Our Shared Shelf discussion

Hi there.

I'm just another average man and I want to share with you my opinion about this issue. So the question is, should we really be part of feminism? Well, it seems you women forget that we are the reason why feminism needs to exist. And you may say that not all men promote patriarchy, but that's not true at all. We are the result of the social rules that have been established before we were born. Aware of it or not, we're all part of it and we can't avoid to be. Stupid example: let's say there are 10 CEO's, 8 men and 2 women. So 3 of that men are not supposed to be there in an equal society. Now go tell them that they're fired for the sake of statistics. Anyway, is it even their fault? Not really. What I mean is that you women only should expect some passivity from us when you rebel against patriarchy, not help.

I mean, from the origins of mankind every civilization has been this way, and don't fool yourselves, the only reason was that our musculature was bigger than yours. Then things became more and more complex but by that time we already got used to the fact that men dominated and women were just complementary, so we developed intellectually and left you behind. And of course the original reason why patriarchy was instituted is now completely absurd (at least in developed societies), but...

Anyway, from the moment you're born society tells you that you must sacrifice yourselves for the common good or just try to explain you that you are naturally inferior because that's what religion says (the greatest idea males had in order to opress females), and unless you're really stupid you know that it's not fair and even counterproductive for society itself. So if some part of you doesn't want to kill us, you've got a problem.

But let's suppose we help you and come to statistical equality between genders. Would that be enough? After millennia of mistreating you? This is not about statistics. Even if you achieve that equality you would keep feeling weak and insulted, or at least you should. You need to fight us to achieve true equality, you need to prove yourselves that you are indeed powerful and that you don't need us more than we need you. And that's the truly difficult part. Every mistreated collective can just hate the opressor and attack it until they achieve what they consider fair. But you all have a father, or a son, or a husband.. That's why it's so difficult to achieve gender equality. But you know, no pain no gain.

So be honest, do you really want us to help you?

And I know that saying this is kind of ironical, but as our society is condemned to be politically correct you won't dare to say it, so take it as an exception.

Adam, you have a good grasp on why gender equality has been so difficult to achieve!

Firstly, you seem to reference mostly job and pay equality in the examples you give, but issues like violence against women, taking place all over the world, is not something that you can claim if achieved would in any way negatively affect men. While you can abstractly make an argument that more jobs for women = fewer jobs for men, issues like violence do not fit into that equation at all.

Also, copied from another post that I wrote on another topic:

"I'd like to point out the ways that feminism is not only about women, but about how gender discrimination in all of its forms should be eradicated. While the term comes from a desire to focus on women, this is because of the ways in which gender discrimination disproportionately affects women. But it does go both ways.

Sexism also creates what might be termed toxic masculinity. The stereotyped, idealized masculine body/mind is a problem for all men, forcing them to adhere to certain ways of being and behaving. This is a problem both for men and further contributes to sexism toward women. It also reinforces heterosexual and cisgender superiority, meaning that queer men and transgender individuals will be very deeply affected by standards of masculinity."

For more, that thread is:

What about men?

Hmm, intersting points. First, I think we need to remember that feminism means equality, and we can only get there together. Men can definitely play a part once they realize that inequality in jobs, status, pay, etc. is not only unfair, but not good for society as a whole.

Keeping the women of the world in inferior positions means half the population is underproducing, underachieving, and under developing. I guess some men would say there isn't enough, what? greatness? power? money? to go around to everyone, so they want to keep it all for themselves? Is that true? I'd be fascinated to hear more form someone who has studied matriarchal societies, some native american tribes, or time periods when/where gender was not so tied into social status. There must be some info out there. How did it work and why did it end?

These days, I often wonder if equality is even possible, or will we as humans always need to categorize ourselves and have some group to be 'better' than? Do we need to organize ourselves into gender, race, religious groups so we have someone to fight? A sad thought.

In RUN Ragged women have taken over under the banner of peace and equality, but quickly realize they've gone too far. I think you'd be interested in the story. Your questions about how women would react if they suddenly got control are really fascinating -- for example, if I've been beaten down for years, and suddenly have total power over my oppressor, will I take revenge or forgive and move forward for the good of us both? I don't know if I could take that high road. But when you are talking about an entire gender, your idea that we have fathers, sons, husbands we love should temper our anger and keep us moving toward harmony, right?

Here's what I think. Men who believe women are just as valuable, intelligent, and worthy as they are will see the innate honesty in feminism and not be threatened by it. Men who believe women should not be treated as inferior based on their gender should be happy to stand up and fight for equality -- by speaking up when they see discrimination, helping out when they encounter harassment, and by continuing to have honest and open conversations about the issues you raise. If women are the only ones 'fighting' this fight, it's more of an us vs. them. If women and men work together for the common right, the common good, and the common benefit, then we are all working toward equality.

Add reservations or quotas. Reserve number of jobs for females as per their ratio in the population. Don't let men take those jobs and don't let women take jobs from men. If men have 55% jobs reserved for them and females have 45%(figures can vary according to sex ratio) those 55% should be exclusively for men and the 45% exclusively for females.

Now domestic violence. I don't know how can anybody do that. We don't need to jail them or punish them, actually we need to ask them what if someone did the same to your mother or sister? I treat every female as I want my mother and sister to be treated, with respect and the equality. They need to realise the girl or women they are torturing is a daddy's angel daughter or a brother's adorable sister.

Please correct me if I am wrong

The participation of men is critical to successful feminism, in my opinion.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but what I took from your post is that unless women achieve equally through force without feminist men, then any achieved equality is false. As feminist women, we are teaching our sons how to be feminist men. Feminism doesn't just help women, either. It helps everyone because it means fighting for true equality for all.

"So if some part of you doesn't want to kill us, you've got a problem." Well, I guess I have a problem then because I have no interest in harming men, let alone killing them. I would wager a lot of us have a problem according to you. I don't want to subordinate men. That holds zero appeal for me. I just want to be free to pursue the career of my choice, be in public space without men acting as though they are entitled to my body, be in charge of the decisions made about my body, and not be held to double standards.

"Now domestic violence. I don't know how can anybody do that. We don't need to jail them or punish them, actually we need to ask them what if someone did the same to your mother or sister? I treat every female as I want my mother and sister to be treated, with respect and the equality. They need to realise the girl or women they are torturing is a daddy's angel daughter or a brother's adorable sister."

Or, they could acknowledge that I am an actualized human being independent of whether or not they have female family members.

It's tough to make them realise that. Not without force or punishment I said. And personally I think punishing them will make them hate females more. People understand things that are related to their day to day life far more easily than a thing reacted to any philosophy or fact. It is just what I think.

Related not reacted... Sorry for the bad English it's not my preferred language.

Kandarp wrote: "It's tough to make them realise that. Not without force or punishment I said. And personally I think punishing them will make them hate females more. People understand things that are related to th..."

I don't entirely disagree with what you're saying. But regardless of what they will gain from being punished, if a law has been broken, they should face the consequences of their actions. We can't neglect to punish men who do wrong by women just because "well, they won't learn anything from it so what's the point?" And in societies that do not have laws against this type of violence, I think one of the main goals of feminism is to ensure that women in those societies can be protected, hopefully through working toward a shift in policy there.

When I said that you should want to kill us it was just an expression.

About violence. If I hit you once it's not your fault. If I do it again you're an idiot. And of course I'm way worse than you, but you have no excuse to accept that. If you're not strong enough in order to appreciate yourself, that's your problem.

Yes, we can only achieve equality together. And when someone has the power he will be pleased to give you some of it... As always there are exceptions, but the rule is that if you want something you think it's yours don't expect the one who's stolen you that thing to give it back easily.

We all know that if instead of opressing poor people or poor countries we educated them and help them develop mankind would benefit. And at the long term erasing nations and working as a single world would be the best idea. But those who are in power don't give a damn about what benefits mankind. Same applies for gender inequality. This is not about philosophy, it's about acting in the real world. And the real world doesn't fit with what we expect from it.

Well well, Adam, I think this point of view ignores that we people are not determined by society nor are we determined by "biology". We are socialized in a society with partriarchal structures and norms but I think it is possible to break free and rebel against these social norms.

It's a question of reflection, education, discourse - and it depends on our decisions. As a guy you can decide not to take part in this lousy game. You can decide to use your privileges to support women instead of using them to further you own gain.

So if we look at your example with the company: no, it's not the men's fault that they have privileges. But the question is, what are men doing with their privileges and what decisions do they make? The male CEOs can use their privileges to let the things be as they are and only look for their personal gain. OR: they can use their privileges to make a change and do something against the inequality in the company.

I think for me personally it's a difficult question if I identify myself as a feminist. As a guy, I am part of the problem because I was socialized in a patriarchal society. But I can learn to change my views and behaviour. If I find patriarchal norms and even sexist views or behaviour in my own life, then I have learned these things from society where I was brought up. The good news are: it's not only necessary but also possible to unlearn these things.

And I think it should not be seen as a power struggle between men and women, but it could help to come into a dialogue between equals.

What it needs, is a constant dialogue with feminism. As a guy I wanna learn from feminism what needs to be done to reach the goals of equality and emancipation. That's why I would say, yes of course, men can be supporters and companions for feminism.

But it's not a matter of "Oh, I've seen the light and I will never be sexist again". No, it's a constant learning process. As a guy you have to confront your own involvement with patriarchy and you have to question society and its norms. You have to critically reflect the way you are part of this society. And you have to learn to think and behave as a feminist. We can do it.

"About violence. If I hit you once it's not your fault. If I do it again you're an idiot. And of course I'm way worse than you, but you have no excuse to accept that. If you're not strong enough in order to appreciate yourself, that's your problem. "

So, women who get caught in domestic violence deserve it? As someone who survived domestic violence, I will tell you that there are hundreds of factors that go into it, and that every situation is different. Some women die when they try to leave. But I guess that's their problem?

Adam wrote: "If I hit you once it's not your fault. If I do it again you're an idiot. And of course I'm way worse than you, but you have no excuse to accept that. If you're not strong enough in order to appreciate yourself, that's your problem."

First of all, even in Western culture, there are far more systemic issues that contribute to a victim's inability to come forward. For example, a mother who is being abused by her partner may feel that it is her duty to her children to remain because without him, she won't be able to feed her family. Women and children make up an overwhelming majority of the impoverished in the U.S. If we were to achieve greater equality in job opportunities and pay, it might be more feasible to suggest a woman take responsibility in her inability to leave an abusive partner, but that still doesn't account for emotional, psychological, and other issues and damages.

Furthermore, your comment does not take into account instances of "random" violence over which a woman has no control. Violence happens everyday in public, not just in the home.

Finally, women in societies that do not have laws in place condemning domestic violence, spousal rape, etc., may face even greater violence and even death when they defy any man.

Sascha wrote: "As a guy you have to confront your own involvement with patriarchy and you have to question society and its norms. You have to critically reflect the way you are part of this society."

The same thing goes for women :)

I'm not asking you to pardon them for what they have done but to teach them. Punishment won't teach anything. Our enemy is not religion, and definitely not the male society. Our enemy is the mentality that women are inferior and only good for some things which I ought not to mention. It's this mentality we need to change, pushing them with life imprisonment or any other brutal punishment will fill their heart with hatred. As they say darkness can't drive out darkness, only light can do that, hate can't drive out hate only love can do that.

I think that yes, they should, because feminism is trying to fix discrimination and unfairness to females so if we discriminate men from this, aren't we just as bad as the people who discriminate women?

The western society still has a large number of divorces. You shall see the Asian and Egyptian countries. That's the where the problem is at its peak. Moreover it's the mentality of women "How will I be able to feed my children?" that is doing the damage. Plus what will the society say (that's the problem of our pathetic society) they need to believe in themselves and their capabilities.

If you won't face it, you'll never know it.

"Katelyn wrote: The same thing goes for women :) "

Sometimes women who have internalized patriarchy are even worse misogynists than men. It's up to each individual to honestly examine the things they do that allow discrimination and then make changes accordingly.

All I'm discussing assumes that you live in a developed country. I don't expect Muslim women to fight their husbands, for example. I don't expect Muslim women to read this, in fact. I would just erase religion and force them to create a socially fair system. But before solving their problems which are way bigger than ours we should start here.

Yes, it's not easy to avoid violence in some situations. That doesn't mean you're not an idiot. Anything is better than being hit. I'm pretty sure your children would've prefered to be poor than to see their father doing that. And obviously the best solution would be not to come to that point, but if it happens you can't just stay there and accept it.

And what Adam is trying to say is that if a women is tortured or discriminated for the first time it's shame on the society and that person. But if it happens second time, then the fault is equally shared between the criminal and the women on which the crime was committed. Stand up for yourself and stop it. One time is enough to give you a lesson on how to stop that thing happening for a second time.

The person is who suffers discrimination and chooses to keep quiet about it no matter what the reason maybe, is doing a bigger crime than the criminal who discriminated.

Again, as someone who has actually lived that situation, with a child, I will say it isn't that simple. Telling me that my experience is invalid and I'm an idiot accomplishes what, exactly?

There is no universal experience when it comes to domestic violence. Each instance is as unique as the woman experiencing it. It's a gradual process that involves eroding self-esteem, isolation from family and friends so there is no one to turn to, and economic dependency so that leaving becomes incredibly difficult. Some men even impregnate their partners on purpose in order to bind them even further.

I'm not exactly sure why you're here. It doesn't seem like it's to learn anything. You have people attempting to show you nuances of the issue, but your response is, "Too bad. Idiots."

My mom suffered the same problem and I tell her she was an idiot, and she would be now if I didn't force her to leave. And she didn't do me a favour by suffering that. That's an extremely poor excuse. As your son I would prefer anything than seeinh that.

So your intention is to just call battered women idiots? I'm seriously trying to understand your motivation here. Your mom's situation is not a universal experience. Her situation is likely very different from mine which is likely very different from the next person's. There are different obstacles. There are different risks. Some women are more likely to be murdered by leaving than others. Some are more likely to be murdered by staying. Your experience is your own, but you have no right to victim blame. And really, that's all I'm taking from what you've posted.

Well, in fact I didn't mean to adress that problem here. But I don't really understand it. Unless you were lonely in the world and starving, why did you stay? There are guns out there if necessary. And you probably had family. Or you could just left the city, or the country. Apart from demanding him. I see lots of options, all of them better than suffering that.

My intention is to tell you that your life is not responsability of society. It's yours firstly.

Things are getting heated up here. Chill Adam and Erin. we all need to realise that circumstances are not always the same everywhere. A plan that works in the western society may fail miserably in the middle east. Adam is not insulting females Erin he is just saying anybody who doesn't stands up for himself is wrong. Yes, you shall never keep quiet against domestic violence but sometimes there is no other way. Honestly and unfortunately we can't do much about these cases, they need to stand up and fight and we will fight with them and for them. But at least start.

Hey Katelyn, nice to meet you! :)

I would say: yes and no. Of course there are some women who have internalized patriarchy and even sexism. And it would really help if these women would develop a more critical attitude towards their own involvement with patriarchy.

But on the other side, I think it is a question of power. And in patriarchy, men have power and privileges, women have not. So the conditions are different. Women start from another position than men. And that's why I would not say in general that women have to reflect and confront their involvement with patriarchy in the same way as men have to do it.

Because as a guy I can not feel what it means to suffer sexist violence and insult, I can not feel what it means to be slutshamed, I can not feel what it means to suffer under rape culture and the same is with all the other things women experience every day. So women suffer under all these things, men mostly are on the other side, they are perpetrators.

Therefore, I think it's important to point out that men can learn a lot from feminism and can change their views and behaviours towards women. But for women, feminism is a good tool of empowerment, to break free from oppression and fight for emancipation. And hopefully at the end of the day we will smash the whole thing up - together, women and men.

Do you already know this fine story which I wanna invite you to read, though it's a really long story it's worth to read until the end and it's fun because it even has Harry Potter content ;)

Hermione Granger and the Goddamn Patriarchy
If Hermione Were The Main Character In “Harry Potter”
http://www.buzzfeed.com/danieldalton/...

That's like saying white people shouldn't support other races because it means they won't have their advantage anymore.

Your privilege is showing, Adam. You might want to check on that.

Fact: women are more likely to be murdered when there are guns in the home. Guns are not a miracle cure all.

The way isolation works is that the abuser separates you from any source of support. You may have family, but they are out of your reach. Then there's the feeling of shame. Then there's the fear that if you do leave, what he will do to you would be worse than if you stayed. And if you have kids? Where do you go if you do leave? Not all women's shelters have room. Homeless women face astronomical rates of both sexual and physical violence, not to mention that it increases the danger for the children. "Just leave the country." Seriously? With what money? How are you going to get a passport? How are you going to travel? What are you going to do if you make it there? How will you gain citizenship? What if he finds out you're planning to leave, so he takes your kids and leaves himself?

You see a lot of options that aren't there. Every woman has different rationales for staying. Some get out after leaving the first time. I left and never went back. I am an exception. The average DV survivor goes back 7 times before being able to leave for good. 7 times. And this is just accounting for heteronormative relationships. I don't even have an idea about the dynamics in same sex relationships or gender nonconforming couples.

And let's not forget there are still attitudes that if a man hits us, then we clearly did something to deserve it. We just need to be better wives and we won't get hit. I'm not even getting into much and there's already so many variables here. I hope other people (men/women/trans/nonconforming) share their experiences here so that you can start to see just how complex this can get and why your "fix-all" suggestion doesn't actually fix anything at all.

Re: Guns: Having a Gun in the House Doesn't Make a Woman Safer
"Firearms have been touted as a great equalizer between the sexes. But in cases where self-defense matters most, women tend to find their own weapons turned against them."

It seems that there are a lot of opinions being put forth here. But opinions don't prove anything. So I'm just going to link to factual, well-researched, and cited articles when a false claim is made.

Lol Eman.... That's one of the definition of discrimination. That's why people discriminate. Because they think they are superior and they want to maintain that superiority.

Sascha wrote: "Hey Katelyn, nice to meet you! :)

I would say: yes and no. Of course there are some women who have internalized patriarchy and even sexism. And it would really help if these women would develop a ..."

I have read that reimagining of Harry Potter! Hermione is amazing, of course.

I definitely agree with everything you said. I didn't mean to suggest that men and women are coming from the same place in their confrontation of patriarchy, I just meant to point out that women are regularly complicit in the perpetuation of patriarchy as well, thought not in the same ways or to the same extent.

Nice to meet you, too! :)

Katelyn facts and figures become useless in real life situation. As I said before, there are different circumstances and we need to handle them differently

Kandarp wrote: "Katelyn facts and figures become useless in real life situation. As I said before, there are different circumstances and we need to handle them differently"

Right. And Erin is trying to explain to you how all of these situations are different, and yet the major response she is getting to that is "women who stay are idiots" and "stand up for yourself"

Facts and figures are incredibly useful. If getting a gun is more dangerous to a woman because it is more likely to be used against her than as defense, then knowing that fact might prevent her death. That is a real life situation.

That isn't a fact, that's common sense. And as I said Katelyn Adam wasn't insulting women. He was just saying that women need to stand up for themselves. The way he said this was wrong. Sorry if I hurt any sentiments was never my intention to do so.

So your explanation is that you depended economically on your partner and you let him treat you like shit for so many time that you found yourself lonely and lost. And in case there was any option you could avoid that, you were too worried about what the others will think about you instead of protecting yourself. If you don't see you did something wrong, well, ok. It's so easy to find excuse instead of facing that even that was not your fault you could've done something about it. And this is no victim blame, but I'm talking to the victim. And I think we both agree that this wouldn't have happened if your ex partner wasn't a son of a bitch so I thought there was no need to say it.

Adam wrote: "So your explanation is that you depended economically on your partner and you let him treat you like shit for so many time that you found yourself lonely and lost. And in case there was any option ..."

I just...I can't even. I literally. can't. even. Maybe someone else will take this up, but for the sake of my blood pressure, I'm done here.

This means I don't understand the variables? I think this means I don't accept you to stay behind that variables like they were physical laws and you couldn't change them of think with your own brain. But it's just my opinion, maybe you're right and you did your best.

I'm done guys.... Everyone is right everyone is wrong. It all comes down to where you are and in what circumstances you are. Have a nice day or night.

I don't think everyone's opinions are valid here, and not everyone is right or wrong. That fact of the matter is that until a comprehensive biography of Erin's life is published for you all to read, you cannot possibly discuss her experiences in the way you have been doing without coming across as incredibly disrespectful. She chose to use her experience as a means to give input into the question posed by the OP. She was met with derision and refusal to consider others' points of view. I don't think this is the community envisioned by Emma, or any of us who have joined.

Katelyn I think you need to read the comments again. I didn't say a word about Erin and her life. I didn't say anyone was wrong. Nor did I said anything disrespectful. Please do me a favour and read all my comments again from staring, I hope you realise what my true intention was.

I agree with you Katelyn.
I opened this topic because I thought I'd find a good hearted debate about why we MUST make men participate on feminism.
Instead, I've read several attacks, insults and worst of all, I've read some of these people shaming others without knowing anything about said person.

The healthiest wmthung right now will be to agree in our disagreement.
But I will tell you guys something, a story of my own: My grandfather has hit my grandma for years. Even since before I was born. And now, after almost 45 years of marriage, she's finally fighting back. Was she wrong to stay? I don't know. She was alone, without a job, and without education in a society where there was no chance for a woman to work in a well paid position without a higher education. On top of that, she had three daughters. So she stayed. Maybe she wasn't safe, and yes, she was being abused. But her daughters had a roof, food in the table and the three of them went to college.
Fast forward 30 years. Her youngest daughter married her high school sweetheart. She moved with him, had a daughter of her own. My aunt had her own degree, her own job, her own house. The second he tried to lay a hand in her she threw him out. The difference? She wasn't afraid. She knew she'd had a roof, food and shelter. She had her family's support. My grandma didn't.

Society show women that we do not matter if it's not for the solely purpose of serving a man. And I say serve in all the meanings. Cooking, cleaning, breeding and more.
That is why we need a change. It's not that we want to fire 40% of the men working. Is that we want our daughters to feel safe at school. To know that when you say 'no', it means it, and it's not a suggestion or a possible omission only because it's not what a man wanted to hear. It means that our girls can dream of becoming lawyers, astrounats or engineers as much as any man, that they're not forced by society to get married or have children.

And that has to come from both ways. Men and Women. We, the next generation. We need to make this change. We need to teach our children, our students, our friends. That we are equals. That we are the same and deserve the same.

Exactly Robert. I agree with you.

Thank you, Robert. For bringing us back to the main topic and so easily concluding it.

Really, thank you.

Yeah clyo we went from the real topic to insults and then to guns and ammunition.

Adam wrote: "All I'm discussing assumes that you live in a developed country. I don't expect Muslim women to fight their husbands, for example. I don't expect Muslim women to read this, in fact. I would just er..."

I consider Mexico to be a developed country, religion plays no part whatsoever in politics (politicians are often excommunicated) and still authorities would most likely blame a woman in cases of rape or domestic violence.

Even if they did not blame her directly there are horror stories where men get caught sexually assaulting women, they are taken to the authorities and after a brief and untrustworthy psy evaluation of the victim's state they let the man walk if they do not think the victim has suffered any psychological damage (if you are not crying hysterically and say you will never touch a man again you are totally fine).

Plus the way a society treats a domestic violence victim is appalling, especially for men. I know men who have been through this and they never stood up for themselves. If a man marches into a police station and declares he is being abused by his wife... it would not go well for him at all.

I think the bottom line is that you cannot feel entitled to call domestic violence victims idiots until you actually know how it is like to be in that position.

Adam, Are you seriously going to keep on fighting about this? I'm appalled that you even opened my profile to see which country I was coming from.

I don't agree with you, and you don't with me. That's the end of it. This should be a group for positive reinforcements not insults. Please, stop the negative attitude.

I feel like sharing something from the New Zealand Family Violence Clearinghouse website. It comes from this article, formally titled the "HeforShe solidarity movement for gender equality". It goes back to basics in explaining what the movement is, and provides some links as to why men should be involved, as well as what some issues surrounding gender oppression are and how men can help.

The UN Women is working to build a solidarity movement for gender equality. Launched on International Women's Day (8 March) 2014, the HeForShe campaign aims to engage one billion men by July 2015 as "advocates and agents of change for the achievement of gender equality and women's rights."

• "Gender inequality is one of the most persistent human rights violations of our time. Despite many years of promoting gender equality, inequalities among women/girls and men/boys continue to manifest in egregious ways around the world.

• HeForShe is a solidarity movement for gender equality that engages men and boys as advocates and stakeholders, to break the silence, raise their voices and take action for the achievement of gender equality.

• Gender equality is not only a women's issue, it is a human rights issue that affects all of us - women and girls, men and boys. We all benefit socially, politically and economically from gender equality in our everyday lives. When women are empowered, the whole of humanity benefits. Gender equality liberates not only women but also men, from prescribed social roles and gender stereotypes."

Men should always be invited to be feminists. Both my brothers are. Both genders must help each other with equality. This shouldn't be a competition, rather it should be a collaboration.

I seriously think that men should be part of the feminism movement because it would be paradoxical, if not.
I mean, we are supposed to fight for the gender equality and the fact that some of us prefer to be only girls create a communauty of GIRLS feminist and, so, do not matches with the equality between both MEN and WOMEN.
If we are all together for this fight, men like women, our message will be more accepted and understand by other whereas if we decide to stay together in a girls communauty, we will show that our talking is contrary to our goal, paradoxical, inconclusive and ineffective.