Chicks On Lit discussion

Setting up this thread for our April Group read of A Constellation of Vital Phenomena by Anthony Marra, discussion leader Irene. Irene, please feel free to post a reading and discussion schedule.

Who is joining us for this one?

Reading Schedule:

April 1-7: Read Ch. 1-9
April 7-14: Discuss Ch. 1-9 & Read Ch. 10-18
April 14-21: Discuss Ch. 10-18 & Read Ch. 19 to end

Okee dokee.

I am in. I have started reading last week. I have found it quite engaging right off.

Just started this one today, and have to say I love the writing style. It pulled me right into the story!

I am interested in how an author can write a story that its time line is 5 days and write so much. Hhmmm

I'm midway through chapter 4 and I think it's growing on me.

How is everyone doing? I am finding this one really engrossing, though sad, and I am wondering where we are being led.

I agree with you Irene. I cant imagine what it is like to have to dodge state military police at checkpoints and be afraid of the night. I cant imagine a world where bombs go off at anytime and wolves get blown to bits by landmines. Ahkmed worries me but at times seems to be the only sane character in the book. Havaa remains a child in a world that has abandoned her and deprived her of everything.

Also are we answering any of the extra libris questions at end of book?

I just read this for RL book club and will try and follow your schedule. It was somewhat hard for me to get into at first, simply because I didn't have any clue about the background wars between Russia and Chechnya. The timelines and points of view need getting used to, but following along closely helps. The book definitely gets more engrossing as you read, and although hard and sad, it's beautiful writing with some humor in it. Definite humanity.

My favorite character is Sonja. She is tough and very wise.

Is anyone else having problems keeping the characters separate? I don't know if it's because of the names or because it seems like a lot of people early on. So far, I prefer the parts at the hospital.

Jennifer W wrote: "Is anyone else having problems keeping the characters separate? I don't know if it's because of the names or because it seems like a lot of people early on. So far, I prefer the parts at the hospital."

I think it is because of the names, which are unusual to some of us. Took me awhile to keep straight who were the fathers, who were the sons, who were the "good guys", who were the gun runners. :-)

Well, it looks as if people are appreciating this book.

Before reading this one, did you know much about the conflict in Chechnya? Do you think that knowing something about the historical situation helps in a book like this? Or, is the themes of war and secret police common enough in the past century that it is universal? Did any historic detail in the first part surprise you?

We are given a number of characters in these first 9 chapters. I was surprised how much depth we have for each of them in only 135 pages. Do you have a favorite or least favorite? Why?

We are given a man who resorts to being an informant to survive, but who also becomes isolated. He may survive materially, but he is dying socially. Can it ever make sense to or be alright to inform on neighbors? His father protests by his silence and refusing to share in the food gotten by informing. Is his protest right? enough?

Why does Akmed think that Havaa will be safe at the hospital?

Jennifer W wrote: "Is anyone else having problems keeping the characters separate? I don't know if it's because of the names or because it seems like a lot of people early on. So far, I prefer the parts at the hospital."
I had problems with the names. I had to go back and forth to keep them straight.

I don't even know where Chechnya is. I figured it in the area of Russia. I know where Georgia is and it talks about that. In regards to the theme of war and secret police, I wasn't surprised of it occuring because it is a common problem in other countries. We read about this in the news. You hear it in stories from people who come from countries in that area.

In a communist country where there is no food or clothes, being an informant was a way to find favor to get food and items needed to survive. The problem was the information being reported were lies and the police blindedly picked up people and killed them. It's wrong. I agree with his dad because it's blood money. It's not different from goods from a drug dealer. It's blood money.

I actually wound up sympathizing with Ramzan once I got yo his background story, but I didn't realize he was turning in innocents.

It would've helped to know the geography and history of the wars, but war in general has common themes to be able to follow. Frankly, my local news station is just fluff, and it's amazing how little we are informed (or care to be) in the U.S.

I knew the general outline of the Chechnyan war, but not too many details. Chechnya got a bit of attention after the Boston Marathon bomb because the brothers were Chechnyan. But, even though I don't know details, the setting feels so familiar. It feels like so many totalitarian dictators of the past century. I can't imagine living under that constant stress. Those who maintain their intigrety in such situations have my admiration.

I picked it up because I was curious because it took place in Chechnya. I feel like others I am not sure I am piecing all of the stories together well with all the characters but they are very interesting. The name Gorbechev seems familiar in my growing up years.

I think Sonja is my favorite so far she is strong willed and blunt and we know what she is thinking and feeling.

I can't think that there is much trouble to get into at the hospital, a place full of sick and dying people seem really a safe place so maybe safety also if they don't want her found it probably would be a good place for her to hide.

I was thinking that a hospital would be a likely place to take a child, especially one who might have sustained injury or frost-bite when hiding from her father's abductors.

Are all of us reading this in this group Americans? If so, I find it disturbing that we aren't familiar with Chechnya or as Rebecca points out, even the name "Gorbachev". I think it is okay that we don't know every political name but it is important to know areas such as Chechnya and people such as Gorbachev because of the atrocities that occurred there and/or because of them. If we don't know the BASICS of history we are doomed to repeat it and learn nothing from the past. Is anyone else disturbed by this? Or disturbed by the fact that we are so complacent in NOT KNOWING? Are we all about the same age (I'm an 80s baby)? Just interested as I think we can change the way we teach our children so that we avoid this problem (yes I am a teacher but don't teach because of the current changes in the education system).

Here are some basics on Chechnya:
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chechnya
- http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-... (great general resource that outlines everything from basic info to religion to the wars/conflict to "why it is important to know this"
- http://www.nytimes.com/topic/destinat... (several current event articles on Chechnya)
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail... (Gorbachev article)

Is anyone else surprised at Marra's writing style? What is it that draws you into this book? I can't figure out why I am so drawn to his characters when the book is about such a depressing topic?!

Well, I am a bit older than you. I was long out of college before this conflict began. Gorbachev is a familiar political figure. I was aware of the conflict in Chechnya, had read human right reports that attributed attrocities to both sides. Of course, due to their greater military and political might, I hold the Soviets in greater responsibility.

I suspect there are many reasons why some of us are less familiar with the Chechnean conflict. I agree with you that we need to be aware of what is going on. That is one reason why I enjoy sharing books like this. More than the evening news or any paper, an author like Marra can engage our imagination to help us empathize with the fictional characters who represent real life people. I no longer believe that those who are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it. It seems as if we will repeat history whether or not we know it. We have more information at our disposal than ever and we continue to abuse military and political power, violate the human rights of civilian populations, perpetrate injustices. I did not feel as if I had to know anything about Chechnya in reading this novel. It felt as if you could have substituted any number of dictators and oppressed people and it would have been much the same.

QueenAmidala28 wrote: "Is anyone else surprised at Marra's writing style? What is it that draws you into this book? I can't figure out why I am so drawn to his characters when the book is about such a depressing topic?!"
I totally agree with you. I wonder if it's because you hear each character's voice and passion about what they believe and stand for. You hear their fears.

I am drawn to his outstanding writing. Each character is given depth, unique voice and personality without multiplying unnecessary details. He creates vivid atmosphere. I feel the longing, the fear, the anxiety, the tenderness, etc.

I read The Tsar of Love and Techno in January. GR voices told me that this was even better when I praised that one. So far, I like the Tsar of Love and Techno better. I loved the way each section was a stand alone story because I like the short story. I liked the weaving of details between stories. But, I think that more than anything, I loved the excitement of discovering a new author that I found amazing.

I stayed up late last night finishing this week's section. Any thoughts on chapters 9-18?

We have been given more of the back stories of each character. We understand a bit more clearly why each acts and reacts as she or he does. Did these back stories cause you to reevaluate your opinion of any character?

Ranzan's story was the most striking. Learning of what occurred at the land fill softened me toward him. Why does Marra hold such mitigating information until we have already formed one opinion of a character? I am wondering if Marra wants the reader to reconsider his or her attitudes toward individuals they have judged, toward Chechnean extremists, toward Soviet soldiers, toward drug addicts, toward the refugees flooding over borders today. If we could hear each person's story, would we hold a different opinion of that person.

Irene I feel the same about what Marra's wishes for the reader. I think for me I want to judge the sisters relationship at times very critically but then I also find how raw and twisted it is and it's beautiful to me.

I honestly have to say section two has me very confused. I am worried I still haven't figured out the relationship dynamics and why. I seemed to get really caught up in Natasha and Sonja.

There is a lot of description and imagery which I love but I think I focus on it more than I should.

What in the second section has you confused? I am nearly finishedwith the book, so I might misremember what happens in the second vs third section.

What is the relationship between. Ramzan,Dokka, and Akhmed. They are friends? I did get that one is having an affair with the others wife. There is also Ramzan and his father I don't really get there political/ military affiliation.

Ranzan and Akhmed are half brothers, same father, but Akhmed is illegitamote and never publically acknowledged. All three men are neighbors. Akhmed had a very brief (a couple of days) sexual encounter with Dokka's wife. All are anti-Russian, but Ranzan has begun informing on his neighbors to the Russians. Ranzan has been picked up and tortured twice by the Russians. The first time he with stood the torture, even tbeing castrated, and never informed. The second time he informed to stop the torture after days of it. He continues to inform out of fear, as much for himself as for his father who might not survive without him.

Thank you Irene. That helped me. I am almost to the end of 18 and it is more clear to me now.

Sorry to be gone for a bit, I was on vacation for the last week! :-)

I'm currently reading the final section of this book though. Trying to stay caught up!

The time change, forward and back, threw me for a bit, but I think this is a puzzle that is being built piece by piece for us, to show us basically how all of these characters are intertwined and somehow related to each other.

I finished last night.

Well, according to the reading schedule, discussion of the final section of the book begins today.

What did you think of the book?

Did your opinion of characters change over the course of the book?

What did you think of the ending?

Havaa's story is projected well into the future. Do you think the reader was given the actual story of Havaa's life or the hoped for story?

What do you think the title of the book means?

Natasha walks away from Sonja; Dhokka and Akmed are taken away from Haava. Does it make a difference how people are removed from relationships?

Akhmed's portraits are prominant in this novel. What is Marra trying to say? Why do these drawings of the disappeared mean so much?

There is a lot of back flashback memories and events, that makes it interesting and engaging to keep track. Im not finished, but it's sad where Natasha ended up.
Ramzan had a dysfunctional childhood and was castrated in his early 20s. Ramzan should have told his father how he was put into the situation. I'm enjoying the book.

I've finished, and I am "digesting"! LOL

Engrossing story, and I enjoyed learning about Chechnya, though I am not sure I understand or agree with the blurb that is listed on the cover of my copy of this book: "A flash in the heavens that makes you look up and believe in miracles...I haven't been so overwhelmed by a novel in years. - Ron Charles, Washington Post"

What about this book was a "flash in the heavens that makes you believe in miracles"???? There was no miracle in this. A bunch of people suffered terrible horrors, and those that survived seem to be just by chance and luck.

Is Haava the miracle? Is the miracle that a people can survive such a situation and not just survive, but thrive?

Was Havaa Akhmed's daughter?

The title of the book is just that. They survive to live as an organism.

Hope I'm not too late! Just got book, will start reading later today

Hope I'm not too late! Just got book, will start reading later today

Haava is Dhakka's daughter. Akhmed is the neighbor who watched her grow up. Akhmed also had a brief affair with Dhokka's wife,but if I am reading the time line correctly, Haava was already born. I was wondering if the pregnancy that killed Dhokka's wife might have been conceived by Akhmed.

Helen wrote: "Hope I'm not too late! Just got book, will start reading later today"


We would love to hear your thoughts as you read along.

I finished the book. What a tragic life one lives in these areas. I strongly believe that these are the type of books our students should be reading from 4th grade through college. It will really appreciate our country and the laws in place to prevent this type of events. Of course, it should be written for young readers to understand the situations people are put into. How there is no individual freedom because of big government.

The characters are related through a circular motion of events. That's a great talent to have as a writer.

What I appreciated was that these characters were not tragic figures, although the situation was tragic, but strong, heroic, and ultimately, triumphant. I loved the ending sceen with the two man dancing and crying out Haava's name. Books like these teach the reader empathy and the dignity of every person.

I agree with both of the Irenes!