The Evolution of Science Fiction discussion

This is to discuss the second group read - The Voyage of the Space Beagle by The Voyage of the Space Beagle by A.E. van Vogt

I don't yet have a copy of this ones, I was looking for a Kindle copy but it doesn't seem to exist, then I thought i'd try my local library but it doesn't have it either. Third try will be tomorrrow at the second hand bookshop, hopefully that will have it.

Whew. I had to request this book through Link+ in my public library. I tracked it down in an academic library. It will show up someday.

This is an old favorite. It's 3 short stories put together to create a novel. It revolves around a scientist without a specialty. Interesting concept.

Surprisingly the second hand bookshop didn't have any books by A.E Van Vogt at all so still no copy. Think i'm going to have to find a copy via amazon but not sure when it will arrive. Guess that means I will be reading Brave New World first.

A lot of Van Vogt's work is translated in dutch. He must have had a big audience. I own some 20 translated titles, including the Space Beagle.

Jo wrote: "I don't yet have a copy of this ones, I was looking for a Kindle copy but it doesn't seem to exist, then I thought i'd try my local library but it doesn't have it either. Third try will be tomorrro..."

Can't seem to get hold of a copy either. I'll try ordering through the library system; might turn up, eventually.

I've read Slan by van Vogt. It was pretty good. My library doesn't have a copy of Beagle in any format. Apparently there isn't a Kindle version. I'll have to order a print copy when I get back from my trip to the UK. It will be August before I get to it, if at all.

So whilst looking for a copy of this yesterday, I came across this site http://www.prosperosisle.org/spip.php...

You can read the novel on-line and as well there are ebook versions you can download (kindle and epub formats) - i'm not sure if there are any restrictions by country for copyright reasons. I haven't checked out the quality yet.

It also has quite a few of the works of A. E Van Vogt as well as other authors.

Jo wrote: "So whilst looking for a copy of this yesterday, I came across this site http://www.prosperosisle.org/spip.php...

You can read the novel on-line and as well there are ebook versions you can..."

Thank you for this Jo. I also found there van Vogt's The World of Null-A in Kindle compatible format. It's been on my to-read list for a long long time.

I definitely saw both Slan and Space Beagle in Oxfam the other day and didn't pick them up! Now I know it's a group read I'll go back and check if they're still there.

When I searched on amazon, this book was available in ppbk ($15.68) and Kindle ($5.99). Are we talking about something different here?

My public library didn't have the book in its collection, but I was able to request it through the multi-library consortium that my public library belongs to. As we speak, the book may be trundling north to me from southern California. :-))

CS wrote: "When I searched on amazon, this book was available in ppbk ($15.68) and Kindle ($5.99). Are we talking about something different here?
.."

Nope the same thing. When I search for a Kindle version on Amazon nothing comes up. I see the ppbk as you mention but no Kindle. Same if I search on my Kindle. Don't know why it's not coming up if you see one, maybe regional?

I suspect copyright issues for Belgium. See post by CBRetriever that begins "when you register your kindle..." Here:
http://www.amazon.com/forum/kindle?_e...

I never realized before how this could be an issue across different countries.

Amazon infamously pulled 1984 from some Kindle users due to giving them a free copy of the wrong edition which was under copyright in some places & not in others. It's a PITA & obviously ridiculous in this day & age. The world is too small.

As long as the author is registered through Ingram or Baker and Taylor you can walk into any of your local bookstores and they can order you a copy of the book and you can go pick it up when it arrives. Give your bookstore a call if you are not sure if the book is registered. Most self-published and regular published books are registered. Hope this is helpful.

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I started reading The Voyage of the Space Beagle last night. Didn't get very far.
This book, published in 1950, is a concoction of four stories according to Wikipedia:
"Black Destroyer" 1939, (chapters 1 to 6)
"War of Nerves" 1950, (chapters 7 to 12)
"Discord in Scarlet" 1939, (chapters 13 to 21)
"M33 in Andromeda" 1943, (chapters 22 to 28)

It was republished in 1952 under the title Mission: Interplanetary

Voyage of the Space Beagle (the Basis for Alien)

https://www.bookdepository.com/Voyage...

A couple of editions have this as the title. IMDB doesn't confirm it

I have got to get to this, but I'm bogged down right now. Too many things to read & not enough time. 4 stories, not 3? I'll have to check my old HB edition to see if it is my memory or the edition. Thanks for posting that, Buck.

I can see Alien coming out of this. There is one critter much like it.

I pulled out my copy last night. It's an old HB from 1950 & doesn't have a TOC, but does list 4 copyright dates inside that coincide with the different stories. I should start reading it today at lunch.

I'm most of the way through the first story & very impressed on this re-read. Van Vogt managed to pack a lot of ideas into this story without ever bogging down. 'Kitty' is a really interesting alien with a great food source & powers, too. There are some old time staples such as everything being atomic powered, but that just gives it flavor without being overbearing.

The book was reprinted in 2008. If you look at the copyright page on Amazon, the original book copyright is listed as 1950, renewed in 1977 by the author. I would assume the author's estate now holds the copyright.

As far as I know, there is no difference between the various editions. The author did not fiddle with the stories after he wrote them. Once collected, the stories were repackaged and reprinted numerous times. This website shows the original artwork of early editions, and gives the publishing history.
https://www.blackgate.com/2014/09/24/...

"Space Beagle was first published in hardcover by Simon & Schuster in 1950...That’s a very rare and collectible book today." Better hold onto that book, Jim.

My public library has notified me that my copy has arrived. I'll pick it up tomorrow.

I doubt my copy is valuable. I have the original dust jacket, but it's in pieces & some of the pages are dog-eared. The binding is still in good shape, though.

I had a chance to read most of the rest this afternoon. I wasn't thrilled with the second story. Reached a bit too far, although I found some of his political comments interesting. The third story was better. I like the cyclic history bit that runs through this. His pseudoscience is better than something like the Lensmen series.

Unlike so much of the Golden Age SF, this is very readable, can still evoke some real thought, & has the roots of Star Trek & the Alien movies in it. I gave it 4 stars in my review here:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I've read the first two now. I pretty much agree with you Jim. I really liked the first one, the alien was pretty scarey. The second one I didn't enjoy as much, it started well and the idea was good but then it drifted and kind of ended unsatisfactorily. On to the third one now.

I read the first story last night, thinking about Star Trek's prime directive, modern environmental laws, and the Endangered Species Act all the while. :-))

The material is well written, although the narrative structure leaves something to be desired. I know, I know, these are four stories that were smooshed together into one book. I'm approaching the material as a kind of time capsule for the norms and ideas of its era.

Jo wrote: "I've read the first two now. I pretty much agree with you Jim. I really liked the first one, the alien was pretty scarey. The second one I didn't enjoy as much, it started well and the idea was goo..."

I've just started the third story, too. My reaction is similar.

CS wrote: "I'm approaching the material as a kind of time capsule for the norms and ideas of its era. ."

Yep. Me too.

The first story of this 'novel', "Black Destroyer" has one of the most ominous opening sentences of all time in a science fiction story. The "Space Beagle" stories were the start of an obsession for me to read all that van Vogt wrote. Not always the best writing I ever came across - far from it in most cases - but always good fun and an interesting discovery. You wanted to know what far out thing he would come up with next. Van Vogt wrote with a whimsical flare.

For anyone interested, the late Isaac Walwyn (aka Wilcott) created the finest website dedicated to this author. I had personally made some contributions.
https://spacerubbish.wordpress.com/

Denis wrote: "The first story of this 'novel', "Black Destroyer" has one of the most ominous opening sentences of all time in a science fiction story. The "Space Beagle" stories were the start of an obsession fo..."
Impressed you read all his work. I read only 4 or 5 of his books and based on them I agree with your opinion about the quality. What do you think was his best novel?

I've only read Slan, which I thought was rather good, better than The Space Beagle, though I'm not finished with it yet.

I know you asked Denis, but The Silkie & this book are my favorites by him. Like The Voyage of the Space Beagle, The Silkie started out as a few short stories that were later put together into a novel. Instead of Nexialism, there is the "Logic of Levels". The main character is interesting, a shape-changer that meets aliens & protects Earth from them.

Slan and The Silkie, thanks guys.
And of course, Null A is still on my tbr-list.

The suggestion by Jim of "Silkie" is interesting - and a good one. It was the result of van Vogt's return to writing after a 10 years hiatus, encouraged by Frederik Pohl, in the mid sixties, who was editing Galaxy magazine at the time. Some of the Silkie stories were bits he had been dabbling with during that 'off time' (working with L.Ron Hubbard on his Dianetics project - once Mr. Hubbard worked at turning it from a 'mind experiment' to a "religion", van Vogt was out.)

I personally feel that his early short stories are his best work - "Destination Universe!"and "The far Out Worlds of A.E. van Vogt" is a good place to start.

I admit that I have not yet 'all' of his work - most of it, yes, but have collected it and am still getting through it. My favourite novels thus far are, "Empire of the Atom" and sequel, "Wizard of Lynn" which is sorta based on "I, Claudius". "Rogue Ship" is an other 'Space Beagle' type story. And finally, Cosmic Encounter" (1979) is probably his best later work. I can always find some genius in most of it yet overall, it is simply 'crazy' at times, which,I suppose, is part of the appeal.

Just to mention, "A la Conquete de Kiber" (1975) is a novel only ever published in French and Romanian. As I am bilingual in French and English, I took it upon myself to re-translate this novel back into English simply as a personal project. It may have played a part with influencing me for my love for this author's work.

Hope this helped.

Cheers!

Thanks Denis for sharing. Really fascinating this cooperation with Ron Hubbard. I would like to read Hubbards books some time.
I've got the Van Vogt novels you all mentioned so I'm happy to put them on my list. I read Rogue Ship and really liked it. Better than the Space Beagle until now, I must say.

I am currently re-reading "Space Beagle" and am happy to have this opportunity to re-evaluate it. -Thanks to Jo for bringing it up.

Denis wrote: "I am currently re-reading "Space Beagle" and am happy to have this opportunity to re-evaluate it. -Thanks to Jo for bringing it up."

Thanks! I think though, thanks are due to Jim for nominating it :-) It was my first novel by A E Van Vogt and a good introduction. I've particularly enjoyed the different aliens he imagined and it's encouraged me to try some of this other novels when I have time. I'd like to read something that was written as a full length novel rather than a series of short stories. I think his ideas were good but in a couple of stories they were a bit curtailed.

van Vogt is an anomaly. I find it absolutely fascinating that John Campbell Jr. took to him so as he did. Any other editor on the planet would surely have tossed most of his work to the slush pile without a second thought, but yet I am so glad that this wasn't so, as we had the good fortune to read, and be influenced by, some of the most creative ideas to the genre. An alternative to the norm.

Finally finished The Space Beagle yesterday. We are touring the UK and I haven't had time to be online. this is first in time several days. will add comments about it after we return to USA next week.

Another day, another alien. Is it a lonely floating ugly red one? Or maybe a whole planet full of telekinetic angry birds? No problem, our young and clever hero takes care of it.
It's very entertaining to see the variety in Van Vogt's alien cultures. But I'm with Jo, after a while I would like to read a longer story. And Van Vogt also writes those. So I'm happy to have read this 4 stories and looking forward to the novels mentioned here.

I slogged through this book. Yawn. It does fulfill the theme of this forum on the evolution of sci fi.

Two stars. My review:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I read that this was the inspiration for the the movie Alien, but I don't see it. Both are about encounters with monstrous aliens, but that's about as close as it gets.

I finished this about 10 days ago and it wasn't memorable enough to write about.

Buck wrote: "I read that this was the inspiration for the the movie Alien, but I don't see it. Both are about encounters with monstrous aliens, but that's about as close as it gets."

Buck maybe you missed the part where the ugly red one laid his eggs in the crew's guts. Little ugly red babies almost hatched.

I remember that. A similarity yes, but the situation was quite different, I thought.

True.
Wikipedia says:
"At first glance, the alien Ixtl also appears to be an inspiration for the film Alien, though those involved with the film denied any influence on its part. Van Vogt initiated a lawsuit against 20th Century Fox for plagiarism, but the case was settled out of court, the details of which were never disclosed."

Leo wrote: "...Wikipedia says: 'Van Vogt initiated a lawsuit against 20th Century Fox for plagiarism, but the case was settled out of court, the details of which were never disclosed.'"

Considering the gigantic sums spent on making a film, it was cheaper to pay off Van Vogt and shut him up, rather than endure a lawsuit and bad publicity. My take.

Also, I just want to say that even if this book is blah to read now, it's a marker in the development of sci fi, so it's worth reading in this forum. I'm not sorry I read it.

I found the ideas behind, if not the execution, of Nexialism really interesting. Grosvenor constantly found solutions because he knew something about many fields rather than specializing in one. Even back then there was too much information for most to have much knowledge outside their specialty. It's only gotten much worse today.

The idea of learning how to learn was a good one, too. Again, it wasn't developed well, just hypno-learning.

I just completed re-reading "Space Beagle" for the second time in a ten year period. As stiff and humourless (though the geekiest of geeks will chuckle here and there - and I am guilty) as this episodic collection of yarns is, for the time it was written, it's not too shabby. If you read the stories from the pre-Campbell Jr. pulps, you'll find that in comparison, these stories are pretty cool and rather innovative on some level. Though there were the odd contemporary who were equally, on to the next thing, van Vogt was a fresh voice, and visionary in the evolution of the genre.

The World of Null-A has been on my to-read list for a long time. The Voyage of the Space Beagle and Slan are the only other van Vogt books I've read. I rather enjoyed Slan more that Beagle. Has anybody read Null-A?

"Null-A" and "Players of Null" are both examples of 'crazy' van classics. I liked them, but had to reread three or four times - very atypical style of writing and not for everyone but unique, that's for sure.