Nothing But Reading Challenges discussion

This topic is open for discussion about Ink and Bone by Rachel Caine



Book synopsis:
In an exhilarating new series, New York Times bestselling author Rachel Caine rewrites history, creating a dangerous world where the Great Library of Alexandria has survived the test of time.…

Ruthless and supremely powerful, the Great Library is now a presence in every major city, governing the flow of knowledge to the masses. Alchemy allows the Library to deliver the content of the greatest works of history instantly—but the personal ownership of books is expressly forbidden.

Jess Brightwell believes in the value of the Library, but the majority of his knowledge comes from illegal books obtained by his family, who are involved in the thriving black market. Jess has been sent to be his family’s spy, but his loyalties are tested in the final months of his training to enter the Library’s service.

When he inadvertently commits heresy by creating a device that could change the world, Jess discovers that those who control the Great Library believe that knowledge is more valuable than any human life—and soon both heretics and books will burn.…

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Brittney and I will be reading this and would love for others to join us!

Yes please feel free to join.

I finished the series I was reading so this is what I am going to start next.

I have this sitting on my bookshelf from the library and would love to join in!

Welcome Pam and Elise. Emily and I will be glad to have you read this with us!!

Great, guys! I'm looking forward to it!

I'd love to join!

Cool, Abby! The more the merrier.

I'd love to join. I've heard great things about this book.

I'd like to join, have to find a copy of this book now!

Welcome, Lindsey and Trent! I've heard good things too!

I'd love to join in,I just need to find a copy myself :)

Hey, Lady Inquisitor! Hope it's not too difficult too find a copy so you can join us!

Do y'all have any reading schedule proposed for this buddy read (haven't done a buddy read before,so not quite sure was the procedure is)?

Hi, Elise! Glad you're joining is. Since this one's informal, we were thinking we'd just read at our own pace. Unless you guys would prefer a schedule. I think as long as everyone says how far they are at the start of their post and hides major spoilers (https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...), we should be fine. Brittney and I agreed to post a few times (like 3 or 4) while reading with our thoughts at that point, but however much you guys have to say/ want to post is fine.

Emily wrote: "Hi, Elise! Glad you're joining is. Since this one's informal, we were thinking we'd just read at our own pace. Unless you guys would prefer a schedule. I think as long as everyone says how far they..."

Sounds great! Looking forward to diving in tomorrow after work =)

Exactly what Emily said. This is going to be a place to talk about the book also to pose questions of you like to. It is going to be very relaxed. Just remember to hide any major spoilers just in case someone isn't is far into the book as you are.

Just a friendly reminder to everyone that has joined this buddy read that we start today. Enjoy reading!!!

Hope everyone enjoys starting this! I got an early start reading this morning, so I'll kick the discussion off.

Up to Chapter 2 (14%).
I'm enjoying this so far. That prologue- this book started with quite the unique and disturbing bang, didn't it? (view spoiler)[Having someone destroy a one-of-a-kind, priceless book (by eating it no less), certainly got me, as a book lover, involved in the story. (hide spoiler)]
Rachel Caine has created a very interesting world, where (view spoiler)[everyone is encouraged to write, but the populace isn't trusted to chose what to read. Where people achieve "immortality" through the preservation of their journals, but printing of books isn't allowed. Where the library is in charge of everything by controlling knowledge and censoring books. (hide spoiler)] I am finding a few things a little confusing and wish some more explanation had been given about some points of this world, but I'm guessing that will all get cleared up as I continue.
This is definitely fulfilling my first requirement for any dystopian book- that it make me think, that it shine a light on elements of our current society. So far this book has me considering things from how I choose what to read and to what ideas to give merit, to the importance of libraries in our society, to the proliferation of authors, bloggers, reviewers, YouTubers, etc., to why writers write.
I find this quote from page 2 to be very thought provoking: "For a perversion of knowledge is surely worse than a lack of it."

Emily wrote: "Hope everyone enjoys starting this! I got an early start reading this morning, so I'll kick the discussion off.

Up to Chapter 2 (14%).
I'm enjoying this so far. That prologue- this book started w..."

Made it to Chapter 2 myself this evening =)

I kind of like how we are thrust directly into the world without much explanation. It does definitely lead to some confusion at first, but it makes me that much more engaged in the story as I try to pick up on these explanations later on (I'm also a huge fan of nonlinear story telling, which is probably why).

There are some great quotes in this novel so far. The one you picked from the early pages is great. I think the whole first half of Thomas Paine's letter at the end of Chapter One is so eloquent as well. Perhaps my favorite is "A mere accumulation of information is not knowledge, and a treasure of knowledge is not, in itself, wisdom" (pp. 47).

As an avid reader, just the topic of the novel is great and engaging. I love how there is definitely some social commentary going on even though this is a very AU world Caine has created. The idea that the media/learning should not be controlled by the select few. Granted, there are plenty of media outlets in today's society I would rather disappear in a puff, but the fact that they are out there and I am allowed to read it and form my own opinion based on different sets of information is so empowering.

Definitely liking it so far. I can't remember if I've read anything by Caine before, but I like her style so far.

I am also at Chapter 2 (14%)...

This book definitely got my attention with the Prologue. (view spoiler)[When the ink-licker destroyed a ancient book by eating it. Wow that just hurt reading it. I am an avid book reader and I don't know what I would have done if I saw something like that happened. What would you do if you ran into an Ink-licker? (hide spoiler)]

There are some wonderful quotes in this book so far. I highlighted several but I think the one that sticks out the most to me is on page 47 - "But there is no wisdom without knowledge, no progress without danger."
This is so true in life. You are not going to get anywhere in life without expanding your horizons.

I wish there would have been a little bit more character development with the family but I guess there is a lot more reading to be done so that might change. (view spoiler)[I also noticed that death tends to follow Jess around. I wander if this is going to be a theme throughout the book. (hide spoiler)]

I like that Emily, Elise and I all chose different quotes to post. It just shows the diversity within people. :)

Brittney wrote: "I wish there would have been a little bit more character development with the family but I guess there is a lot more reading to be done so that might change."

I agree here. Aside from Caine just saying how polar opposite Brendan and Jess are, I wish we would see it more. But I love (view spoiler)[how Jess comments on his father crying as he is dropped off to head for training to work in the Library. (hide spoiler)] It's such a quick comment, almost as if it's tossed in there, but it speaks a lot about his character and their relationship in one sentence.

There are a ton of great quotes so far. I highlighted (on a digital copy) both of the quotes you two shared as well.

The social commentary is fascinating. How this different world that Caine has created acts as a foil for our own. One thought I had while reading was this: I find the ease with which anyone can now post their thoughts on the Internet or self-publish their writing to be generally a good thing. But sometimes I worry that we are being flooded with quantity over quality. I suppose the salient point, however, is that each of us is now more able to choose for ourselves what we consider to be of quality.

I agree that there could have been more character development and more showing rather than telling with regards to the family and their relationships. However, as what we've read so far is basically just the introduction to the story (and since Caine had to introduce so much about the world as well), I can understand her wanting to keep it shorter.

Brittney- (view spoiler)[If confronted by an ink-licker destroying a valuable book, I would definitely try to steal the book to donate to those who would care for it. If it was just a regular book, I would still be disgusted (as in my opinion, books should never be destroyed- someone can always get value out of them), but I probably wouldn't act, just leave. I'd certainly be tempted to give them a talking to, but with someone like that, I doubt it would be effective. (hide spoiler)]

Up to Chapter 5 (36%).

That "Ephemera" before Chapter 4 certainly intrigued me! I am starting to get a little disinterested in the rather boring training and the petty drama among the postulants. So I'm glad to have this mystery introduced.
This world sets itself up for some great conflict and morally ambiguous characters because I can see things from both the Library and Burners' points of view. Neither group seems to be completely good or bad to me. Hopefully this book (and series) will live up to that potential. And now we learn (view spoiler)[that Wolfe supports the printing of books! Could he make a good ally if/when Jess decides to take on the Library and change the way his world functions? (hide spoiler)]

I'm a little disappointed in Jess' character development. I wish the conflict of interest he is feeling, the internal struggle between being loyal to his family or the Library, was explored a bit more.

I'm enjoying how the author uses real historical figures- including some lesser know ones (like Danton)- in the alternate history of the Library and the Burners.
I've noticed that no fiction books have been mentioned- all the books have been old scholarly texts. I wonder if fiction is supposed to not really exist in this alternate universe- if due to (view spoiler)[Gutenberg being killed and printing never developing, (hide spoiler)] fiction never developed as an art form either. Hopefully that will be explained and explored at least a little bit.

Wolfe says, "calculated politics and unthinking rage— make no mistake, the two are sometimes hand in hand— are the greatest threats knowledge can face." (pp 57). Do you guys agree with this statement? What do you think is the greatest threat to knowledge (in our world or in that of the book)?

Emily wrote: "There are a ton of great quotes so far. I highlighted (on a digital copy) both of the quotes you two shared as well.

The social commentary is fascinating. How this different world that Caine has c..."

There definitely seems to be a trade off between the ease with which we communicate and the quality of what we now have at our fingertips, but it does make you appreciate when you find something of true quality (be it a blog, a book, an opinion piece, a well done news article/segment, etc).

With the character development and (view spoiler)[ the ink licker, I do like how Brendan immediately brings it to Jess's attention when the ink licker kicks the bucket. It's another one of those small instances where Caine manages some character development in a small mention. But just the thought of someone eating the last copy of a book written definitely made me cringe. Maybe not enough to want to kill him/wish him dead, but enough to make me mad. (hide spoiler)]

I am up to Chapter 5.

The Ephemeras are definitely the most intriguing part of this novel for me so far, especially in the past two chapters. We learn a little bit of history about (view spoiler)[ Morgan and Wolfe (hide spoiler)], both of which I find more interesting than what's going on with Jess's training for the library. I agree with Emily that some of the petty arguments and resentments between the postulants is a little tiring and boring. For instance, (view spoiler)[ if a whole buttload of potential candidates have already been kicked out, why do they still need to be sharing bunks? It would defuse the unnecessary drama between Jess and Dario that really doesn't add much to the story for me (hide spoiler)]. While the training itself has been a little so going, I think (view spoiler)[ the task that Jess gets from his father, and the appearance of his twin is definitely interesting. Unfortunately, it isn't explained much at all, which adds intrigue, but also frustrates me some as it's another avenues still left unexplored and explained at this point (hide spoiler)].

What do you guys think about the alchemy/methods used by the Library? It makes it difficult from me to suspend my disbelief when reading, turning this a bit into a fantasy novel for me. Especially, as Jackie points out, it's set in the future. The development of this alternate world is a lot slower than the progress in our society, due to the constraints and limitations set forth by the Library.

For Emily's question:
Wolfe says, "calculated politics and unthinking rage— make no mistake, the two are sometimes hand in hand— are the greatest threats knowledge can face." (pp 57). Do you guys agree with this statement? What do you think is the greatest threat to knowledge (in our world or in that of the book)?

I'm not sure where I stand on Wolfe's point of politics and rage. In today's society, I think the greatest threat of knowledge is how dependent we've become on technology. I've noticed the younger generations learn how to do less and less, as they have the technology that does everything for them (for example, students are no longer thought cursive writing, and instead learn typing in elementary grades). If we stop learning how to do things, we will eventually lose our creativity to develop these new technologies, and the knowledge along with it.

Jackie- I agree with you that the justifications of the Library are very interesting, especially since their core mission- preserving knowledge- is something almost all of us book lovers would agree is a good thing. I'm very curious about the Burners for the same reason. While I would never agree with terrorist tactics, their goal of more freedom and rights is certainly one I understand.

Elise- The Ephemeras are definitley what is holding my interest so far as well. I hope we continue to learn more about why this world is the way it is, as well as more about the characters and their backgrounds.

I have mixed feelings about the alchemy being included, On the one hand, I love fantasy, and I like how the methods of the Library are based on alchemy, which was a real practice in the past and a precursor of chemistry. On the other hand, it might have been more interesting if the author had used real world technologies instead, exploring which technologies developed in this alternate universe and which the Library allowed to exist and made use of. But I'm going to enjoy it for what it is, a mix of dystopia and fantasy.
As for it being set in the future but in a less developed society than our own, it makes sense to me that the Library's discouragement of the free exchange of ideas and knowledge would have a very dampening effect on innovation. I also wonder which technologies the Library chose to actively suppress for their own reasons, which they considered to be "folly".

I find your point about technology and knowledge to be a very interesting and intelligent one, Elise. As our skill sets get more and more specialized, do we lose out in the bigger picture of knowledge and innovation?
I would answer my own question with fanatacism and bigotry as being the greatest threats to knowledge. I feel that when people hold beliefs that cause them to ignore certain facts and be unwilling to listen to the opinions of others, it hinders them from gaining knowledge and prevents intelligent discourse.

I am up to Chapter 5.

I am not gonna lie to ya'll but I found myself losing focus a lot during reading most of the last few chapters. The only things I really enjoyed and found quite engaging were the Ephemeras. I like the quote at the end of the Ephemera with Jess's Mother/Father. "Always remember the words of Decrates: The reading of all good books is like conversation with the finest men of the past centuries". I would love to meet Conan Arthur Doyle or Jane Austen and be able to sit down with them for a day. There we be so much to be gained by doing that.

To Emily: I had not even noticed that there has been no fiction books used until you pointed that out in your post. It sounds like the Library doesnt feel like you can learn from ficiton books so they are using mainly Literary text so far. That or they dont want them to exist maybe. Just some random thoughts.

My Question to ya'll would be this: If you could own one book that was an original what would it be and why?

Mine would probably be The Sherlock Holmes mysteries by Conan Arthur Doyle. I love the way he investigates crime. How every thing is so easily explained away when it looks like it is going to be so bizarre.

I will end with this "Tota est Scientia-Knowledge is all" Thought ya'll would enjoy that one. Also have ya'll figured out I am a Texan yet consisdering how much I use the word ya'll!! LOL :)

Brittney wrote: "My Question to ya'll would be this: If you could own one book that was an original what would it be and why?"

Only one book?!?!?! That should be heresy! ;) I honestly don't think I would know until I put myself into that position and had to make the spur of the moment choice, but I can narrow it down to two novels: either Timeline by Michael Crichton or Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams.



Brittney wrote: "I will end with this "Tota est Scientia-Knowledge is all" Thought ya'll would enjoy that one. Also have ya'll figured out I am a Texan yet consisdering how much I use the word ya'll!! LOL :) "

Seeing that quote definitely made me smile. I'm from the south, so I can appreciate the y'all =)

Emily wrote: "I would answer my own question with fanatacism and bigotry as being the greatest threats to knowledge. I feel that when people hold beliefs that cause them to ignore certain facts and be unwilling to listen to the opinions of others, it hinders them from gaining knowledge and prevents intelligent discourse. "

This is so sure, and it's so sad that even in such an advanced society that we like to classify ourselves as "civilized" we can't seem to get past it.

Up to chapter 8

This novel is definitely taking a turn plot wise in my opinion, and I do feel it picking up speed a little more and pulling my interest back in, even if the plot seems to get more and more fantastical. I think I misspoke before when I referenced the alchemy in this novel. It isn't the alchemy that makes it hard for me to suspend disbelief but rather what Caine classifies as alchemy. The real issue I'm having difficultly wrapping my head around is the Obscurists, the Mirroring technique, and now the inclusion of translation which was a kicker. What do you guys think of that whole ordeal and what it starts to say about the Library and the people running it?

And then the letter that is brought to Jess's attention. (view spoiler)[It seems Brendan is getting deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole. To me, it looks like Jess's father has decided to give Brendan a run at the family business after all, and that perhaps he isn't as against it as Jess thought. That definitely shocked me a little. (hide spoiler)]

I'm also seeing the start at perhaps a budding romantic relationship, but I'm hoping that is kept at a minimum. The world that Caine has created is so unique already and the plot is pretty extensive, so adding in a complicated element like that could definitely ruin it a little for me.

Brittney- If I could own an original of any work, I would choose Pride and Prejudice. Really I would want one of Jane Austen’s drafts of the novel. I feel like she’s an author who spent a lot of time working to make every sentence just right, and I would love to be able to see evidence of her writing process in her own hand.

Elise- To be honest, (view spoiler)[the whole translation business didn’t surprise me that much. It was in keeping with the impression I had gotten of the leaders of the Library- people who are far more interested in maintaining their own power over anything else and who see little value in the lives of people who are not useful to them. (hide spoiler)]

Up to chapter 9 (59%)
The plot turn that the book has taking is also interesting me more, as (view spoiler)[the postulants are confronted with the some harsh realities and the costs of the Library’s motto “Knowledge is all”. It’s also interesting to see how they work together and how Wolfe’s relationship with them has changed. (hide spoiler)]
Is anyone else feeling some major sparks between (view spoiler)[Wolfe and Santi? Maybe it’s all in my head, but I think they would make a great couple. (hide spoiler)]
I’m very worried about what will eventually happen to (view spoiler)[Thomas, once the Library discovers what he has been tinkering with in the basement. (hide spoiler)]
Does it bother anyone else that the author keeps mentioning this Library symbol, but has never actually told us what it is or looks like?
This book is still keeping me thinking. It’s sad to think about all the books, and art, architecture, and other wonders, that we as humans have lost over the millennium to war, natural disasters, destruction, and neglect. Of course, considering all the human lives that have been lost (and are still lost) to the same is not something I can dwell on for long.
I wonder how religion developed in this world. They’ve mentioned Catholicism and Islam, so they exist, but I wonder how they grew without being able to distribute the Bible and Koran. The author also hasn’t mentioned anything about Protestant religions- without the printing press, did the Protestant Reformation occur? Sorry, I’m probably boring you all with my ramblings- I’m a bit too interested in this alternate history.
I’m finding it very ironic that I’m reading this on an e-reader, since there seems to be an underlying message against them in this book. Of course, the mirroring is not exactly the same as ebooks, but I think it does make an argument for why it’s important that we continue to also print physical copies. I love the ease and expediency of e-books, but there is something about physical books, as well as practical considerations.

Up to chapter 12 (73%)
Wow this last section was intense! Especially chapter 9. I'm not sure I would be able to keep functioning in a situation like that, but I guess survival instincts kick in. I liked that Jess and the others didn't perform perfectly, but had more realistic reactions.
I've gotten far more attached to Jess as a main character as he's gone through the trials and tribulations of the last few chapters. I wasn't so sure about the romance between he and Morgan, but I actually think it's been handled well and has added to the story and character development. What do you guys think about both Jess as a main character and the romance?
I love how with this latest Ephemera, a bunch of pieces of the puzzle are coming together.

Up to Chapter 12

Emily wrote: "I’m finding it very ironic that I’m reading this on an e-reader, since there seems to be an underlying message against them in this book. Of course, the mirroring is not exactly the same as ebooks, but I think it does make an argument for why it’s important that we continue to also print physical copies. I love the ease and expediency of e-books, but there is something about physical books, as well as practical considerations. "

This is such an interesting insight! I hadn't thought of it, but it's so true. With eReaders and eInk, when you "turn the page" it erases the text and, almost as if by magic, replaces it with the next page. That is very similar to the way they pass messages between their Codexs and how they Mirror books. I'm a bit of a purist myself; I'll take a hardcover book over an ePub any day, but even I have an eInk reader and a tablet with both the Kindle app and Overdrive app (along with a both of other eReader apps). You have to love the portability, even if you don't get to spell the pages of a real book =)



Emily wrote: "I've gotten far more attached to Jess as a main character as he's gone through the trials and tribulations of the last few chapters. I wasn't so sure about the romance between he and Morgan, but I actually think it's been handled well and has added to the story and character development. What do you guys think about both Jess as a main character and the romance?"

I still don't feel a great connection with Jess yet, but he is definitely growing on me more now. He's having to struggle with what being in the "training" program has brought about, but he really hasn't had to face the duality between his love for the Library and the written word and his family business yet. (view spoiler)[Yes, the fact that Wolfe knows about his family business and the fact that he had to contact a cousin to help him out of the tight point in Oxford, have caused a little bit of tension, but the story's still been lacking a bit in this area in my opinion (hide spoiler)]

I'm still not sold on the romance yet. Apart from (view spoiler)[her talent as an Obscurist, we really haven't gotten much character development out of Morgan yet. Yes, we got a little with her father, but not much, especially since her father had turned Burner, so there wasn't as much of a struggle there as if he was still the person she had left and wanted to return safely to (hide spoiler)]. I will admit though, I'm rather picky when it comes to romance in YA novels, especially series like this where I don't necessarily see the need to add it in.

The action and suspense have definitely been ramping up. It hasn't been at all what I expected (they have done very little actual "training" and more fly-by-the-seat on the job training, but it's still keeping my attention.

Finished
Think I'm going to rate this 3.75 stars.
So I found the last few chapters to be quite the downers! Lots of feels, (view spoiler)[(Poor Jess- that unintentional betrayal of Morgan was brutal! Poor Morgan! Poor Thomas- I REALLY liked him, so even though I saw what happened coming, it was still really sad!) (hide spoiler)] but it was all a bit too depressing to be enjoyable for me. Things at the end seemed pretty hopeless. But despite that, I'm eagerly looking forward to the next book because I got so sucked into the world and attached to the characters. Hopefully, events in it will be a bit more favorable and optimistic!
I wish Wolfe's and Jess's thought processes had been better explained there at the end. Did anyone understand why (view spoiler)[Wolfe gave Jess such a lousy appointment? I thought Jess had proven himself better than that to Wolfe, despite his family connections. And why was Jess so quick to accept it when he had realized what the library was really like? I know he didn't want to go back to his family, but you think he would have had some hesitation after what the Library did to Thomas! (hide spoiler)]

Emily wrote: "So I found the last few chapters to be quite the downers! Lots of feels"

We definitely ended up on the same page with this book! I saw Thomas's plot resolution coming pretty much all along, but still. It was such a bummer. Especially when you look at how Wolfe was handled (although I realize he gets special treatment), although really he isn't well off either.

Emily wrote: "Did anyone understand why..."
(view spoiler)[It was - I think - to keep Jess as far away from him as possible. While Wolfe might not have known the full extent of the conversation with the higher ups, and granted the position was assigned before the meeting, I think Wolfe had to know, after Jess's involvement in everything and with his family business and all that happened, that they were going to try to use him against Wolfe. Perhaps not as a full on spy, but for something. Especially after everything with Morgan too (hide spoiler)]

Oh, ok- thanks for the explaination, Elise. That makes sense.

Really enjoyed discussing with guys, Elise, Brittney, and Jackie!

Finished the book. I rated it a 3. I'm glad the plot started to pick up in chapter 8 and 9. I was starting to get frustrated with the training of the postulants.

To Emily:

I was wondering the same thing about the Library symbol but then I looked at the cover of the book and noticed the outline around the I in Ink and the B in Bone. That might be the symbol...

(view spoiler)[I definitely saw what was coming to Thomas. I was still sadden by it. I was really enjoying his character. The only thing I can think of is that he might not be dead, they might have done the same thing they did with Wolfe when he disappeared for a year. Just a thought (hide spoiler)]

I was not expecting the relationship between Wolfe and Santi. But I am not opposed by it. I think they made a great couple

I was a little disappointed with the ending. It kept so many questions unanswered. (view spoiler)[Was Jess actually talking to Morgan on the Codex at the end of the book? Are we going to find out more about where Wolfe went when he was missing for a whole year? Also I did not like the appointment he got from Wolfe at the end. (hide spoiler)]

*********THIS BUDDY READ IS BEING REVISITED!***********
Start date; June 3, 2018

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I will participate in this buddy read. I’ve been wanting to get caught up on this series.

I'm interested to join ! I bought this book a year ago and never took the time to read it :)

Caroline wrote: "I'm interested to join ! I bought this book a year ago and never took the time to read it :)"

Great! Are you on a team in the Tower Teams VI challenge?

oops forgot to post earlier but i'm in for team draco :)

Great! I’m on Team Tonks.

Howdy everyone! I'm in for Team Hermione Granger. :)

I've been wanting to read this! I'll join for Team Ginny Weasley!