North & South discussion

~ Episode Four, Part 1:
Starting at the start of the episode, ending with Higgins telling Thornton of Mr Hales death.

One scene I always find very intriguing in this part of the episode is Thornton going to see Higgins, walking through the place where all the workers live. The slightly uncomfortable expression on his face does, I think, remind one that Thornton too was once in very unpleasant financial straits, and perhaps going to see Higgins brought back certain parts of his life that had been, if not forgotten, at least pushed to the back of his memory. And of course, I love the interchange between the two of them after he arrives at Higgins' house.

I also love that part when he gives money to that girl and that loving smile on his face when he does it :) Oh, I'm in love! :D :D

Samanta wrote: "I also love that part when he gives money to that girl and that loving smile on his face when he does it :) Oh, I'm in love! :D :D"

I love that too, so much! That smile is so sweet - and that girl very cute, I might add. The way he smiles when he gives the money to the girl is lovely and quite genuine, but even the barest moment later you can see how awkward and out of place he feels, being a master walking among the poverty that his workers live in. I mean, you really would feel a little bad about being rich, wouldn't you?

And how about that whole conversation between Higgin's and Thornton? I just adore that - it's a real mark of how far Thornton's come, that he can actually go to a worker and apologise for being unfair. Not to mention that line: "Well, it's not my proposal that we get on well together..." :D

Hahahaha...I think it was hard on both sides since they are on opposite sides and both very proud men. That scene was a bit funny to me.

Oh, I'm trying not to laugh the whole way through that scene, really. Well, either that or I'm just wanting to give both of them hugs for being so cute. And I love the final lines, they are just precious.
~ Thornton: "Was Miss Hale the woman who asked you to come to me? You might have said."
~ Higgins: "And you'd have been a bit more civil?"
~ Thornton: *glares and leaves*

LOL. :D Poor Thornton.

I love their relationship and how it changes at this point. It is a funny and sweet scene.

And when he is walking through I agree - it would be reminding him of what he used to know and what he has managed to escape through hard work.

Becca wrote: "Oh, I'm trying not to laugh the whole way through that scene, really. Well, either that or I'm just wanting to give both of them hugs for being so cute. And I love the final lines, they are just pr..."

I LOVE that scene!!! Such a good moment, and I agree with Soph, I love the way it changes from then on. :)

Speaking of changing from then on, how lovely and adorable is that scene where Thornton helps that little boy with his reading, and then makes that food scheme with Higgins? I always get little tears of happiness in my eyes in that scene - partly to do with the soundtrack at the end of the scene, I must admit - just because it's so beautiful, seeing them not only work together but joke and laugh together.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, I think when they filmed that scene there were sirens going off in Edinburgh the whole day, so they had to film it and then add in the audio later... That would have been tough!

Oh I was just about to say that about the little boy who was reading, but I didn't remember when it was. so didn't want to post in the wrong thread. That is SUCH a touching moment. One of my favourites!!

No worries it can get a little hard to orientate yourself in these threads, I know. That little boy is so cute, as is Thornton, actually, helping him to read. <3 He gets such a tender expression on his face when dealing with children. Am I the only one that always watches that scene at least twice? :) (I mean, really, how could you not...)

It's funny how he seems so hard to approach and to talk too, yet he so kind and compassionate to that little boy! I love that scene so much (but I don't rewind it XD). :) Haha, yes, it's easy to get lost, especially since it's been really long since the last time I watched it (gotta do something about that!).

That's one of the things I love about the scene - the different contrasts. First there's the contrast of Thornton's usual slightly intimidating demeanour to the way he acts with the boy. Then there's the contrast between his tall, dark form, the tiny figure of the boy, and Higgins very worker-like appearance. And then there's one other contrast, between the way Higgins and Thornton used to deal with each other, and the lovely, understanding way that they are now dealing together. I think it's all these contrasts together that make this scene so beautiful and wonderful to watch.

Oh! So true. I had never thought about all of those other contrasts. It's so brilliant the way they did that adaptation! I love the relationship between Higgins and Thornton.

Haha, I'm probably just enjoying over-thinking it, to be perfectly honest, even if all the contrasts I pointed out were perfectly true. Out of interest, have you actually seen the other adaptation? I'm pretty sure there is one, but I've little to no interest in seeing it. I mean, I couldn't imagine anyone but Richard as Thornton, or anyone but Daniela as Margaret... They are all so perfect, I simply don't need to see others in those roles.

You know, I think the relationship between Higgins and Thornton is one of the reasons the story resonates so strongly. I mean, not only is the romance aspect so beautiful and unique and intense, but then there are other parts of the story - like Higgins and Thornton's relationship - that add all those extra layers.

I haven't seen the other adaptation but I would really like to because it has Patrick Stewart in it. Captain Jean-Luc Picard of Marlborough Mills! How can you resist?

However, older adaptations usually bother me as the filming is almost never as good as now - too much fake inside lighting and cameras that are stationary.

But...Captain Picard...

Well, seeing as I don't actually know who Patrick Stewart is - should I? - I believe I can resist quite easily.

Yes, older films irritate me as well, depending on how old they are.

Kate wrote: "I haven't seen the other adaptation but I would really like to because it has Patrick Stewart in it. Captain Jean-Luc Picard of Marlborough Mills! How can you resist?


Oh wow! I have to see that. My little brother was a Trekkie and we all love Patrick Stewart's reading of A Christmas Carol. I can't see him as Thornton though. Not romantic enough. Maybe it's the bald head? Did he have hair or a wig at least?

Becca wrote: "Haha, I'm probably just enjoying over-thinking it, to be perfectly honest, even if all the contrasts I pointed out were perfectly true. Out of interest, have you actually seen the other adaptation?..."

I didn't know there was another adaptation! I would love to see it and compare :)

Oh no dear Patrick Stewart just doesn't fit the bill as a romantic hero at all but at least he has hair.

Funny you should mention that, I just ordered it from Amazon.

I'm a Trekkie too so I had to get it ;)

Qnpoohbear wrote: "Oh no dear Patrick Stewart just doesn't fit the bill as a romantic hero at all but at least he has hair.
"

...And the guy on the front is supposed to be Thornton? Oh HELL no.

LOL those pictures are never great, give it a chance ;p

:P Perhaps. But there's no way it's going to beat Richard Armitage's version. Especially as I've heard that it skips out the part where Margaret gets caught lying about her brother by Thornton. Such a key moment!

*shrug* I might try watching this version. Eventually.

Yes Becca, after all, I sit through Colin Firth as Darcy, so I'm sure you can make it through Patrick Stewart as Thornton.

Am I right Soph? ;)

:D True true. LOL.

Oh Louise.....

Let us now what you think! I want to order and watch it as well.

Funny coincidence: I went to see a stage production of Sense and Sensibility, and guess who was playing Mrs Jennings/Fanny Dashwood? Jane Booker - aka Mrs Shaw from the 2004 N&S series! It was pretty cool seeing her on stage!

Soph wrote: "Oh Louise.....

Let us now what you think! I want to order and watch it as well.

Funny coincidence: I went to see a stage production of Sense and Sensibility, and guess who was playing Mrs Jenni..."

That would be very cool! Lucky you. :)

I just ordered it actually Louise!

Ha! Given into temptation! If it helps, Patrick Stewart does have nice eyes.

The play sounds great, I love seeing them on the stage :)

Haha yes! I must have all adaptations - it's like a disease ;)

It was really really good! Very funny and well done. (do you know As Time Goes By Louise? If so, Sandy , Jenny Funnell, was also in it, as Mrs Dashwood/Mrs Palmer :) )

I have the same disease lol

I don't think I do know Jenny Funnell but it sounds good.

Here's the thing about Patrick Stewart, he is such a great actor it is impossible to not feel he IS the character he plays. So I don't care what kind of hair he has, he will be good.

(Not know Patrick Stewart? He is like a male Judi Dench to me, only possibly even more Shakespearian awesome!)

Kate wrote: "Here's the thing about Patrick Stewart, he is such a great actor it is impossible to not feel he IS the character he plays. So I don't care what kind of hair he has, he will be good.

(Not know Pa..."


LOL....Kate! Male Judi Dench :D :D :D

Becca wrote: ":P Perhaps. But there's no way it's going to beat Richard Armitage's version. Especially as I've heard that it skips out the part where Margaret gets caught lying about her brother by Thornton. Suc..."

Exactly. I reviewed this at Amazon US. The lie and the saving of her from the inquest were the key elements that brought Margaret to a humbler and more honest recognition of John. I just don't feel Patrick Stewart's intense longing for Margaret as you can't help but feel with Armitage. This version really falls flat in the romance department. A shame. But it's fun to watch a few scenes were the dialogue is from the book!

Trudy wrote: "Exactly. I reviewed this at Amazon US. The lie and the saving of her from the inquest were the key elements that brought Margaret to a humbler and more honest recognition of John..."

Indeed! I would be lying if I said I couldn't imagine North and South without the inquest issue - because I can - but before Thornton saves Margaret from the inquest, I think she's always perceived herself to have the moral high ground in their relationship, so to speak. And it just wouldn't be quite the same story, wouldn't have quite the same impact, without that dynamic being flipped around and Margaret learning what it feels like to know that a person you respect may think very badly of you.

I'll probably still give this version a go - thanks for the warning about it falling flat in the romance department - if only to see those dialogue scenes that you mentioned. But I think we can all agree that no other version could match the brilliant intensity of Richard and Daniela's performance. <3

Kate wrote: "Here's the thing about Patrick Stewart, he is such a great actor it is impossible to not feel he IS the character he plays. So I don't care what kind of hair he has, he will be good.

That's true. The library doesn't have this version so I can't see it right now.

I think it may not have been released on DVD until recently, but I am too lazy to double check the vague feeling. So maybe worth an interlibrary loan or purchase request?

It was available at Amazon last July. As such an old version, I wouldn't think it would be that readily found in libraries, especially when the 2005 version isn't even that well known.
As for Patrick Stewart as Thornton, I don't feel like he got the tender, silent , self-controlled aspect of Thornton. He was far too blustery for my vision of Thornton, and not half as desperate or lonely as Armitage was able to convey.
I don't think anyone will argue that, given the script he had, Armitage embodied Gaskell's Thornton with stunning effectiveness.

Trudy wrote: "I don't think anyone will argue that, given the script he had, Armitage embodied Gaskell's Thornton with stunning effectiveness."

Second that. :)

Becca wrote: "Trudy wrote: "I don't think anyone will argue that, given the script he had, Armitage embodied Gaskell's Thornton with stunning effectiveness."

Second that. :)"

Third that. ;)