Grimdark Fantasy discussion

A couple years ago I started giving up on books that were not doing it for me. Yesterday I started a book that may (probably should) end up that way.

I was just curious about others. Do you drop those books that just aren't working? Do you suffer to the last sentence? What's your ratio?

I try to be picky about what I start and frequently will skip books that have bad reviews by people I trust. That said I'm still probably doing a DNF on about 10% of the books I pick up.

I used to suck it till the end but lately I found myself DNFing books. From around 800 books I have, I stopped reading around 6 or 7, 4 of them in the last two years. I have some skimmed books as well, maybe around 5 or 6.

I reckon there are many enjoyable books out there, why bother with the one you don't enjoy even if your buddies all give it five stars.

Silvana wrote: "I reckon there are many enjoyable books out there, why bother with the one you don't enjoy even if your buddies all give it five stars. "

Totally agree.

I try to finish everything I start, so far I've only left one book. I normally drop something and come back to it in a few months. That being said I have several on my 'currently reading' shelf that I am planning on coming back to, all depends on when I feel like it.

What I read is entirely dictated by my mood, if I find myself wondering about a particular series or book then I'll probably read it within a few weeks.

In occasion I have forced myself to finish something, but that would make me enjoy it even less. It shouldn't be a chore.

I just drop it. But it does not feel good. Especially when an book gets an insane amount of ratings like name of the wind.

In comparison to some of you, i read a lot less. So it's also valuable time i can use to read a book i do like.

I created a list with books i could not finish. So maybe in the future i can start over ;)

These days I don't have much reading time. I'll be lucky if I read twelve of thirteen books in a year. So if a book is not capturing me in some way, I'll drop it. It doesn't have to action or excitement. Great prose will do just fine. Name of the Wind was a perfect example. Not much happens but I found the book riveting. It was probably one of my fastest reads. And the sequel...even LESS happens (if that's even possible) and it was just as good.

It's usually crap writing that drives me to drop a book. If I'm continually distracted by the prose (sloppy, clichéd, lazy, unedited) it's a gonner.

Brittany wrote: "Michael wrote: "These days I don't have much reading time. I'll be lucky if I read twelve of thirteen books in a year. So if a book is capturing me in some way, I'll drop it. It doesn't have to act..."

Yep. It does tend to mean I'm not terribly adventurous in my reading. I tend to wait until a pile of bloggers/reviewers I trust have raved about a book before investing the time/money. No doubt I'm missing a lot, but it does mean that if I only read 12 books in a year, they were probably 12 awesome books.

I'm bad about reading to the end unless it's absolute garbage. I've had pleasant experiences with a bad beginning that turned into a great book so I try not to discount anything without reading at least half of it.

Very rarely do I not finish a book. I will usually stick with it, but will just read a chapter here and there while I read a few other books at the same time that I am into. Eventually I will finish that book.

When I'm not really feeling a book at some point but overall like it I usually just put it down for a bit.

I'm currently doing that to The Great Hunt from Wheel of Time. I really loved the first 300 or so pages and breezed through them in a few days, but it's felt like a slog getting through the next 100 over the last week or so.

Now it's just sitting at 400+ pages read while I read an entirely different sci-fi series since if I read fantasy before picking it back up I'd be super confused. My brain mixes up magic systems and whatnot.

I used to be REALLY BAD when I was a teenager. I remember reading LOTR the first time and stopping about 1/3 of the way into the 3rd book.

I tried to read it again a few years later and stopped just after 2nd book.

It wasn't until I was an adult I finished it all the way through.

Nowadays, it's rare that I stop a book. I have to really just not be into it to stop it. Hell, I even made it through the entire damn Divergent trilogy and believe me that wasn't easy. I almost wanted to pluck my eyes out at times.

The only book that I can remember not finishing in recent years is Tigana by Guy Gavriel Kay a few years ago. It didn't seem like a bad book, but I just couldn't get into it.

I had that problem too Chris with The Hobbit. That was the only book I ever put down and read at a much later time (years later). What is funny I had no problem getting through the Lord of the Rings novel and then went back and read The Hobbit and was just fine.

I'm trying to cultivate a DNF habit for fiction, but I'm not good at stopping in the middle of a book when I don't enjoy it. I mostly only read stuff that was recommended to me or highly rated, so I often think that if I stick it out until the end, it'll be worth it. It usually isn't.

I've been having a pretty good run lately. If I rate a book 3 stars it means I liked it quite a bit, and I've only read one book in the last year that I've rated only 2 stars and none that I've rated 1 star. I feel like I've lucked out somewhat since I've taken a chance on a few books without really hearing about them beforehand. The one book I gave 2 stars was just a bit too predictable and poorly written for my tastes.

Funny, I've never read any books with bad beginning then turned out to be good at the end. I usually stopped/started skimming when I reached 25-30% or when I couldn't continue reading as usual. In my experience, if the author could not hook me in the first quarter of the book then I won't be hooked at all.

Does any of you guys have a certain point when you just want to quit? Maybe stick to the first few chapters or depends on the mood?

I also usually never come back to DNFed books. Again, so little time, so many to read.

I admit that I always try to finish a book.

Every time I finish a book that I didn't like at all and I feel this surge of relief, I tell myself: "This is not how you're supposed to feel. Reading should be enjoyable. You are doing this for fun after all". And then I promise myself that the next time I reach the point where reading is a chore, I will DNF. I almost never do.

I do cheat though. Sometimes when I don't like a book, I just read a couple of pages here and there and I read 4 books in between. This takes the edge off a little bit.

Deluge, I also try to read three star reviews first and sometimes if I am really not sure about the book, one star reviews as well. Just want to be prepared and lower my expectation so I know better when and whether I could DNF it.

When do I decide to quit? For me it is a combination of writing and story. If I like the story and the writing is at least decent I'll probably stick it out. If the story is mediocre and the writing is bad, I'll ditch it.

Regarding reviews: I follow a lot of reviews and certain reviewers have certain prejudices that I've come to recognize. There is one guy I follow who is a bit conservative in his views, but often reads the same books I do. When he gives something a five star review I take notice. When he gives something a two star review, I will read why he did that. Often what offended him is not a negative to me and that two star review may compel me to read the book.

Each reviewer is different. The reviewers that never have low reviews or never write comments don't inform me much. Those with varied reviews and details on why are awesome.

To me it makes a difference on whether the book is just "not interesting", "bad writing" or sometimes (like I suspect with the Malazan books), it's just so huge that it's slow going because it's setting up a HUGE world/plot.

For example, when I was young I tried to read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand. After 100 pages, it was still introducing new characters and setting stuff up. I just couldn't go on. Years later, I tried again (book on tape) and found it was an amazing story, but it was so incredibly complex that there was tons and tons of setup because there were probably 100 characters.

or sometimes (like I suspect with the Malazan books)"

Now that you mention it, my latest DNF/pending in limbo book is "Forge of Darkness" by Steven Erikson, which is a prequel to the Malazan series.

I'm having the hardest time getting into this book. Part of it is that the characters seem so disjoint and uninteresting, but this might be because it's a prequel and I never knew the characters. But the most important part is that I dislike the language (too many adjectives, parallels, too long sentences) and the heroes' propensity for long monologues and sermons.

If you guys tell me that the actual series is better, I can try more. But if the writing and characters' expression is just the author's style, then it just might not be for me.

I will set aside books if I just don't get into them. The Black Company for example...just didn't enjoy it at all. I'm not a fast reader & I have way too many books I want to read to finish books I hate.

Greta wrote: "I will set aside books if I just don't get into them. The Black Company for example...just didn't enjoy it at all. I'm not a fast reader & I have way too many books I want to read to finish books I..."

I started The Black Company ladt year and stopped too. Though I wasn't sure if I wasn't into it, or it wasn't the right book for my mood at the time. I'll try it again.

That's interesting we both stopped it! I may try it again at some point too.

I can understand why people stop on Black Company. The writing style is a bit different and doesn't really seem to mesh with a fantasy novel. Once I became acclimated to it, I ended up finishing the first novel and reading the next three.

I like the first book most of all. The next two were not as enjoyable because I don't like the plots.
But still, I'll always recommend at least the first book for grimdark newbies, it's kind of a classic in the genre for me.

I am reading the Chronicles of the Black Company, which includes the first three books of the series. I just finished book 2 and for what it's worth, I am liking it so far. It's funny but I am most enjoying the part where nothing is happening and the guys are playing cards. It's where all the real character development and connections come out and my opinion is that this is the author's best writing.

I usually try to power through every book (especially if I paid money to read it). I think I could probably count the number of books I've DNF'd in the last 10 years on 1 hand... ok, maybe 2 hands, but with fingers to spare. It helps that I almost always read the kindle sample first, so I have a good idea of whether the book is going to be my type or not.

Andy wrote: " It helps that I almost always read the kindle sample first, so I have a good idea of whether the book is going to be my type or not. "

This.

But sometimes, there are some books which samples are great but the rest are not so engaging...especially nonfiction. Or the other way around.

I have mostly slogged through books that I really am not enjoying, but lately I try to skim through dead areas. If I'm to a certain length in (typically 60%) and still skimming it's time to give up.

My more recent give ups have been:

The Way of Kings
Ship Breaker
Snow Crash

Heather wrote: "My more recent give ups have been:

The Way of Kings
Ship Breaker
Snow Crash
"

I was DNF on "Snow Crash" as well...maybe 5 years ago. I once described the style of the story in the book being so (constantly) intense that reading it almost felt like getting punched in the face every moment until you put it down again.

I haven't quit on anything in so long I don't even remember what it was but some close calls have been

Royal Assassin which is too bad because the first book was great. It did redeem itself at the at end somewhat.

The Name of the Wind I know people love it but I found it so boring.

The Black Prism This was an audio book and the narrator was awful and that might have had a lot to do with it. They changed narrators for future books in the series but I still haven't picked it back up.

The Dead Key Epic types of bad.

Pat wrote: "I haven't quit on anything in so long I don't even remember what it was but some close calls have been

Royal Assassin which is too bad because the first book was great. It did redeem itself at th..."

I enjoyed the series, but I felt the second two in the original trilogy were not as good as the first. I also had to read the series quite slowly.

I found Black Prism annoying too and I did the audio book. It felt like it was written by a 15 year old boy or something with the fat jokes and such.

Snowcrash....I just don't get why people like it. There are HUGE dumps of info with the computer just reading things to Hero. But if you skip that stuff, you miss the point of the book which is, I believe, religion is a virus. He should have just written a scholarly paper and skipped the novel.

Not trying to diss the authors, given that both those books are wildly popular. I just am not the target for those books.

I generally will read the first book in a series. There are quite a few series where I've read book 1 but haven't felt that pull to carry on.

I did DNF The Name of the Wind. I know so many people love it, but I actually tried 3 times and each time I didn't find myself enjoying the story. After my attempts it felt silly to keep trying to read it.

Heather I read The Way of Kings, but didn't enjoy it enough to want to carry on with the series.

Also Daughter of the Blood I made myself continue with the book as it was a Book of the Month in another group. There is no way I would continue on with the series.

Here's the thing - I haven't liked anything I've tried by Sanderson (including Steelheart). People tell me to just get to the end of Way of Kings and I'll like it. But why slog through a book you don't like and see 10 more books like that in the future?

Ok, guys! You win :-) I did read the first book of the Malazan series. You win a bit more because I actually liked it.

Heather wrote: "Snowcrash....I just don't get why people like it. There are HUGE dumps of info with the computer just reading things to Hero. But if you skip that stuff, you miss the point of the book which is, I believe, religion is a virus. He should have just written a scholarly paper and skipped the novel.

Not trying to diss the authors, given that both those books are wildly popular. I just am not the target for those books. ."


For what it's worth, I read Cryptonomicon by the same author last year. I slogged through the entire 1000 or so pages and ended up not liking it much either. It was written quite as "intensely" as Snow Crash, but I slogged through the whole thing because I thought it was leading up to an epic ending. I was horribly disappointed by one of those slow non-eventful endings.

Heather wrote: "Here's the thing - I haven't liked anything I've tried by Sanderson (including Steelheart). People tell me to just get to the end of Way of Kings and I'll like it. But why slog thro..."

I read the Mistborn series last year by Sanderson. It wasn't bad, but I think it's a little over-hyped.

Maybe I just rate too hard, but there are a number of popular authors/series that I think are "OK" that everybody else think are just the bees knees. I wasn't overly impressed with Abercrombie's First Law series either that I read for this group's first group read.

I actually dropped off my involvement with a fantasy club on GR because everyone is so fan boy/girl over authors that I just don't think are good at all. There cannot be good discussion with all-club gushing. Plus they get super pissed if you say you didn't care for something. I've come to believe that the typical fantasy reader just doesn't care about good writing - they just want cool magic.

I'm glad we don't have the rabid type of fanboys/girls here. Or at least that we understand the old "Different strokes for different folks".

I loved Snow Crash when I first read it, but that was early in my current sci-fi fantasy obsession. I suspect I wouldn't enjoy it as much now. I did like Cryptonomicon better, but it took me a while to get into it and it definitely had some of the same problems as Snow Crash. I started Seveneves and couldn't get too far into it. I think I'm about done with Stephenson.

I had the exact same reaction to Mistborn, Chris. It was fine, but I was confused by it's inclusion at the top of every best of list I could find.

I've had that problem with superfans in groups here, Heather. I've seen people get really overly defensive of Sanderson in some of the SF/F groups. I also got attacked in the Stephen King fan group for criticizing some of the problems with his writing. I guess I should have seen that coming, since it was a group dedicated to that author, but I wasn't on there trolling on anything - I'm a fan too, otherwise I wouldn't be there. I just don't feel the need to pretend that King or anyone else is perfect.

Andy wrote: "I had the exact same reaction to Mistborn, Chris. It was fine, but I was confused by it's inclusion at the top of every best of list I could find. "

I love Mistborn and it is on my favourites list, but I would agree with you - there are better books out there. The one thing I think Mistborn has over other books that I love even more is that the series is easy to read compared to series like ASOIAF or Malazan which take a considerable amount of time and effort. A lot of people are recommended Mistborn when they are looking for their first taste of fantasy. When you vote on a list, chances are better than not that most people haven't read all of them; a number of people have read many, but a lot of people have read only one or a couple of books on the list. A lot of the time, the one or couple of books includes Mistborn, so they vote for it. And Mistborn ends up at the top.

I gave the first three Mistborn books all 4*'s. I think it's a very good but not top of the line series.

I'm in a space opera club on GR that is great about doing listopias that are helpful to those interested in specific areas of one genre. I think that would be great in each area. For example, I like some Grimdark, but not all for sure. I can't figure out what the common theme is that I like! This would cut down on the "did not finish" list.

There's a lot of the older sci-fi that was very formative for young people back in the day. While I don't enjoy it as an adult, I can see the value it had during its time.

One of the the things that I absolutely loved about the Mistborn trilogy (I've yet to go after the newer books, but they are on the list) is the "magic system". Totally not magic, but I found the different metal based powers really fascinating.

I loved the first three Mistborn, and book 1 of the new series, but for some reason the last 2 books haven't had me on the edge of my seat. I can't figure out if my tastes have changed or if they just aren't as good?

I agree with Jenna in that Mistborn probably fuctions well as an introduction to fantasy because it's not as dense and complex. Then again, if those are the elements you come to fantasy for you might be put off. When I mentioned best-of lists I didn't mean listopias or other lists that are voted on; I just meant various blogs and articles that I've read with titles like "best 25 fantasy series ranked" or "50 fantasy series you need to read." Mistborn always seems to be ranked near the top of these.

That's what I always hear people say about Mistborn, Chompa: they rave about the magic system. Yes, it was very well thought out and original, but in response I would say: 1. the story was too reliant on the magic system to the detriment of other elements in my opinion, and 2. the way that magic system was described throughout the book was so boring and tedious. "Vin burned tin and it launched her into the air, then she was approaching a wall so she burned copper to avoid it, then she needed to make a left turn so she burned some other metal and swerved in that direction, then...." His writing just comes off as very dry and technical for me.

I only read the first Mistborn book, so maybe it gets better. And I did like Way of Kings.

Chompa wrote: "One of the the things that I absolutely loved about the Mistborn trilogy (I've yet to go after the newer books, but they are on the list) is the "magic system". Totally not magic, but I found the d..."

Honestly, that was the only thing that really set it apart at all for me. The story was good, but the unique "magic" system was truly new and interesting. It must be fun to try to come up with new "moves" using the metals powers (like Vin's use of horseshoes to travel long distances with great speed).

Andy, I can see your point, but I found the concept so fresh that I apparently disregarded any dryness of the descriptors.

Chompa wrote: "Andy, I can see your point, but I found the concept so fresh that I apparently disregarded any dryness of the descriptors."

I think it had that effect for a lot of people. We all place higher value on different things and sometimes one element can be so impressive it overcomes other deficiencies. I can imagine a hardcore Sanderson fan might read the First Law Trilogy and think "this sucks, he doesn't bother to explain the magic system at all!", but for me I barely noticed that - I was too busy grinning from ear to ear reveling in that guy's storytelling skills. ;)