liven things up a bit. It's well written, but not, I thought, terribly interesting, except in the etiquette of dueling. When I read O'Connor's note to Fitzgerald, my first thought was of how many arguments even today could be avoided if people simply stated the facts up front like that, so that there could be no misunderstandings. (This is why it struck me so forcefully what sort of man Fitzgerald was when he later rejected the note.) (hide spoiler)]

**********The Last Heir of Castle Connor**********

(view spoiler)[Well, the title was a spoiler on its own..."The Last Heir of Castle Connor".

I never understood the whole dueling thing! My mouth would have gotten me shot decades ago!

Wordy, yes....much more so than the previous stories.

As far as being included with the Purcell Papers, I have to agree with Brian. It is autobiographical in that it shows Purcell's calling into the ministry

It is my understanding that "The Purcell Papers" is a bit more of a mix of genres than just Le Fanu's ghost stories. The other stories up to this point have had supernatural elements. This one most certainly did not. (hide spoiler)]

Last Heir of Castle Connor

(view spoiler)[My thought was that, as an American, I hardly needed Le Fanu to tell me what a waste dueling could be. Which, of course, reminded me of the great line in "Lazy Sunday" -- "You can call us Aaron Burr from the way we're droppin' Hamilton's." (hide spoiler)]

I just got done reading Wilkie Collins "The Haunted Hotel".

The Drunkard's Dream

(view spoiler)[Isn't it funny how alcoholism was so well understood in the past yet unrecognized as a disease?

To continue Char's point, I love the way Le Fanu weaves together alcoholism and Hell, with Connor's "return" to Hell inextricably linked to his "return" to the bottle. Poor Purcell believes industriousness and piety can do the trick, but in the end, Connor doesn't have a chance: his addiction is going to take him back to Hell anyway (whether living or dead). (hide spoiler)]

Terrific story!

Brian wrote: "Last Heir of Castle Connor

The key to your first question is this line, "I am convinced that in every case in which Fitzgerald has fought, if the truth could be discovered, he would be found to ha..."


Brian, (view spoiler)[ Thanks for the response, Brian. Thinking back, yes...I guess with Fitzgerald's supposed change of heart, it proved exactly that...that he was a murderer and enjoyed it.
What I meant about why was this story included. Maybe I misread, but I thought the papers were Purcell's attempt to document local legends, stories, etc.. and I just didn't see where this tale fit into that. I didn't realize that the papers were also meant to be an auto-bio of Purcell. (hide spoiler)]

Charlene wrote: "Brian wrote: "Last Heir of Castle Connor

The key to your first question is this line, "I am convinced that in every case in which Fitzgerald has fought, if the truth could be discovered, he would ..."

(view spoiler)[Fitzgerald had no change of heart. He was toying with him. He was exactly as you said, a murderer and he did enjoy it. It was a game for him. (hide spoiler)]

I will say too that I enjoy Le Fanu's writing style. It's much easier to read than M.R. James' style, IMHO.

**********The Drunkard's Dream**********

This one made me wonder if Le Fanu was a teetotaler.

(view spoiler)[It also made me wonder why Purcell remained in the ministry at the realization that there was little to nothing he could do for a damned soul. Unless, he didn't believe the second shadow to be a representative from Hell come to reclaim Pat Connell's soul. (hide spoiler)]

The Drunkard's Dream

(view spoiler)[Purcell is certainly suspicious, saying at one point that he thought there had to be more to Connell's apparent reformation that a mere dream. And I guess ministers have to take the surgeon's attitude that whatever you do, you can't save everyone. (hide spoiler)]

*****Passage in the Secret History of an Irish Countess*****

This one, I think, is the longest of the short stories so far. There was no paranormal or horror elements. It was more of a murder mystery / thriller. Really reminded me of the Wilkie Collins stories that I have read, with just a touch of Arthur Conan Doyle thrown in ((view spoiler)[the trick window casement seemed Holmesian (hide spoiler)]).

Passage in the Secret History of an Irish Countess

Mixed feelings.

(view spoiler)[I enjoyed the beginning, and I was intrigued as to how it was all going to connect with Uncle Arthur's history, but (as sometimes happens to me) once the physical mechanics of the plot started taking over, I lost a bit of interest. (You mentioned Wilkie Collins, and an exception to this rule is his, "A Terribly Strange Bed.") That's not good, when you start losing interest during the climax. : -) But, I mean, we already knew that she survived -- it's her story, after all -- and once poor Emily was got into her bed, well....What I would have liked was to see the reaction of Arthur and Edward when they discovered whom they had killed, but of course Margaret wasn't around for that scene.

And of course it's always curious to see the old ways, where a boy's advances toward a girl are rejected solely because she detests him and not a bit because he's her cousin. (hide spoiler)]

**********The Bridal of Carrigvarah**********

I thought this one was a very powerful story.

(view spoiler)[Just when you think things couldn't get any worse, they did.

I would have liked a violent end to Dwyer though! (hide spoiler)]

The Bridal of Carrigvarah

(view spoiler)[I read this one on my Android which, if the truth be known, and there is no reason not to divulge the truth, previous to the time of my taking it up lay, as could plainly be seen, upon the table that also served as the steady base upon which stands my computer, both PC and monitor.

Powerful story, yes, but my oh my how many the words it took to tell it!<\spoiler> (hide spoiler)]

Brian wrote: "The Bridal of Carrigvarah

I read this one on my Android which, if the truth be known, and there is no reason not to divulge the truth, previous to the time of my taking it up lay, as could plainly..."

Yes, he got wordy in this one!

Passage in the Secret History of an Irish Countess

It was long for a short story but I enjoyed it. (view spoiler)[
It is always curious to see the customs of the times, though sometimes not so much from the POV of the women. I was caught up in Margaret's fears a little bit, when her letter for help was discovered. She had no one left to turn to and was completely at the whims of her uncle and cousin. What a scary position to have found herself. <\spoiler> (hide spoiler)]

******Strange Event in the Life of Schalken the Painter ******

Now THAT is why I wanted to read Le Fanu! What a fantastic story!

(view spoiler)[The description of Vanderhausen when he showed up to claim his bride was priceless.

I have looked to see if I could find a specific Schalken painting that might have inspired this story. But, I can't find one in particular. So many of those that I saw were close but not spot on.

5 STAR story! (hide spoiler)]

**********Scraps of Hibernian Ballads**********

Poetry! Blah! I skipped this one!

Part essay on Irish poetry and part praise for an Irish peasant, Michael Finley, a noted song-maker of the time.

Strange Event in the Life of Schalken the Painter

I read this one first a few years ago and liked it very much.

(view spoiler)[

Nothing has changed. It's a terrific story.

Poor Rose. (Although she seems to have come out of it all right.) Still, the terror she experienced. I was glad Le Fanu included the bit about the litter. Since he skipped everything about Douw actually telling her what he'd done, it helped to see her reaction to being taken away by the monster.

Want some goofy analysis like you'd get in a literature course? I've got one for this story.

Ok, when did Vanderhausen first appear? It was right after Schalken invoked Hell, yes, but (we can also assume) *during* the time he was rubbing the charcoal "upon his ample Flemish inexpressibles." So we could say that, in a way, Schalken himself gave life to the monster. Saying "hell" alone wouldn't do it -- everyone does that and no demons are brought forth. But to say it at the same time as he did what he did, well....Le Fanu must have had a reason to include that odd action.<\spoiler> (hide spoiler)]

Brian wrote: "Strange Event in the Life of Schalken the Painter

I read this one first a few years ago and liked it very much.

Nothing has changed. It's a terrific story..."

(view spoiler)["Although she seems to have come out of it all right."...I guess that depends on your definition of "all right". She either disappeared, never to be heard from again (assuming Schalken's vision was just a dream), or she was turned into a vampire. (hide spoiler)]

*****Jim Sulivan's Adventures in the Great Snow*****

This was the shortest of the short stories so far and Le Fanu brings out the humor.

I was reminded of "The Ghost and the Bone-Setter" in that the patois (snicker!) was a little rough from the start but once I settled in, it flowed very quickly. I always remember reading Old English poetry in a Brit Lit class at the University. When it was difficult to figure out a word, the professor made us say it out loud and pronounce it phonetically. That usually worked well in class...does not translate well though when sitting alone in a crowded coffee shop. "Check out the half retarded guy with the gutter Irish accent trying to read his Kindle."

(view spoiler)[ I LOL'ed when it was suggested that Sulivan committed suicide..."he has committed infantycide an himself"!

The priest made out well in this. When he found out he had to get rid of Sulivan's ghost he told them up front that it would expensive. It just got more and more expensive as the details came out. But, when it was determined that a mistake had been made, there was no mention of a refund. In fact, the priest put a small penance on Andy for marrying a widow too soon (a marriage on which the priest no doubt made a fee) and then made Sulivan remarry his widow again pocketing a fee. Funeral...bank, exorcism...bank, wedding....bank, penance....bank, second wedding...bank. The priest did well! (hide spoiler)]

The Bridal of Carrigvarah

Very wordy! I liked it though. For some reason it reminded me of Dickens. 3*

Strange Event in the Life of Schalken the Painter

Excellent fun! I loved what happened at the end. 5* (view spoiler)[ That was some creepy stuff going on when the door slammed shut and all that screaming. What do you think happened to Rose? (hide spoiler)]

Charlene wrote: "Strange Event in the Life of Schalken the Painter

Excellent fun! I loved what happened at the end. 5* [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[I think she had already been bitten by the vampire. He came back to take his bride and they lived happily ever after in the church catacombs. (hide spoiler)]

That's as good an idea as any. (view spoiler)[ What was the rippling water about though? I wondered if perhaps she had jumped to get away from the shadowy thing? (hide spoiler)]

Charlene wrote: "That's as good an idea as any. [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[I thought that Vanderhausen grabbed her and dove in. Remember, when he was being described, there was no noticeable rise in his chest from breathing, of course not, he was a vampire, and as likely as not, she was on her way to being one as well. So, no need to breathe, why not escape in the water? (hide spoiler)]

Excellent points. Thanks. :)

*****A Chapter in the History of a Tyrone Family*****

This was a really long short story. Which must mean at least one of the remaining three must be very short.

(view spoiler)[The story intentionally left a lot unanswered.

First, who was the blind Dutch lady and what was her relation to Lord Glenfallen? At trial, he refers to her as "Flora Van-Kemp", not by any title that she may have been due.

My speculation: He married this untitled woman when very young knowing it would not meet the approval of his parents and chose to keep her hidden away (on her agreement) abroad. At some point, they both agreed the marriage was a folly and agreed to forget the arrangement (unable to get a divorce for any number of reasons). She reneged on the agreement and came to him when blind only to find that he had married again. And then...hell hath no fury....

That seems to address the "Can a woman keep a secret" question to my mind.

Another question left hanging was the manner of Lord Glenfallen's death, throat slashed in a locked room with the weapon under the body. It would seem to indicate a suicide as he left an oddly addressed letter that would no doubt have been a suicide note. But then again, there were unmistakable voices raised in anger behind that locked door leaving open the question if the ghost of Flora could have taken his life. Flora had used the same weapon earlier. Or were the voices just Glenfallen in his apparent madness?

Would he have committed suicide knowing that documents proving his "innocence" in the matter were en route? Or was that also just some creation of his deranged, stressed mind?

What were the contents of the letter he left on his desk? No explanation?

Any other ideas? (hide spoiler)]

Jim Sulivan's Adventures in the Great Snow

I really enjoyed the humor in this one. 3*

*****An Adventure of Hardress Fitzgerald, a Royalist Captain*****

This story, as indicated in the title, is an adventure and has no dark or supernatural elements.

Set during the Catholic / Protestant wars, the story follows the attempts by Captain Hardress Fitzgerald to reunite with King James' troops after being dispersed following a battle at Boyne.

I thought it was a fantastic adventure story.

(view spoiler)[I was a little confused by the ending though. I did not understand the motivation of the soldier in helping Fitzgerald escape execution. I feel Le Fanu intentionally left this open to interpretation saying only "in revenge for the most grievous wrong which one man can inflict upon another!". Any ideas? (hide spoiler)]

*****The Quare Gander*****

This is another humorous short story that, like "Jim Sulivan's Adventures in the Great Snow", is based on the superstitions and naivety of the Irish peasantry.

BTW, I was not aware that Ireland went through a period of temperance.