Support for Indie Authors discussion

I see that there have been thousands of comments over the years in the Author Help folder, so apologies if this repeats something addressed previously: has anyone used Bookbub for an advertising campaign and, if so, what were the results, what are the pros and cons and any other comments you may have. Thanks!

From a reader standpoint: I use bookbub and there are many books I have gotten that I never had seen or heard of but because of the way the do things it puts it in front of me in a nice daily email. I don't always buy a book but most of the time I get at least one. I also get daily reading deals from the another site but bookbub does a much better job. That's from my, a reader/reviewer's, standpoint. Hope that helps.

Sorry, the way they do things.

Dawn wrote: "Sorry, the way they do things."

Is Bookbub part of Amazon?

Wally, had a typo and they won't let you edit a comment here. I don't think it's strictly Amazon as they link to iBooks, also and others. Sorry for the confusion.

Dawn wrote: "Wally, had a typo and they won't let you edit a comment here. I don't think it's strictly Amazon as they link to iBooks, also and others. Sorry for the confusion."

Thanks. Your probably right. Amazon is strictly Amazon.

I've looked at them myself, because if I remember right, they had an audience of several hundred thousand interested in my genre (Fantasy). Might be some great exposure, but some testimonials from fellow indie authors would help on this.

Bookbub is generally heralded as *the* book promotion site for indies. I hear "best return on investment" about them a lot.

They seem to be very picky, though. You will need a decent number of positive reviews and a very professional product to get accepted. If you are looking for an idea of sales numbers many people on Kboards post theirs before/after a Bookbub. However, a lot of them use multiple promotion sites a day, so it's not always easy to know exactly.

Here's the first thread I found, but search around if you want more because there are loads:
http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topi...

Thanks, Dawn - good to hear from reader's perspective.

Wally - To my knowledge, Bookbub is independent, but just starting my due diligence, so I could be wrong.

L.S. - I've also heard that they want lots of positive reviews and not from the same source.

Joe - I joined as a partner and looked at their pricing and projected audience (based on genres) - mine is both action-adventure and historical mystery (The Scimitar And The Snail - you can see on my author page) - under action-adventure, they show number of subscribers, projected number of downloads and average number of sales that were very good - would definitely give your sales a boost. But also wondering if there are other ways to get there.

I've never used it as an author, but as a reader Bookbub has to be one of my favorites. I like the way they present the books. I subscribed to many sites like them and while I sometimes delete the emails without opening them, I seldom do it with Bookbub.

We have not yet landed a BookBub ad, but we intend to keep trying. For our genre, they have a reach orders of magnitude beyond any other service. Their "price per eyeball" on your ad is cheaper than any of the smaller services we looked at. They are also generous with their stats.

I realize I'm not directly answering your question, as we have not had an ad with them, but I have corresponded with them, and got prompt and helpful answers to my questions (that were not neither canned nor just notes telling me to read their FAQ). This left me quite favorably impressed.

We will be trying again to get an ad with them in the near future. If we succeed, we will more pertinent info to report.

I have tried to land an ad with them. When they don't feature your book, their letter is polite but not helpful.

They encourage the author to try again, but don't tell wether the book was REJECTED or narrowly beaten.

They are, I think, THE paid advertising company to go for.and I would address the issues that caused rejection.

Anyone succeded with a "free day" ad? If so, how did it go?

Just slightly off the subject, but perhaps helpful nevertheless, I have a free ad up on Readers in the Know. http://www.readersintheknow.com/home

Not sure how popular the website is, or whether any sales will result from it, but I'll let you know.

Anthony wrote: "I have tried to land an ad with them. When they don't feature your book, their letterr is polite but not helpful.

They encourage the author to try again, but don't tell wether the book was REJECT..."

Based on what I've heard from others, it usually takes several attempts to get an ad with BookBub, and (as stated) they give no clues as to the reason a book is not accepted. One might study the BookBub emails for clues to what they accept, but I'd expect any indicators to be weak. We plan to do that anyway, bearing in mind that the situation is always fluid.

Ken wrote: "Just slightly off the subject, but perhaps helpful nevertheless, I have a free ad up on Readers in the Know. http://www.readersintheknow.com/home

Not sure how popular the website is, or whether an..."

I didn't see even the slightest bump in sales from the free ad on Readers in the Know yesterday. Someone else's book ad is up today. Not sure about the popularity of the website, anyway. I used to have an app or a website that gauged a website's popularity, but it seems to have disappeared from my bookmarks.

I tried to get on Bookbub a few times, and was, as you might expect, rejected. I only have one book out in each of my two series, and have decided that I'd like to have at least three in a series if I'm going to advertise there, just to have a better chance of making my money back with extra sales.

BookBub is the most expensive promo you can buy, but arguably worth the price as their exposure reaches tens of thousands of buyers.

Kathi wrote: "BookBub is the most expensive promo you can buy, but arguably worth the price as their exposure reaches tens of thousands of buyers."

Bookbub's reach is in the millions. For popular genres, I believe an email goes out to ~2 million or more readers. A free giveaway on Bookbub is reported to net an average of 20,000 downloads. A $0.99 discount book reportedly averages ~2000 sales.

Obviously, those numbers vary over a wide range and depend on genre, but considering their reach, Bookbub is actually the cheapest advertising we have found. The trick is getting an ad accepted, which is difficult. They have a fairly limited number of openings and probably 1000s of authors applying at any given time, so they are selective. But even books that meet their criteria have a low chance of being selected, just because of the limited openings available.

So don't be downhearted if your book doesn't get picked. Be patient and try again.

Thanks, Owen - your analysis is about where I came out too. And I think that it emphasizes the real problem, which is circular: I need to have a lot of reviews (and favorable reviews, apparently) in order for Bookbub to consider running my ad - but in order to get that number of reviews, I presumably need to have sold a lot of books already, in which case, do I really need to advertise on Bookbub?

I'm happy to know their reach is in the millions. I wasn't aware it was that high. To John Lefevere - I once heard that if BookBub accepts your book, the book has to be doing so well that you don't actually need BookBub. Lol, sad, but probably true.

John & Kathi: Yes, this is a common point and IMO there is some truth to it. Bookbub accepts ads primarily from books with a proven track record of sales, so there is certainly an element of the rich get richer.

On the other hand, there is, as far as I can see, no cost to submitting an ad to them and nothing ventured, nothing gained. That said, I have a fairly strong impression that Bookbub does not consider new authors, unless perhaps their book has sold extraordinarily well, and I personally would not consider an ad with them worth it without at least 3 or 4 books out, probably more if they are not part of a series. We submitted with 3 books, and that may well be too early.

The larger point here is that is a actually a good thing. It is much better to have your 5th, or 6th or 10th book take off than your first. Sales success with a first book runs a high risk of a fast flame-out and I think should be avoided. Lasting commercial success requires a substantial backlog, and in this sense Bookbub not accepting ads from authors who have not yet created a backlog is doing them a favor.

I have not used Bookbub, although I have an author page with them, but I have used other sites for similar promotion. ebooksoda, ReadCheaply, and Choosy Bookworm are all great sources. They did exactly as they said they would and I saw an increase in sales within 48 hours of their posting.

You may be right, Owen, but I do know one book authors who have been accepted and advertised on BookBub, at least they say they have. Do you have first hand knowledge of this "multiple-book" rule? It is certainly not listed as part of their criteria. Do you work at BookBub and therefore have insider info?

That is an amusing thought, but my only association with Bookbub is that which many authors who've submitted to them have: being rejected.

To clarify, as far as their website states, Bookbub does not appear to have many rules. They have criteria that they discuss in the fairly general way, and which they apply without revealing specifics when a book is rejected. I commented that "I have a fairly strong impression that Bookbub does not consider new authors, unless perhaps their book has sold extraordinarily well" and that is what it is: an impression, albeit a strong one -- not a rule. So I have no doubt authors with a single book have been accepted, but my impression is that this is a rare event.

Also, I will note we have been watching BookBub for about 18 months, and I doubt their selection criteria and predilections have remained static over that time. How they have changed, I have no firm idea -- whether it had become easier or harder to get an ad, I don't know. I have a vague feeling that it is more difficult these days because there are more books competing for a limited number of slots. But I have no data to quantify this.

I hope that clears up any confusion.

E.J. wrote: "They do say that one of the reasons for rejection is that their space for any one promotion is limited..."

We get the Bookbub newsletter -- only for our genre -- and space does appear to be very limited. So "luck of the draw" appears to play a big role.

Always nice to hear of indie authors doing well, as that author in your group seems to be!

Bookbub has author profiles now (this is fairly new to me -- maybe not to others, though) and allows authors to announce new releases on their site. I can't vouch for the worth of any of this, as I just set mine up, but it is another option to check out.

These services are available whether or not any of your book have been accepted for ads.

Owen wrote: "Bookbub has author profiles now (this is fairly new to me -- maybe not to others, though) and allows authors to announce new releases on their site. I can't vouch for the worth of any of this, as I..."

Owen,
Could you please share the link to the authors profile page on Bookbub? I can't seem to find it.

Chikamso wrote: "Owen,
Could you please share the link to the authors profile page on Bookbub? I can't seem to find it. ..."

I can try to explain the process I went through. We created an account with BookBub to submit an ad. Once we did that, our account dashboard showed a link: "Author Profile", that I clicked on, and it said "Claim your author profile." (Or similar. I also recall getting a notice on the site inviting me to do this.) I entered my name, and BookBub sent a confirmation email. I replied and got a notice that my request was in review. A day later, I got an email that my request manage my author profile had been approved. At that point, I could log in and set up my profile, and it went live on the Bookbub site.

Please excuse my fallible memory if some details are not quite correct.

Owen wrote: "Chikamso wrote: "Owen,
Could you please share the link to the authors profile page on Bookbub? I can't seem to find it. ..."

I can try to explain the process I went through. We created an account ..."

Gotcha... thanks :-)

Owen wrote: "At that point, I could log in and set up my profile, and it went live on the Bookbub site. ..."

I'd be interested in hearing back about whether the author profile on Bookbub actually helps sales. I got the e-mail a while back but ignored it, because it sounds like they only send new release notifications out to people who are following you on Bookbub.

I don't think it would help me, given my current track record of a book every 18 months or so.

However, wouldn't it be better to capture those followers on your own mailing list, website, etc.?

Ken wrote: "Owen wrote: "I'd be interested in hearing back about whether the author profile on Bookbub actually ..."

Personally, I have expectation that it will. If people find your book via Bookbub, then it might. But that implies getting an ad with Bookbub.

As for it being better to capture those followers on your own site, list, etc, I imagine that depends on your readers. We have no intention of bringing our Bookbub page to anyone attention. If anything, we think encouraging people to follow us on our Amazon author page is more useful -- in our case, more useful than our website or our mailing list. The Bookbub profile (for us) is merely a "reserve" that took a few minutes to create.

Owen wrote: "Ken wrote: "Owen wrote: "I'd be interested in hearing back about whether the author profile on Bookbub actually ..."

Personally, I have expectation that it will. If people find your book via Bookb..."

There may be an untapped resource authors don't consider, getting people to follow you on Amazon.

I was researching them today and found this, people may be interested to know.

It is certainly an expensive investment, but if it pays off it as is mentioned then that would be grand.

https://www.bookbub.com/partners/pricing

Tamara wrote: "Gosh, you have to be confident your book will sell."

According to published numbers, in a "popular" category (the top half of the Bookbub list) a free giveaway results in 40,000 to 20,000 downloads on average. Discounted books sell about 4,000 to 2,000 on average. If your book gets in, there is a good chance it will sell.

But very few books get in. BookBub only puts one book per category per day in their newsletter (there appear to be more on their website), so they are quite particular about what they will accept.

I've heard it said that if you can get accepted by Bookbub, you're selling well enough that you probably don't need them, anyway :)

probably not, but more certainly wouldn't hurt!

also, some categories are much smaller, you'd probably have a better chance to get in.

Ken wrote: "I've heard it said that if you can get accepted by Bookbub, you're selling well enough that you probably don't need them, anyway :)"

Yes, that was said here by the other Ken. In looking at the some of the lower categories, I considered the possibility of sending some of my books through just for giggles, but then I noticed that if your book as been discounted or free within the last 90 days then it is not eligible. To me, that's a waste of a full promotional period.

Christina wrote: "... but then I noticed that if your book as been discounted or free within the last 90 days then it is not eligible..."

According to Bookbub's website, it's not that a book can't have been discounted with the last 90 days, but that a book can't have been offered for a better price:

"Your book cannot have been offered for a better price than the submitted deal price within the last 90 days.

Your book cannot have been discounted to your submitted deal price for more than a total of 14 days within the last 90 days (either consecutively or collectively). This rule does not apply to free deals, however, and we’re happy to feature permafree books!"

So it you've offered you book for free with in the past 90 days, you aren't eligible to offer it at a discount price, but you are eligible to offer it for free.

Hope that helps.

C.B. wrote: "probably not, but more certainly wouldn't hurt!

also, some categories are much smaller, you'd probably have a better chance to get in."

We subscribe to their newsletter, though not in the less-popular categories, so I haven't seen what they list there. But I suspect it's not the number of subscribers that matters but the degree of competition for each the limited number of slots in each category.

Based on what gets into their email, sci-fi appears to be a tough category to get listed in, and one reason I think is that all sci-fi is lumped into a single category. Romance, however, is split into several, and hearsay evidence suggests it's easier to get listed there if you persevere and try different categories that suit your book.

And I agree it doesn't hurt. Whether one needs it is a different question.

Owen wrote: "Your book cannot have been offered for a better price than the submitted deal price within the last 90 days.

Your book cannot have been discounted to your submitted deal price for more than a total of 14 days within the last 90 days (either consecutively or collectively). This rule does not apply to free deals, however, and we’re happy to feature permafree books!"


Interesting. Well I might just have to test this. I suppose the worst that could happen is I'm actually selected and I find myself out $100 bucks on a failed experiment.

Christina wrote: "Interesting. Well I might just have to test this. I suppose the worst that could happen is I'm actually selected and I find myself out $100 bucks on a failed experiment...."

I found it interesting that they feature permafree books. I also found it interesting that the woman I corresponded with at BookBub said their stats show that for series, in most cases a free promo generates more revenue for the author from the ad than a discounted book.

She said that primary benefit of a discounted book ad was the boost in sales rank in the paid Amazon lists, which if it sustains can be very good in the long run. But for a series, free ads appeared to have the overall edge.

Christina wrote: "Interesting. Well I might just have to test this. I suppose the worst that could happen is I'm actually selected and I find myself out $100 bucks on a failed experiment. ..."

It's definitely worth a try. I'd be buying champagne if I got accepted :)

R.L. wrote: "Owen wrote: "C.B. wrote: "probably not, but more certainly wouldn't hurt!

also, some categories are much smaller, you'd probably have a better chance to get in."

We subscribe to their newsletter,..."
I'd agree with the comment about Sci-Fi books struggling to get accepted on Bookbub. The only Sci-Fi book to feature recently was a four book set which was priced as Free. That's some tough competition for the rest of us.

I was thinking about Bookbub again.
Has anyone been accepted yet?

They have author profiles, which is new to me, since the last time I was there.

Regardless, I have decided one thing - they are making some serious money.

A bookbub promo is the holy grail of promos. Having said that I was a little dissatisfied with what I observed after getting my first rejection. I studied my genre intensely for two weeks and one particular book had a six day run. Six days? Not only that but I checked the Amazon ranking for the book throughout those six days and the rankings slipped more and more each day. It was a $1.99 book so I just don't get it. Still, it will be a happy day when I finally get my book excepted :-)

Oh, and I forgot to add that the book only had four ratings with an average of 4.2. One reviewer gave it a three because of the typos. Typos? So much for rigorous and exacting standards. Lastly and subjectively, the cover of that book was atrocious. It looked completely handmade. The whole thing left me very baffled.

Browsing the Bookbub provides a good deal of useful info to consider before submitting. For example, this is what they say about reviews:

'While there is no specific “minimum requirement” for reviews, our editors are generally more likely to select books with higher numbers of authentic and positive customer reviews. This is why we rarely accept new releases for Featured Deals — books with established platforms and positive reviews tend to perform best with our readers. Note that these must be legitimate reviews, and that we do examine reviews for veracity.

We recommend browsing through the books we’re featuring in your category to get a sense of what a competitive number of positive reviews is for that genre. Getting 12 reviews for your book might be a big accomplishment, but it wouldn’t make a book competitive in BookBub’s Contemporary Romance category. If your book wasn’t selected for a Featured Deal, look at the platforms of the books that were and resubmit when you have a comparable number of reviews.'

Note the emphasis on authentic and legitimate reviews. I take this to be a notice from BookBub that they weigh reviews by verified purchasers much more highly.

Just for the record for those who have mentioned "if you can get a bookbub ad, you probably don't need one" I'm currently following a thread in kboards in which an author whose books were ranked in the 650,000s before his bookbub promotion and are now in the top 10 in all their categories and in the top 200 for straight up sales rank in the amazon store. So, I'm going to go ahead and go out on a limb and say that it's well worth the bump in visibility if you can get an ad with them. If you're curious about the thread you can find it here: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topi...

The book featured by bb in my genre had only 4 reviews and one of them was negative, one was so-so and the other two were glowing. So there was certainly no emphasis on quality...and that book was promoted for 6 days and slipped in the ranks during its promo run. I'm at a loss to explain this.