North & South discussion

Chapter 11 has a great deal of new content. Spoilers ahead for those of you not up to this point.

Here we really get to know Mr Benson, the hunchback. And we're introduced to his sister, too.

What do you think of these two?

Ok, now we know that Ruth has had sexual relations. She still seems quite a child, however. It's almost as if she doesn't truly grasp the magnitude of 'sin' she has been caught up in. Does she fully realize how utterly evil and unforgivable her sin is in the eyes of the society she lives in? I think she is more caught up in the sorrow of being abandoned and in the hope of finding solace and meaning in raising a child.

What are your impressions?

EG has given the character "Ruth" an "ignorance" standards of behavior or of wrongdoing and naïveté that is most profound.

I don't think she realizes the potential harm that the Benson's are placing themselves. This danger to themselves was really brought home to me when I read that brother and sister received children of the community into their home on Sunday's, a home that would be deemed an unfit place for children with Ruth in the house.

I think you are right that she is more sad of having been abandoned than sensibility of how she has violated the standards of behavior of her own time. It's almost as if she were newly arrived from the planet Mars and knows absolutely nothing about life as it is lived in that place and time.

Some of my "lighter" reading includes historical romances and if Ruth were the heroine of such a book, I can just imagine review after review where she is contemptuously called TSTL by that readership.

I realize that this book is a social commentary by EG and I have to keep reminding myself of it. It is a challenge actually to like a character with Ruth's profound lack of imagination and profound ignorance.

Ruth is naive certainly, but I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt. She was orphaned at a very young age, with very little female influence, except for the cruel dressmaker, Mrs. Mason. She's really had no one to guide her in the ways of society. In this era, young ladies were very ignorant about sexual relations. She was always being told how beautiful she was & I think when Bellingham showed her kindness & interest, she used it as a means to escape her dismal existence. Not thinking of the consequences of her actions or that he would expect them to live together as husband & wife. I truly think her ignorance of life in general made her go off with him like that.
I think Mr. Benson was a benevolent man. After all, he didn't know her or anything about her & offered to take her into his home when she was abandoned. His sister at first was worried about her having a baby & what would become of them with an unmarried girl in their home.

Donna,

I also think that EG had to make Ruth's life circumstances what the are (orphaned, uncaring guardian, apprentice of a cruel dressmaker, etc., no female influence/guidance) to make her I unknowledgeable to a very profound degree in an effort to make her sympathetic to the readers of her (EGs) time and to comment on something that she sees as a great wrong and injustice.

I think it may also be important to remember that Ruth is only 16. Her experience of the world and life is so limited. And children that age are easily swept into all-consuming states of fervent emotions. I think she is overwhelmed by being abandoned by the one person she thought cared for her. I see her being a bit wrapped up in her own heavy feelings - much like any modern teenager would be with their first 'love' relationship.

All-in-all it is very hard to harshly blame Ruth for any great sin of omission or indulgence. I think Gaskell is doing a great job of showing how very sweet and gentle Ruth is despite her 'abhorrent sin.' It really makes society's instant and severe condemnation look rather ignorant. Such cursory condemnation doesn't take into consideration either the specific conditions leading to the infraction, not the general and consistent nature or character of the 'sinner.'

Ok, I didn't see that one coming. You all said in the discussion of the chapters 6-10 that you couldn't see the kind of relationships Ruth and Mr. Bellingham had. I thought they did reside there together but I never caught an indication that they were sleeping together, especially when everybody who saw her, said she looked so innocent. I knew what the plot would be, because I read the description, but, reading, I never thought it would happen like this.

Considering her age, her dire situation, and the nature of her seducer, how 'guilty' of sin do you think she is in this case?

I don't think Gaskell could have made Ruth any more innocent than she did. On all fronts, Ruth still appears to be and acts like an innocent girl. Her shame doesn't even occur to her until the incident with the child.

At the same time, it's hard to think that she didn't realize some major moral and physical boundary was breached in being so compromised.

Wonder what Bellingham told her as he did the deed? He's such a selfish slimeball. (Yes, that's the technical, literary term for his ilk. Lol.)

I don't look at her as guilty, but that's probably because I live in this day and age, where sex is a normal occurrence and out in the open. I do have a problem with 16 year old girls having sex, but not because I consider them (insert here that ugly world that starts with w), like they would be immediately considered in that time, but because I think they are too young and not mature enough to do the deed and deal with the consequences that may arise.

What I can't picture in my head (and I can really picture things, because I read a lot of romance novels, and not just the clean ones) is the actual act and her acceptance of it. I just can't put Ruth and sex in the same picture (probably because of all that innocence). That's why it came as a shock. I was, stupidly I might add, thinking they were just residing in the same room and that he didn't touch her. Gaskell is a master!

Now we come back to Ruth's innocence and naivete AND lack of guidance. She was so in love with him (or imagined herself in love) that she would do anything to please him. So it doesn't surprise me that it didn't hit her. She just wanted to make him happy and no cost was too great. I mean, just look at her reaction to the news about baby; she didn't feel horrified or ashamed, just happy to have a baby. I think she is just not aware of the social consequences of her actions.

I wonder that too! Although, she is so gullible that I don't think it was much of an effort for him. "Slimeball" is too strong and emotional a word to use on a man that I do not have any feelings for. He didn't impress me in any way, so I can't say I despise him. I'm totally indifferent, which is a new one for me. :D I just think he is a typical product of his time and upbringing, entitled and his mamma's boy. I say, good riddance to him, she is better off anyway. But, I'm afraid we haven't seen the last of him. It's still to early in the book for me.

Wow, I really outdid myself on this one. :D :D

Great comments, Samanta. Thanks.
I've been thinking about it, and it seems almost unbelievable to think that Ruth has had intercourse and that she doesn't seem to feel the profound nature of what she has allowed to happen.
I'm not convinced girls living in the country are completely oblivious to the fact of animal mating and therefore the concept of sex.
But, I do see that Gaskell has showed us how much Bellingham coerces her to do as he wants in every situation. It's easy to see him convince her that this is something she practically owes him. And, you're right, Gaskell also shows us how she feels impelled to please him. Her servile attitude is combination of his being a man, older, higher status, wealthier. And he utilizes all his advantages over her without batting an eye.

I'm sure he's representative of a huge segment of society at the time. So perhaps my disgust isn't so much personal as a broad repugnance of that brand of selfish, arrogant behavior. Especially as it pertains to women.

At least Gaskell gives us a few decent male role models in this story.

"I'm not convinced girls living in the country are completely oblivious to the fact of animal mating and therefore the concept of sex."

That is true, but I'm not sure how much of that Ruth got to see in her short years as a farmer's daughter. I got an impression that her mother was a gentle woman and kind of a lady (not in a entitled way, but just the way she lived her life and conducted herself). With the mother she had, I wonder how much time (if any) she spent with field workers, and if she could learn about the technicalities.

"At least Gaskell gives us a few decent male role models in this story."

I have, so far, only seen one. I'm waiting for those others to show up. :)