Fringe Fiction Unlimited discussion

I was recently asked by a couple of readers about why I had chosen to write my novels in third person when so many other Young Adult novels are in first person. I was somewhat taken aback by the question. It made me wonder if readers of YA had come to expect a first person narrative. I thought I'd ask everyone here their opinion on the matter, as well as which voice they prefer to read and why.

To me, writing in the third person allows me more freedom in fleshing out scenes and characters. I don't like the idea of restricting myself to one character's perspective. Not to say I won't ever write a novel in the first person, but so far the stories I want to tell are better served in the third person.

for the most I enjoy reading third person mostly for the simple fact that you can get the whole experience of the book. every character is more fleshed out than a first person narrative, or at least I've come to think so.
some stories call for first person narrative, others for third, but for the most part I prefer to read and write third. every once and a while i'l do like to do something different, and first person is just kind of that.

I like both, it depends on the story. Sometimes it's fun to be in the dark about what the other characters are thinking or doing, and other times I want to know what everyone is doing. I don't think you have to write first person in YA, though I did but it was due to the nature of the story. I've read plenty of excellent YA books that are written in third.

I think readers have come to expect 1st person narratives, indeed. (And/or the use of present tense, while we're at it.)

If you feel 3rd person does the job better, by all means, go with it. There's nothing more annoying than forcing yourself to write something you aren't convinced of.

Yzabel wrote: "I think readers have come to expect 1st person narratives, indeed. (And/or the use of present tense, while we're at it.).."

I hear you on present tense. I recently read the book "Wake" that was written in present tense and it made me feel like I was reading a synopsis or a screenplay. It bothered me so much that I didn't continue with the series, but that's just my personal preference. It may be just all the stress-filled memories I have of all those hours spent agonizing over writing a 2-page synopsis of my novels while submitting to agents and publishers. ^^

I'm not a fan of YA but the YA I read weren't in first person POV so I didn't know it was a trend in YA.

Reading: Personally, as long as a book is well written, I don't mind the POV, but present tense creeps me out. Although I've read a few, I still have problems with it. That said, I usually prefer a first pov and past tense.

Writing: When I joined an online writing course, we had to write something in two different POVs. I went further and aside from the usual first and third, I tried my hand at the second. Strangely enough, people who read my short story in all the different POVs, preferred it in the second POV. I just don't know if I could write a whole book in that perspective. Especially that for it to work, I also went present tense. /shivers
As for my preference in writing I'd say past tense, first POV, and sticking to one character only.

I almost always write in third person. I like being able to change perspectives, and first person narratives kind of kill the drama by letting the reader know the protagonist has very little risk of dying.

I've only written in 1st person once so far and it came out fairly well if I do say so. It's actually a story called 'Waking Up' and is available to read on my profile on GR.

Other then that I usually write in 3rd person or in Narrative, which I find to be easier.

Hi,

I reviewed your book and was so glad it was in third POV. I can't stand 1st POV. I can't get into the book. If I am interested in a book, I go on Amazon and read the sample chapters and if a book is in 1st POV I don't buy it. I agree that most YA and NA romance is in 1st POV. I have no idea why this is the trend. I have found very few YA and NA romance that are in third POV. I like third POV because you get to see inside every character's head.

Definitely prefer third person when reading and writing. Reading first person is ok for a change of pace. I have no idea what second person point of view is. Can someone clarify? I don't ever remember reading present tense but I'm curious. If anyone has a link to a sample I'd like to try reading it.

@M.D. It's the one used for books where you choose what you will do next. It was also used in some video games. It's much more invading than first POV.

If you permit I'll copy paste my short story. That will give you a much better idea. (It's taken from my blog on GR anyway.)

Second person POV, present tense, Science-fiction:

You watch the man in a straitjacket as the infrared camera follows him. He's pacing back and forth in the other room. It hadn't been easy to convince the others. They had taken you for a fool and hadn't believed a single word you had told them, arguing that no man on Earth could do what you said he had done. Well, you proved them wrong with that video tape, didn't you? Oh and what a proof it had been! Tricking the alien to summon the wind while you were hiding had required wits and great skills. Now, you can relax. He won't endanger anyone anymore, and he will never get out of this place alive—at least, not if you have a say in it. The alien stops walking and looks directly at you via the camera. Sweat trickles down your back. A disturbing idea crosses your mind, what if the alien can scan your brain. As if to answer your question, he smiles and walks away. With trembling hands, you take your pen and scribble notes.

By the comments its easy to see many don't like first person but it makes it so much easier to identify with the character while writing the story, at least for me. Anything I have written in novel form has been in first person, yet most if not all short stories are in 3rd person. I can't explain it other than I am the most comfortable writing that way. I think maybe after writing my first book and people asking me questions and assuming the character was actually me, made me appreciate writing someone in first person.

@Michael First POV makes it easy to identify with the character as you read too. For me, it always had been the best, to read and to write.

I've had many people tell me that they usually don't like first POV and yet they liked the POV of 'my' alien, maybe because well, it's different, and I stick with him through out the book, even if sometimes I could have tore my hair out. (But that was also a good part of the fun/challenge.)

Something that popped up, as I was talking about 1st and 3rd person with a RL friend this afternoon:

My friend said he enjoys 1st person more when it's applied to budding characters: kids, teenagers, and, in general, characters with little experience and/or influence on the world around them. On the other hand, he finds 3rd person more enjoyable when it concerns experienced people/people who already have a certain influence on their surroundings.

So in his opinion, a series heavy on politics and intrigue would fare better with 3rd person POVs. If any character in Game of Thrones, for instance, was to have a 1st person POV, it'd be rather Arya, perhaps Bran as well, but not Daenerys or Tyrion. Just like he wouldn't envision House of Cards with Urquhart's scenes told in 1st person.

(Then I said "yeah, and 1st person works well for YA because it reflects how teenagers are so self-centered and always 'I, I, I' about everything"... but I guess that's the grumpy jaded teacher speaking here. ;))

Richard wrote: "Speaking of POV... What is everyone's experience and/or opinion in writing 1st person of the opposite sex (from the writer). Two examples of excellent work spring to mind for me, both by women writ..."

I seldom write 1st person, so my advice probably isn't worth much, but I think a somewhat competent writer should be able to write a person from another sex—or at least, do his/her best to come as close as possible, and not rely on stereotypes.
It probably depends on the author, too. On how gender-oriented you are; on whether you're surrounded with people who seem to fit every stereotype or, on the contrary, don't fit any mould; on what you've been able to observe so far; and so on. I don't know, to be honest.

Yzabel wrote: "(Then I said "yeah, and 1st person works well for YA because it reflects how teenagers are so self-centered and always 'I, I, I' about everything"... but I guess that's the grumpy jaded teacher speaking here. ;))"

Yikes! I hate first POV when the author overuses the 'I' when there are so many other ways to say the same thing. Maybe people who dislike first POV are just reading the wrong books. Nothing will turn me away from a book faster than that. :(

Richard wrote: "Speaking of POV... What is everyone's experience and/or opinion in writing 1st person of the opposite sex (from the writer). Two examples of excellent work spring to mind for me, both by women writ..."

My preferences lean toward a male POV. It doesn't really matters what sex the author is.
It'd be hypocrite for me to say otherwise since I chose to write in the POV of a man.
They say you write what you like. Well, I guess in my case it's true.

I feel the same way toward a man writing from a female POV. If a woman can do it, why couldn't the opposite sex do it to? :P It's the story and how well it's narrated that counts, not the sex of the author.

G.G. wrote: "Yzabel wrote: "(Then I said "yeah, and 1st person works well for YA because it reflects how teenagers are so self-centered and always 'I, I, I' about everything"... but I guess that's the grumpy ja..."

That is the danger in writing in first person, over using the word "I". It took me writing a few hundred thousand words before improvement. As far as writing in another sex, I have a male in my local writing group who always writes as a female. In asking him about it, he says he is around females all the time at work and he finds it easier to understand them. I congratulated him as being the only male alive who understood things from a woman's POV.

Michael wrote: "I congratulated him as being the only male alive who understood things from a woman's POV..."

ROFL! We're not harder to understand than you are guys. :P

G.G. wrote: "ROFL! We're not harder to understand than you are guys. :P"

Haha. I swear, I know quite a few males who're even more complicated than the stereotypical female. Sometimes it's just crazy. I always end up rolling my eyes and say "and you had to go through such convoluted schemes, when you could have just asked directly?"

(You know, those schemes. Like, when the other person's supposed to understand what you're thinking, but you're sending all the wrong signals, so of course s/he doesn't understand and says something wrong, so you get mad at them... and it doesn't end. It tends to be presented as a typical female way of thinking, but really, some guys are seriously worse when it comes to that.)

Richard wrote: "Speaking of POV... What is everyone's experience and/or opinion in writing 1st person of the opposite sex (from the writer). Two examples of excellent work spring to mind for me, both by women writ..."

One book where I thought this was done poorly was Allegiant. The book was written in first person but split between the main female and male characters. There were times as I was reading that I honestly couldn't tell which of the characters was narrating. They had the exact same voice. I often had to go back to the beginning of the chapter to see whether it was Four or Tris that was speaking. This was one of the books I gave up reading halfway. However, a lot of people enjoyed it, so they may just not be bothered by the writing style as I was.

I prefer to write in third person, with the reader inside the character's head. My characters tend to have a lot of internal dialog, and that's written as if the character is silently talking to his or her self. The perspective is extremely tight, so that the character only ever sees or knows what that character would see or know.

I find it's a lot of fun to write that way, as it allows a lot of immersion into the story. And it lets the readers become very intimately familiar with the characters, and thus making them care more about the story.

Since my stuff goes online as a web serial, I write "episodes", each written from a different person's perspective. So the reader even gets to spend a little time inside the villain's head.

I guess I'm an easy person to please because I can read a book in either POV and it doesn't bother me :D

I prefer writing in first person. I prefer reading in first person. I it hard to relate to the main character if its in third person.

But that's just me.

I prefer reading in third because I like to imagine and experience the point of view of different characters. I also like writing novels in third for the same reason

But I usually write short stories in first as it can quickly get a reader attached to the character and into the action.

i prefer third omniscent or third limited. i'm not a big fan of first. only a few books i've read were done well in first. but ya, that's the trend these days with the current YA/NA books, all first.

I can read a book in any POV, no problem. My writing is all first person pov (sometimes pov switches between characters, like in my wip bk 2) because I just can't get into the mc's head unless I write/think from such a personal perspective. The only time I write in 3rd person pov is for my free prequel serial fiction to my novel. I'm so mentally invested in the prequel that I can get into the mc's personas easily for some reason. For my novel, The Unknown Sun, I knew the focus of this book would be on 1 mc and her story, so I chose 1st person. Yes a lot of YA is first person, is it a trend? Sure. Required? Nope. Personal preference...yep.

I've tried writing in 3rd but people tell me I switch POV too much - which is weird because I thought the whole purpose of 3rd was to have the ability to see from all sides. I've read a number of authors who have done this with success and I don't see how my stories are any different but then maybe it had to do with the reader and not my story.
Anyway, I find I prefer 1st for most of my stories because I can dig in deeper to the main character. I do have a few where I switch between the 2 main characters to get a little different perspective but I work hard to make sure it's clear and most of the story is from one perspective with short interjections from the other character.
I feel 1st just can be more fun. I like being a little snarky or adding little quirky lines that fit the character.

Sara wrote: "I've tried writing in 3rd but people tell me I switch POV too much - which is weird because I thought the whole purpose of 3rd was to have the ability to see from all sides. I've read a number of ..."

wut? the folks don't understand third omniscent then. unless they assumed it was third limited. you must have a poor beta reader group...

first pov is hard for me to get into, because sometimes the mc suffers from author's voice, and i'm not in the thoughts of the mc, but the author using the mc as a vehicle for their agenda, thoughts, desires, and wishes. then the story becomes mary sue/gary stu fantasy and i have to put it down.

I hate when you can tell it's the authors head and not the character. It's really hard to read a character that does things that don't seem natural for that character.

That can happen in third limited too... heck in can happen in third Omni too. It depends on the author, not only on the pov.

There's 3rd omni subjective and 3rd omni objective. Subjective allows for a lot of commentary from the author, objective doesn't. It just depends on what you want.

Douglas Adams - subjective 3td omni.

Neil Gaiman - objective 3rd omni (for most of his stories).

I write my NA's in first person. I do it because my characters are full of angst and the story is really about how they develop and grow. I think it helps the reader understand how their perception of others influences their decisions and how it changes as they mature. From my point of view, NA is about a time in one's life that is very ME focused. The first person pov hammers that home.

I rewrote my first two books from third to first. I was happier in the end. I was able to connect with the character more.

As for tenses, I can't stand present tense. It's painful to read. Not my thing at all.

All of they above. It depends on how it starts to pan out as I write. I like description and narrative and then I usually add dialogue. Recently I wrote in first person and it's not bad actually.

I rewrote a story (ya psychological/sci fi) from first to third limited. I was fine with it but sales suffered. I guess it depends on genre. ya tends to be in first it seems and does better as such. I hated the story presented as it was given the scope I had. oh well

I prefer third person both in reading and writing. I like to get different perspective from different people. Not too keen on first person,find too much internal dialogue/thoughts boring and absolutely loathe present tense...I stopped reading Patricia Cornwell cos she changed to present tense.

I write in first person past tense. I use little internal dialogue. Yes, there is a narrator who is generally older than the characters and is looking back but over time I have learned to keep in more in dialogue between the characters. I might try third person one day, but for now, I enjoy first person. And as some have suggested earlier, I find it much easier to become the characters in first person.

I prefer to write in the third person, although I did a novella recently in first and enjoyed writing it more than I thought I would. It does give you the opportunity to get into a character's head and play around with the whole "unreliable narrator" thing, which is fun.

Reading-wise I don't have a particular preference, although I don't like books with multiple first-person viewpoints unless they're very distinct from each other - otherwise you can be left at the start of each chapter wondering "So, which character is this now?" The latest "Iron Druid Chronicles" novel suffered from this, in my opinion.

I'm definitely not sold on the current vogue for writing in the present tense. It doesn't add anything to the narrative at all, and to me it just reads like "I originally wrote this as a film script and then adapted it into a novel".

C.G. wrote: "I was recently asked by a couple of readers about why I had chosen to write my novels in third person when so many other Young Adult novels are in first person. I was somewhat taken aback by the qu..."

Third person limited, imo. That said I am giving first person a try in my current wip.

Justin doesn't care if Justin reads in third person but..lol I'm kidding. I don't mind reading or writing but it depends.

Justin wrote: "Justin doesn't care if Justin reads in third person but..lol I'm kidding. I don't mind reading or writing but it depends."

Ever read a book in second person? I had a book like that once. I think it was How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying: The Dastard's Guide to Fame and Fortune. I ironically found it in the self-help section, not knowing it was satire. Stupid jr librarians...

I prefer to read third person, but first is okay, though I have no wish to write it. Close third lets me get as much inside a character's head as first would, and doesn't limit me as much in word choices.

Can't stand stories told in present tense. It feels unnatural and strained. I'm reading a book now that has tiny sections of present tense, no more than a page, that take place late in the main character's life, while the rest is in past tense in his youth, and that is tolerable. The book is so good otherwise that I can get past that choice on the author's part.
Gutenberg's Apprentice: A Novel

Amber wrote: "I prefer to read third person, but first is okay, though I have no wish to write it. Close third lets me get as much inside a character's head as first would, and doesn't limit me as much in word c..."

I actually like reading present tense. I will admit it can seem a bit sophomoric, and come off like a 14 year old girl's whiny journal, but when done right present tense adds an aura of "tension" that you just can't get with past tense.

Maybe that's just me (I'm willing to bet it is). I always get the feeling in the back of my mind that since past tense has already happened that the character (whether they made it through the novel or not) is now in a place where they're cool with everything. To me, that takes the tension out of it.

K.P., I've never read a full length book in 2nd person, I think it'd get kind of tiresome after a while, but I've read and written short stories in 2nd person. It's hard to do and not seem bossy. Too often it just seems like the writer substitutes "you" for "I".

As for the main topic at hand (lest I be accused of going off topic for responding to two other comments) I like writing in both first and third person. It really just depends on the story.

Obviously the third limited allows you the ability to jump anywhere in the world, but still feel intimate with your characters. Sort of like a "best of both worlds" type of scenario, but really I think this form is most successful in books with large casts.

Otherwise, if you're just going to focus on your main hero and a few others, what's the point? Why not just make it first person and really see the world through your characters eyes? The best comment a writer can get is when the reader refers to the narrator as the author.

I can see where some would be shy to write in first person for this reason, because no one wants to write an f*ed up POV and have people think "Wow, that author is bat shit crazy."

I would guess 1st or 3rd POV should be determined by if your story is character driven or plot driven. So here is how I sort of determine what to write in. Not a hard and fast rule, just gives me a launching pad.

Character driven, one main focus: First person.
Character driven, large cast: Third limited
Plot driven, one main focus: third limited
Plot driven, large cast: Third Omni

Novel over.

Nathan, I find your general rule for determining POV an absolutely excellent, basic break down of what to consider. (I may have to use this in my classroom...)

I absolutely love the immediacy of a first person piece and have done a number of short stories in first person. It can come across as limited if the story is not developed enough around the character, but that close link to them can create such a fantastic character as well as allowing the author to utilize the unreliable narrator, which I personally love.
That being said, I do tend to write a fair bit in third person as well and, as Nathan said, this tends to be because the story is more plot driven.

Overall, I suppose I don't have a preference, it really does depend on each piece but I'm happy in either. Part of it is actively considering which would come across best but part of it also seems to be just writing and seeing which works better with my characters and plot.

My book is written in first person. Another author said they can be contrived when the character has to listen behind a door or something. She asked if I ever had to figure out how to tell something since it was coming from my MC and I said no, it was all natural. She said - then you chose the right one.

Belle, I agree on your book. First person works beautifully. Kate has a motive to tell her story. I think that matters in first person. Do I as a reader believe this person would want to tell his or her story?

Thanks, Amber! It just felt right that way.

Just came across this and thought it would be a help to those here - http://diymfa.com/writing/the-last-po...