The Mookse and the Gripes discussion

Though the field is large, any thoughts on rightful contenders?

I purchased My Name is Lucy Barton today. As Elizabeth Strout has won the Pulitzer, I am guessing it's a contender.

I think so, too, Ang (by the way, welcome to this new iteration, and feel free to invite whoever you think will be interested in coming here)!

If I had to put my money down right now I'd go something like this:

1) The Red Chairs - Edna O'Brien
2) The Bricks That Built the Houses - Kate Tempest
3) The North Water - Ian McGuire
4) What Belongs to You - Garth Greenwell
5) Mothering Sunday - Graham Swift
6) Anatomy of a Soldier - Harry Parker
7) My Name is Lucy Barton - Elizabeth Strout
8) City on Fire - Garth Risk Hallberg (obligatory 'populist' entry though could be Alexander Chee's "The Queen of the Night")
9) Blackass - A. Igoni Barrett
10) Nicotine - Nell Zink
11) Slade House - David Mitchell (or maybe Barnes' "Noise of Time")
12) Avenues of Mysteries - John Irving
13) Burning Down the House - Jane Mendelsohn

You've got to think Mantel's new one will be on there though, is it eligible this year? How about Safran Foer's later in the year?

No Kate Atkinson - again.

Books that were brought up on the other forum (some overlap between this and Tarquin's list):

-Beatlebone, by Kevin Barry
-The Cauliflower: A Novel, by Nicola Barker
-City on Fire, by Garth Hallberg
-Forty Rooms, by Olga Grushin
-Slade House, by David Mitchell

-The High Mountains of Portugal, by Yann Martel
-Number 11, by Jonathan Coe
-The Noise of Time, by Julian Barnes
-The Little Red Chairs, by Edna O'Brien
-Avenue of Mysteries, by John Irving

-Zero K, by Don DeLillo
-The Lesser Bohemians, by Eimer McBride
-The Passenger, by Cormac McCarthy (though I don't think this one is up for publication yet)
-The Mirror and the Light, by Hilary Mantel (looking less and less likely to make publication deadline)
-Swing Time, by Zadie Smith

-Martin John, by Anakana Schofield
-The Sympathizer, by Viet Thanh Nguyen
-What Belongs to You, by Garth Greenwell
-Mothering Sunday: A Romance, by Graham Swift
-Fifteen Dogs, by Andre Alexis

Trevor wrote: "Books that were brought up on the other forum (some overlap between this and Tarquin's list):

-Beatlebone, by Kevin Barry
-The Cauliflower: A Novel, by Nicola Barke..."

Good list! Why is Mantel unlikely? Because it won't make publication date?

Yes, I should clarify that! At this point, it still doesn't have a publication date, and a year ago she said the writing would take her another 12 to 18 months, so . . .

Possible, but I think it will be a 2017 book.

Trevor wrote: "Yes, I should clarify that! At this point, it still doesn't have a publication date, and a year ago she said the writing would take her another 12 to 18 months, so . . .

Possible, but I think it w..."

Ah yes, makes sense. Wouldn't bet against it as a record-breaking winner whenever it arrives!

Just read Mothering Sunday and was surprised how good it is. Agree with you guys that it's definitely a contender.

Anyone read the new Thomas Keneally or Deborah Levy? Could be in with a shout for the longlist maybe.

Zadie Smith's Swing Time (put like that, it sounds like the title for an old radio programme!) is now scheduled for November 2016.

Also, can't see a UK publisher for the Olga Grushin book as yet.

Tarquin, which Thomas Keneally book are you referring to? I don't see one that looks eligible for this year's prize, but I'm sure I'm just not looking in the right way.

I haven't read it, but Levy's Hot Milk seems a likely contender. I liked Swimming Home a lot, so I'd be happy to her continue to get this kind of recognition.

Anto, I'm thrilled to hear about Swift's book. I've heard others say it's pretty great as well. I haven't paid Swift much attention (indeed, haven't read anything but Last Orders well after it won the Booker back in 1996!).

Trevor, it's called "Napoleon's Last Island" - seems to be out in May 19th according to Amazon UK. Not sure if it's eligible and haven't seen any reviews but it looks like it could be good.

Ah, Napoleon's Last Island does look good. It should be a candidate if Sceptre, the publisher, submits it (which they should since, according to this year's rules, any prior shortlisted author's book can be sent in without it counting against the publisher's other quotas).

Here is a review The Guardian ran last November upon, I guess, its Australian release.

A couple others I think could stand a chance at the longlist:

-Louise Erdrich's LaRose: UK publication date set for May 10

-Ottessa Moshfegh's Eileen

Eileen yes!! I forgot it was eligible. Don't know the Erdrich.. will check it out!

In the past Erdrich has been a favorite, and I'm really looking forward to this one despite not really caring for her last novel, The Round House. But it won the National Book Award so what do I know!

Darryl Pinckney, Black Deutschland.

I've now read My Name is Lucy Barton and I expect it will be my favourite book this year, so here's hoping it makes the list. It was a tough read for me, as too much of it hits home. Lucy says, on page 189: "But this is my story. And yet it is the story of many." Yep.

Just finished Pond by Claire-Louise Bennett.

Had heard great things about it and it lived up to them.

Probably more one for the Goldsmiths than Man Booker though.

The reviews from the US aren't great, but I'd love to read Hotels of North America by Rick Moody, which has just been released over here.

I'm done with Barnes' The Noise of Time, and I found it a tough go. It is interesting because the subject—Shostakovich suffering an artist's life in Soviet Russia—is inherently interesting, but Barnes' episodic style coupled with his philosophic tone (with ideas that remain rather surface-bound and still feel over played) is quite dry. I'm generally a fan of Barnes' work, and I had high expectations given the subject. The best paragraph is the one that cited the title of the book, the one everyone quotes in reviews (as will I), but sadly the remainder of the book felt like a bit of personal research left undeveloped.

Needless to say, this doesn't make my Booker hopeful list.

I just can't grasp the Booker any longer now that they've let Americans play. Also it's hard for me to figure out what's eligible in a given year. From a U.S. perspective some of the books on the lists above I think of as 2014 books and others haven't been published here yet.

Complaints aside I'd love to see Edna O'Brien on the short list.

Also I loved Black Deutschland a lot.

Coetzee is on his way!

I just saw that Coetzee has a new novel coming late summer: The Schooldays of Jesus (a follow up to The Childhood of Jesus, surely?). I can't wait, though shamefully I still have to read The Childhood of Jesus. That'll be fixed soon.

Surely a strong contender from the two-time winner, even if I've heard not a word about it.

I also just saw that Ian McEwan has a new one coming: Nutshell "a classic story of murder and deceit, told by a narrator with a perspective and voice unlike any in recent literature."

So we have some past winners coming to show this year:

-Adiga (Selection Day)
-Barnes (The Noise of Time)
-Coetzee (The Schooldays of Jesus)
-Jacobson (Shylock Is My Name)
-Kelman (Dirt Road)
-Martel (The High Mountains of Portugal)
-McEwan (Nutshell)
-Swift (Mothering Sunday)

Let me know if I'm missing any. I believe each of these is automatically part of the pool, meaning the publishers should enter them and it doesn't count against their numbers. That could have changed, of course, because the by-laws seem to change daily.

It doesn't look like Mantel's books will hit this year's deadline, but I suppose there is still a bit of time to slip it in the fall publication line-up.

Edited to include Martel and Adiga . . .

A new Coetzee is cause for lots of celebration. The Childhood of Jesus is perhaps the weakest work by him that I have read, but it is intriguing, and the ending was a great point of departure for a follow-up (even if nobody other than Coetzee knew that one was forthcoming). I look forward to it, even if I doubt it will be a serious contender for any prizes.

Another eligible past winner:
Aravind Adiga (Selection Day)

Thanks Will! I added that above so that there's a complete list. I missed that when I was looking through all of the books!

U.S. Bigwigs with Eligible Books

Help me put together a list of the pedigreed U.S. novelists (those with awards in the past) with books eligible this year. I'd like to see which of them might attract the Booker.

Obviously, let's keep speculating about any books we think might be on there, but I wanted to put together a list of these similar to the one above with past Booker winners, though I suspect many will fall short.

-Brooks: The Secret Chord
-DeLillo: Zero K
-Erdrich: LaRose
-Nguyen: The Sympathizer (though a debut, it won the Pulitzer this year so is one to look out for)
-Proulx: Barkskins
-Russo: Everybody's Fool
-Smiley: Golden Age
-Strout: My Name Is Lucy Barton

Anne Tyler has her Taming of the Shrew book coming out this year, I just can't remember the name of it. Vinegar Girl, maybe?

I finished Mothering Sunday, and I thought it was excellent. Of the (few) eligible books I've read, it's by far my favorite.

poingu wrote: "I just can't grasp the Booker any longer now that they've let Americans play. Also it's hard for me to figure out what's eligible in a given year. From a U.S. perspective some of the books on the l..."
I agree that the eligibility rules are somewhat confusing but normally all of the shortlisted books have been published in the UK as hardbacks but not paperbacks at the time the prize is awarded (so it's probably easier to follow for those of us who spend time in British bookshops). There has been a lot of talk about the American question. It was already something of an anomaly - there have been many non-UK winners from the Commonwealth, some of them Canadian, and for writers who have spent time on both sides of the Canadian border the eligibility has always been confusing, so to some extent it simplifies the process. So far the Americans have not dominated, but this seems likely to change gradually. The Booker is also quite idiosyncratic in that the jury changes every year and some of them have rather strange ideas.

Hugh wrote: "The Booker is also quite idiosyncratic in that the jury changes every year and some of them have rather strange ideas."
Yes, like "a book needs to zip along". That jury will never be forgiven, even though they chose the right book to win in the end.

Trevor wrote: "I finished Mothering Sunday, and I thought it was excellent. Of the (few) eligible books I've read, it's by far my favorite."

Just to add my voice to those above who have said this - an excellent novel, and a real contender not just for the longlist but for the prize itself.

Ang wrote: "Yes, like "a book needs to zip along". That jury will never be forgiven, even though they chose the right book to win in the end. "

Only because the right book was sufficiently short (2nd shortest winner ever I believe after Offshore) that their limited attention spans could cope with it.

Paul wrote: "Ang wrote: "Yes, like "a book needs to zip along". That jury will never be forgiven, even though they chose the right book to win in the end. "

Only because the right book was sufficiently short (..."

I just added Mothering Sunday to my tbr shelf and I also just learned something new, after wondering why there were so many books titled "Mothering Sunday" and looking it up--it's not a holiday I'd heard of before.

poingu wrote: "wondering why there were so many books titled "Mothering Sunday" and looking it up--it's not a holiday I'd heard of before. ."

Oddly I had the opposite experience - Swift has his narrator, looking back from the late 90s, refer to "what used to be called Mothering Sunday". We would still call it that in my family even today and still observe it every year (although we don't give the maid the day off!!).

Surprised to see the Booker threads so quiet as we're only a few weeks away from the longlist. Has anybody read anything else?

Of those I think are eligible I've read Maggie O'Farrell's This Must Be The Place which I thought was good in places but far outstayed its welcome and stretched itself too thin with too many voices telling the story. It's my first read of her novels and I might try another one.

I also read My Name Is Lucy Barton which I'd be very happy to see on the longlist - a quiet bullet of a novel.

I got half way through The Essex Serpent and got very bored. Vicorian sensation isn't a genre I'm particulary familiar with so maybe much is lost to me but nothing so far makes me want to continue reading it. Seems very formulaic. It's had very good buzz though - has anybody read it and is it worth carrying on with?

Favourite novel this year though is Garth Greenwell's What Belongs To You, which I initally thought didn't quite work as a novel as it's told in three distinct parts (one of which was originally a novella) but I've changed my mind and it has stayed with me since - I'd be surprised if this didn't make the longlist as to me it's shortlist material.

Anybody read any of these?

My Name is Lucy Barton is still my favourite, hope it makes it on the list. I'm currently reading Edna O'Brien's The Little Red Chairs. It took me a while to get into it - it has almost a magical realism feel to it - but it's grown on me as it goes on.

I haven't read these, but here are a few not mentioned so far in the thread, which I wouldn't be surprised to see:
Paul Kingsnorth - Beast
Danielle Dutton - Margaret the First (an odd one as it's out as an ebook in the UK now but print edition not scheduled until Dec)
Jeanette Winterson - The Gap of Time
(could understand excluding all these Shakespeare rewrites, however)
Lionel Shriver - The Mandibles: A Family, 2029-2047
Francis Spufford - Golden Hill
Joanna Cannon - The Trouble with Goats and Sheep
Yaa Gyasi - Homegoing

A couple of USA-publication orientated lists which likely have some contenders unmentioned so far - would need to check UK pub dates:
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/9...
http://www.themillions.com/2016/07/mo...

There are currently 179 books on Philip's list of eligible books:
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/9...
and quite a bit of discussion underneath

Ang wrote: "My Name is Lucy Barton is still my favourite, hope it makes it on the list. I'm currently reading Edna O'Brien's The Little Red Chairs. It took me a while to get into it - it has almost a magical r..."

Oh, I forgot I'd read The Little Red Chairs. Liked the first half, really didn't like the second half if i remember rightly.

Antonomasia wrote: "I haven't read these, but here are a few not mentioned so far in the thread, which I wouldn't be surprised to see:
Paul Kingsnorth - Beast
Danielle Dutton - [book:Margaret the First..."

At the moment Homegoing is listed for UK release in 2017 which i think is odd if they want to be considered for the booker. Maybe it'll be brought forward. It seems it's out on Kindle over here though. How does that work?

Antonomasia wrote: "There are currently 179 books on Philip's list of eligible books:
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/9...
and quite a bit of discussion underneath"
An entertaining list - looking at the lists for previous years suggests that apart from the Sense of an Ending, the eventual winners that were on the lists didn't come that close to winning the votes. I won't speculate because I have not yet read anything this year that is not already available in UK paperback...

Carl wrote: "At the moment Homegoing is listed for UK release in 2017 which i think is odd if they want to be considered for the booker. Maybe it'll be brought forward. It seems it's out on Kindle over here though. How does that work?"
http://themanbookerprize.com/submissions
Eligibility
a) Any novel in print or electronic format, written originally in English and published in the UK by an imprint formally established in the UK (see 1b. below) is eligible.

@Hugh Some libraries are surprisingly good at getting this sort of thing soon after publication.

I've been completely confused by whether or not Homegoing is eligible or not due to its availability on Kindle. It seems to be a little tricky since the rules also state:

iii. that the novel in question is one for which the publisher has been allocated a UK International Standard Book Number

When I look at the Kindle edition available on amazon.uk it appears to be carrying the US ISBN number. So does that mean that, although available to UK readers via Kindle, it isn't actually eligible for consideration this year?

Yet it's published by Penguin, the book's UK publisher. Knopf are the US publisher.
Here is the ISBN for the non-Kindle ebook, which may be more relevant: http://www.sainsburysentertainment.co...


Is there anyone in this group who knows about identifying UK ISBNs, maybe through working in the book trade?
This new rule makes working out eligibility for the MBI especially complicated, because there are various small publishers based on the Continent who issue books translated to English (e.g. Hispabooks, World Editions) - and those might be eligible if they have UK ISBNs.
(The Rules page appears to have been moved and/or changed again, but last time I looked at the MBI rules, which had been under the main MB rules, the bit about the UK publisher had disappeared and been replaced with the bit about the UK ISBN.)

Ah, found what seems to be the answer:
http://www.isbn.nielsenbook.co.uk/con...

Where can I get an ISBN?
ISBNs are assigned to Publishers in the country where the Publisher's main office is based. This is irrespective of the language of the publication or the intended market for the book.

The ISBN Agency is the national agency for the UK and Republic of Ireland. Publishers based elsewhere will not be able to get numbers from the UK Agency (even if you are a British Citizen) but should contact us for details of the relevant Agency.

ETA, and this http://www.isbntools.com/details.html from 2003, relating to ISBN-10s, seems to indicate there isn't an automatic way to tell UK and US ISBNs apart just by looking at them.

Also:
http://www.ala.org/tools/libfactsheet...
The ISBN-13 consists of thirteen digits separated into the following parts:
Prefix of "978" converts existing ISBN-10 to the ISBN-13 system (three digits)
Group or country identifier, national or geographic grouping of publishers (one digit)
Publisher or producer identifier (four digits)
Title identifier, particular title or edition of a title (four digits)
Check digit, for ISBN-13 validation (one digit)

All that might help with the Continental MBI publishers I was wondering about, but not so much with the UK/US division, unless there's someone around who knows the publisher identifiers.

Time to stop lurking...

Another vote here for Mothering Sunday.

I enjoyed The Noise of Time well enough, but wouldn't be disappointed to see it passed over.

Thoroughly enjoyed the slightly bizarre High Mountains of Portugal.

Not sure where to go next with Booker, but currently enjoying the obviously not eligible Six Four by Yokoyama.

Will wrote: "I've been completely confused by whether or not Homegoing is eligible or not due to its availability on Kindle.

I bought a paperback copy of Homegoing at the Boekhandel Dominicanen in Maastricht last month. It's a UK edition, published by PenguinRandom House, with an ISBN-13 of 9780241242735. According to The Book Depository it was released on June 6th.

Darryl wrote: "I bought a paperback copy of Homegoing at the Boekhandel Dominicanen in Maastricht last month. It's a UK edition, published by PenguinRandom House, with an ISBN-13 of 9780241242735. According to The Book Depository it was released on June 6th. "
Thanks! That would seem to clear things up properly.