The House of Hades discussion

No, I actually love Nico even more. He was always my favorite character, and not being a homophobe, that hasn't changed. I don't care why everyone's hyping about his sexuality, but I, for one, don't give a damn.

NO! I STILL LIKE NICO IF ANYONE CARES THAT HE'S GAY SO WHAT! HE IS STILL SAME OLD NICO.............. unless you have a problem with that if so reread the books!

No, you're not alone! If you don't like Nico after... Well, after what happened, you are not a true fangirl, in my opinion.

I still love nico just the same, if anyhting i love him more after reading house of hades, not cause he is gay but because he was and is still a good person as proved by the way he treated bob

No way. I still love Nico and I will always love Nico. And if you hate Nico now just cause of the fact he is gay well you can just take your hate and go far far away. Somewhere where I won't have the temptation of strangling you preferably.

Anamika wrote: "Is there anyone else who agrees with me that Nico is actually a good character and Rick kind of spoiled his image by adding something unnecessary?"

If it is necessary to point out that one person is straight, it is necessary to do the same to another.

i don't care. so far i tried to match him up with girls, now i am gonna match him with boys. simple. he is a great character and lets not judge anyone based on their sexuality.

Nico DiAngelo is awesome!! One of my favorite character.

Anamika wrote: "Is there anyone else who agrees with me that Nico is actually a good character and Rick kind of spoiled his image by adding something unnecessary?"

Nico was one of my favorite characters throughout the whole Percy Jackson series, and I liked him in this series as well, until his "confession". I don't find this suitable for like 9-12 year olds. It's not like I hate him, but I can't ever think the same of him for now on. I agree with you, Anamika that Nico was a great character but was definitely spoiled by Riordan adding in this unnecessary part. I don't mean to offend anyone, but that is just my thought.

I still like nico even if his gay.Like rick riordan said in his interview anyone can be a hero

First I didn't like Nico really much, but after house of hades I really liked him, everything I didn't like about him became very obvious. I understand him much better now and like him more. and he's so cute <3

I love Nico, he is awesome and sweet!

I love Nico! He's still one of my favourite characters, and I think I love him MORE now that so many people are judging and hating on him.I feel like I understand his motives and why he did some of the things he did. It makes me so sad that some people feel the need to judge people in everyday life, as well as fictional characters. They can't change who they are, so accept it and get over yourselves!

Why does it matter what Nico's sexuality is? He's still a great character, and if he's gay so what? It doesn't change anything really.

Anamika wrote: "♫~Kelly~♫ wrote: "Anamika wrote: "Is there anyone else who agrees with me that Nico is actually a good character and Rick kind of spoiled his image by adding something unnecessary?"

Nico was one o..."

I agree. I started the PJ series last August, and I thought it was more of a children/middle school book, but I'm considering the HoO to be more a YA now. My 9 year old sister just finished the PJ series and is currently reading the Lost Hero. I don't find it okay for a 9 year old hearing about gay/sexual content. She doesn't understand these things, and I don't think its right for an author to put these things in a children's book.

♫~Kelly~♫ wrote: "I agree. I started the PJ series last August, and I thought it was more of a children/middle school book, but I'm considering the HoO to be more a YA now. My 9 year old sister just finished the PJ series and is currently reading the Lost Hero. I don't find it okay for a 9 year old hearing about gay/sexual content. She doesn't understand these things, and I don't think its right for an author to put these things in a children's book. "

If you have no problems with the heterosexual relationships in the PJO books, you shouldn't have any with Nico's CRUSH (sex wasn't even mentioned) on Percy. But Rick himself sums it up better (my emphasis):

"I am committed to writing appropriate books for the middle grades. This means no bad language, no gratuitous or explicit violence, and no sexual content beyond what you might find in a PG-rated movie – expressions of who likes whom, holding hands, and perhaps the occasional kiss. The idea that we should treat sexual orientation itself as an adults-only topic, however, is absurd. Non-heterosexual children exist. To pretend they do not, to fail to recognize that they have needs for support and validation like any child, would be bad teaching, bad writing, and bad citizenship."

Anamika wrote: "Is there anyone else who agrees with me that Nico is actually a good character and Rick kind of spoiled his image by adding something unnecessary?"

Yes. There are many. Find them in one of the many other discussions about this exact same topic.

no Nico hating allowed!!

Maya wrote: "no Nico hating allowed!!"

I agree!!

Yeah!! It's not okay to judge someone like that. It's like, "Oh, I didn't know Annabeth had gray eyes. I don't like her now." Nico is who he is and there is nothing wrong with that.

Matthew wrote: "If you have no problems with the heterosexual relationships in the PJO books, you shouldn't have any with Nico's CRUSH (sex wasn't even mentioned) on Percy. But Rick himself sums it up better (my emphasis):"

There was definitely no heterosexual relationships in the PJO series, which is why I said I found it to be more appropriate as a children's book. To even state that Nico was gay, is already crossing the children's book rating boundary. It doesn't matter that Riordan didn't say the word "gay" or any other sexual word, but he stated enough to say what he meant. "I" just don't find it appropriate for children to be learning of this kind of stuff in a children's book. If Riordan wants to state this kinda stuff (which I still don't approve of), put it in a Young Adult book.

Maya wrote: "no Nico hating allowed!!

Yeah!! It's not okay to judge someone like that. It's like, "Oh, I didn't know Annabeth had gray eyes. I don't like her now." Nico is who he is and there is nothing wrong with that."

I am not "hating" on Nico. I'm not "hating" on Rick Riordan either. I'm saying that "I" don't approve of him putting these kind of stuff in a children's book. "I" don't like the fact that Riordan made a character gay, but I ESPECIALLY don't like the fact that he did so in a children's book. This is a discussion, so you can't assume everyone will be on your side. This is very controversial topic, and I'm sure there will be arguments on both sides. There is a fine line between "arguing" and "hating".

Why should it matter if Nico is gay or not we have lots of gays and lesbians in the world who are real. Whats the deal if a fake character is gay? Nico is still cool in my eyes a little creepy but still cool.I understand its in a childrens book and I agree but to a certain point as long as Nico doesnt try and put the moves on Percy.No Nico haters allowed!!!!!

♫~Kelly~♫ wrote: "Matthew wrote: "If you have no problems with the heterosexual relationships in the PJO books, you shouldn't have any with Nico's CRUSH (sex wasn't even mentioned) on Percy. But Rick himself sums it..."

Um, Percy and Annabeth, Grover and Juniper, Silena and Beckendorf, Sally and Paul… did we read the same books?

I also recognize it is possible that what I meant by "heterosexual relationship" and what you understand it to mean are two different things, and my meaning was "lost in translation". What I meant by that was two characters of opposite sexes having feelings for each other. I realize in hindsight that it is possible that what I wrote could be taken as the consummation of a heterosexual relationship, rather than the simple presence of romantic affection. As I mentioned in my previous post, Nico's feelings towards Percy are limited to just that—feelings— and words, which is even less than, say, Percy and Annabeth, who have kissed several times. And besides, The Heroes of Olympus was near the childrens' book/YA boundary even before the Nico revelation, and even though they still lie on the children's books side, the slow movement towards YA territory would have likely gone ahead even without Nico coming out.

P.S. Oh, I just realized, there are mature references even in The Lightning Thief, with an (albeit very vague and tame) domestic violence/spousal abuse reference towards the end.

Pardon, I was confusing "heterosexual relationships". I don't like going into these topics. I see what you mean, but I can't change the way I feel about these things.

Christopher wrote: "Why should it matter if Nico is gay or not we have lots of gays and lesbians in the world who are real. Whats the deal if a fake character is gay? Nico is still cool in my eyes a little creepy but ..."

I am NOT "hating" on Nico. Hating would be like going, "Nico sucks now that he's gay! I will forever hate Riordan and Nico!" or something like that. I never said I hate Nico. He's still a cool character, in a controlling the dead and ghosts kind of way, but I can't feel the same way about him anymore. I'm just stating my opinion on the matter, which is not hating.

I thought that Nico being gay wasn't really something that big...
I mean, he has a crush on Percy, so what?
I actually think that Nico's pretty brave, admitting something he kept for so long like that. I think Nico's really cool.

Kelly: I wasn't referring to you. And I didn't mean hating, as in, hating on. I meant hating, as in not liking. Which, is just my opinion so everyone else do what you wish. You can have your own opinion, I don't care. I just don't agree, and that's my opinion.

Hannah: I totally agree with you.

He is the same Nico and I still love him. Who cares what happened! He is still a loved character by many! :)

This turn of events did not bother me. It was unexpected and not really necessary, but the characters will grow and it does not bother me.
And the books began as children's books, but readers grow and the characters grow with them and they are no childrens anymore. And I liked that Rick will take this risk as a writer, knowing that there might be a bit of controversy on this point. It was weird and surprising because I was not expecting, but nothing more. It does not change my opinion at all about the character or the series.

I admit it was a shock (my friend accidentally let it slip before I even got House of Hades) but seriously, I don't get the big deal. Gays/lesbians are born gays/lesbians. It's like skin color; you don't have any control over how you feel or most of what you look like. Actually, after finding out about Nico, I support gays! There's nothing wrong with it! A lot of you might say otherwise, but this is my opinion, and I am entitled to it.

To be honest, I like Nico more now. Sure, I feel sorry for him; he'll always be an outsider. But that makes him seem more, I don't know, human. Like, I know they're demigods, but they're all like, "Summoning water! Charmspeak! Changing species!" (not that there is ANYTHING wrong with that) and there are gay controversies all over the news, and it made Nico seem more a part of human real-life civilization.

Like I said, I am entitled to my opinion. And geez, that was really long!

Laura wrote: "I still love nico just the same, if anyhting i love him more after reading house of hades, not cause he is gay but because he was and is still a good person as proved by the way he treated bob"
Aww Bob :( and I really agree with what you said. He is just Nico even a better nico because he could be himself.

Carthya wrote: "♫~Kelly~♫ wrote: "Matthew wrote: "If you have no problems with the heterosexual relationships in the PJO books, you shouldn't have any with Nico's CRUSH (sex wasn't even mentioned) on Percy. But Ri..."

That's different. If you watch any cartoon a decade ago, I doubt there'd be any gay stuff in it. I don't think children should be learning about sex and gays and all that stuff til' their at least 13. The way the world works nowadays...

♫~Kelly~♫ wrote: "That's different. If you watch any cartoon a decade ago, I doubt there'd be any gay stuff in it. I don't think children should be learning about sex and gays and all that stuff til' their at least 13. The way the world works nowadays... "

There was nothing in House of Hades about sex, only attraction. And there was plenty about attraction in tv even 50 years ago (ever heard of The Jetsons? It was a cartoon from the 50's. And the teenage girl was CONSTANTLY obsessing over some boy).

The question is: If it's ok to include a boy that has a crush on a girl (nobody cared when they thought Nico had a crush on Annabeth), why is it not ok to include a boy with a crush on a boy? There's no sex involved, only attraction. And kids experience attraction at very young ages (sometimes as young as 3) long before they have any interest in sex.

Julia wrote: "♫~Kelly~♫ wrote: "That's different. If you watch any cartoon a decade ago, I doubt there'd be any gay stuff in it. I don't think children should be learning about sex and gays and all that stuff ti..."

"I" just don't approve of a guy liking another guy. A girl or guy having attractions to the opposite sex is fine with me, but I just don't like the fact of a girl or guy having attractions for the same sex.

♫~Kelly~♫ wrote: ""I" just don't approve of a guy liking another guy. A girl or guy having attractions to the opposite sex is fine with me, but I just don't like the fact of a girl or guy having attractions for the same sex. "

Fair enough. But the fact that people don't approve does not mean it's harmful for kids to know about.

You don't have to approve. But whether you approve or not, gay people exist. Excluding them from stories (whether fiction or non-fiction) is the same as pretending they don't exist. Pretending people don't exist doesn't help anybody, but it hurts many. It isolates those people by creating the impression that they are the only people in the world who feel the way they feel.

You don't have to approve. But do you want to hurt people who are gay? I'm guessing you probably don't (most people don't). Do you want other people to feel isolated and miserable? Probably not.

I'm guessing that what you want is to simply separate yourself from a reality you find uncomfortable. We all do that in some way. Can you tolerate a little discomfort in order to allow some kid to feel (for a short while) like they are not alone in the world? Because that was the reason Rick made Nico gay. All of his characters are intended to be relate-able to somebody who is real.

If a real, live, gay person saved your life, would you be offended to learn that they are gay? Of course not, you'd be too happy that they saved your life. Anybody can be a hero - that's the message. Would you prefer the message be "Anybody can be a hero, unless they're gay"?

I'll say it again, you don't have to approve. But can you at least understand why Rick did it? It wasn't his intention to shock or make anybody uncomfortable. It was his intention to make somebody feel like they belong in the world. Isn't that worth doing?

Julia wrote: "♫~Kelly~♫ wrote: ""I" just don't approve of a guy liking another guy. A girl or guy having attractions to the opposite sex is fine with me, but I just don't like the fact of a girl or guy having at..."

You bring up a fair point. I understand that these stuff in the world do exist, and I'm just gonna have to live with this. But when you put this stuff in a fictional world, it just gets me pretty upset. I don't think that children should have to worry about these things until their parents have taught them of these things when their older. I personally never went to a public elementary school, so I've never heard talks of this stuff at that young of age. Even now in Middle School I've heard very brief discussions on this.

I understand why Riordan did this, but it just made me upset that he did. 'I' don't like reading this stuff in news and television, and when I hear that like my younger sister could be exposed to this stuff already? I just....I can't believe it.....

Anamika wrote: "Julia wrote: "♫~Kelly~♫ wrote: ""I" just don't approve of a guy liking another guy. A girl or guy having attractions to the opposite sex is fine with me, but I just don't like the fact of a girl or..."

Yes, I agree with that, Anamika.

Carthya: yes. Totally agree.
It's no different from a guy and a girl liking each other. There is no inappropriate aspect, so why shouldn't young kids know about it? it exists, right? That info isn't going to pollute children's minds at all. You're entitled to your opinion, Kelly, but I think kids should be exposed to it so they won't just have stereotypes when they find out later. People are people no matter what. Just people.

Actually, I think OP's story about how it upset her is evidence that kids should know about same-sex attraction much earlier, not later.

If a 5 year old sees two people kissing, they don't care what sex they are. If they ask about them, you say "they love each other". That's a concept that little kids understand, and that's all they need to know. When they become teenagers and start thinking about sex, that's when they might start wondering what gay people do, and that's when it might be a bit disturbing.

But simply seeing two people who love each other hold hands, or kiss, or even knowing that they live together doesn't hurt anybody (of any age) unless they have some preconceived idea that it's wrong.

The shock comes from living with one idea in your mind for so long, and then having that idea proven false. If you raise kids with the idea that boys only love girls and girls only love boys then, sooner or later, that idea will be shattered with traumatizing results.

Anamika wrote: "There are hundreds of other things to show that one kid is not alone.Why this?This book is read by many children,it's just polluting their mind. "

Why not this? I've known enough gay people to know that when they realize they are gay, and that a lot of people think that's wrong, it dominates everything they think about.

At that point, anything else that might torment them seems insignificant. Trying to connect with them with other commonalities is just not going to be as affective.

I don't care about Nico's preference, I've had a major crush on the kid since he walked in with his Mythiomagic or however you spell it cards and I still do. If Nico were a real person, I'd try majorly hard to sway him back, not because I have a problem with him being gay, because I want him all to myseeeeelfffff :3

heheheehehehehehe, my Nico, hehehehehehehe

*cackles evilly*

Anamika wrote: "Well why this?Not all children are the same.This might even end up into serious trouble.It also gives me goosebumps whenever I think about it.And Carthya how exactly doesn't this not pollute minds?"

Now you're just deflecting the questions. I've answered (at least 2x, this discussion alone) why having a gay character is good for readers (at least some readers and not bad for the rest). You've claimed that it "pollutes minds" but can't substantiate that.

Knowing that a group of people exist does not pollute anybody's mind. There are millions of people worldwide who have been exposed to this reality (many of them children) with no bad effects whatsoever.

The only effect that is even close to negative is that initial shock, which has no lasting effect.

So, please elaborate, how exactly does Nico being gay pollute minds?

Ive never really been a huge fan of Nico really. I always thought he was kind of a jerk. But when I read HOH I liked him so much more because it explained why he is the way he is.

Courtney wrote: "Ive never really been a huge fan of Nico really. I always thought he was kind of a jerk. But when I read HOH I liked him so much more because it explained why he is the way he is."

Exactly.

Anamika wrote: "But it forms new bullies.That's what I mean.Not everyone takes Nico positively and they abuse.The people who were abused take revenge and it ends up into a serious problem. "

It does not form new bullies. Bullies are bullies. You're either the kind of person who treats people bad, or you aren't. One book isn't going to change that.

Actually, history suggests that it could reduce some bullying. In recent decades there have been many people who fought against equal rights for gay people... until they learned somebody they love is gay. That puts things in a new perspective. And I'm talking about adults, who are generally much harder to change than kids.

Riordan created a character that readers love. Now that character is gay, forcing people to decide if their opposition to homosexuality is more important than their love for this character. People will either stand fast on their opposition, or they will see it in a new light. That results in either the same number of bullies or less.

Kai wrote: "NO! I STILL LIKE NICO IF ANYONE CARES THAT HE'S GAY SO WHAT! HE IS STILL SAME OLD NICO.............. unless you have a problem with that if so reread the books!"

EXACTLY! I don't understand what the problem is! Who cares about his sexuality? Wouldn't he still be the Nico who visited Bob and convince him to help Percy and Annabeth in Tartarus?! Where would they be without him? Honestly, the HoH made me like Nico more. It justified his character, and explained his conduct.

Courtney wrote: "Ive never really been a huge fan of Nico really. I always thought he was kind of a jerk. But when I read HOH I liked him so much more because it explained why he is the way he is."

Exactly! And, he visited Bob and told him to help Percy. Without Bob, Percy and Annabeth would've been dead. And, Nico did all of it. He went to Tartarus alone, and found the doors of death. The book made me like Nico so much more.

Anamika wrote: "Well this book is not read only in one country of course.Especially in places like India,it pollutes their mind.The children later begin to abuse each other with just this.It later becomes a seriou..."

If you feel that your friends will not like then do not suggest this book to them. But growing up they will have to move on to mature contents, you cannot forever shy away from those issues.