The Light Between Oceans Read-A-Long discussion

CHAPTER 11-15 DISCUSSION

These chapters of The Light Between Oceans had me hooked. There was a feeling and picture that was consistently painted throughout this chapter, and that was Tom’s inner torment about keeping baby Lucy.

I have come to notice that Stedman packs meaning into every line and the words spoken by the characters. A very interesting part to read was Tom burying Lucy’s father and his flashbacks from the war. It was his call for forgiveness to God that was a very powerful moment. This moment not only solidifies that he is against the decision but also that he is wiling to go along with the lie to appease Isabel, asking for mercy on her as well.

As we see Lucy grow up on Janus, we also see that Tom’s torment is relentless. He is cornered from every side and reminded of his biggest sin. It seemed that every innocent moment he tried to go with his life, such as reading Lucy a bedtime story or filling in his log, he is struck with the hard truth – the “iron collar” of this lie.

Chapter 15 is where the plot thickens! We learn the story behind Lucy’s arrival on Janus and that her mother is still alive and well. More importantly, we see the strong moral divide between Tom and Lucy – Tom desperately wanting to tell the truth and Isabel using all her pull to refuse.

There were so many impactful quotes from these chapters that I had to choose two:

“At night, Tom began to dream he was drowning…then pull him deeper and deeper into the dark water until he awoke gasping and sweating, while Isabel slept beatifically beside him.” (Pg 105, Ch 11)

“Tom felt a shiver creep through him. Just as he couldn’t now imagine having lived in this world without meeting Isabel, he realized that Lucy, too, was making her way inside his heart. And he wished she belonged there.” (Pg 109, Ch 12)

QUESTIONS:

1. Which characters are winning your sympathy and why? Has this been shifting over the course of the novel?

2. Is your notion of what was best or right shifting as you continue reading?

3. There was one quote I felt was interesting considering our previous discussions:
“ Stop it, Tom. I’m trying to say something…you just send me packing with some silly joke like im a child who doesn’t understand or cannot be trusted with the truth.”(pg 116, Ch 13).
Do you think Isabel is growing out of her naiveté or do you think that her continued actions prove she doesn’t understand the gravity of the situation?

4. What were your favourite quotes/ parts of these chapters?

I have to admit that these chapters have really got me completely entranced as well.

1. I am really feeling for Tom right now. He is such an honest man and I feel that he is suffering with Isabel's choices. There has definitely been a shift towards feeling empathy for Isabel to that for Tom.

2. Absolutely. At first, I was agreeing with Isabel that the baby was an orphan and would end up lost in the system. Now that we know who the mother is, this is just feeling wrong.

3. That is a tough question! I think she has matured on some levels. Especially through her abilities to mother. However, she does seem to act foolishly and has that impetuousness to her character still.

4. I thought it was interesting that Tom would not take part in the dad's race at the fundraising event. Isabel said something that really made me wonder about what's to come in the story: "Never mind, Lucy. I'll go in the mum's race instead. At least one of your parents is prepared to make a fool of themselves for you."

1. I've always felt a bit of sympathy towards Tom. I feel like all he really ever wanted was peace (literally and figuratively) and quiet after the war. He witnessed things that no one should have to so he wanted to be alone on Janus as a light keeper. He fell in love with Isabel and was happy to have her along, but then she started to claim the island, and a baby came along that wasn't theirs. I just feel like a lot has been piled up for Tom to deal with.

2. It's tough to read along now knowing what we know about the baby's mother. That she is alive and well, and just wondering where her baby went.

3. I think a part of Isabel will always be young and naive. Though she's grown into quite the mother, caring for and loving little Lucy. Only time will tell the further we read!

4. The small little part on page 109 where Lucy has fallen asleep in Toms arms and Tom and Isabel are talking really stood out to me. "It's just love, Tom. No need to be scared of love." Tom points out here that he was able to accept Isabel in his life and his heart, but he's worried that Lucy just doesn't belong there. To me, that's such a pivotal moment where we see into Tom and his true feelings towards this whole situation.

My favourite part was Violet finding out about her sons' deaths in the war. It's only about three or four pages but so powerfully written. The last two lines are deceptively casual:

"The first Violet knew of her second son's death was the bland package in her hands. It was an easy enough mistake to have made on the battlefield, she had said."

In contrast to the more emotional scenes between Isabel and Tom over the baby, the matter of fact approach to Violet's scene felt like a wallop, it was so unexpected.

It also possibly explains a bit why Isabel values motherhood so highly, and how the loss of her children must have reminded her of her mother's losses.

I like that quote you chose where Isabel accuses Tom of not taking her seriously. Her actions are selfish (albeit understandable), but that doesn't mean she didn't think it through.

This book is getting so good and I love reading everyone comments.

Up to Chapter 15, it was starting to look like maybe it was for the best that Lucy was with Isabel and Tom. She was doing so well with them and Isabel was a great mum. We also found out that Lucy was helping Isabel’s parents get over the loss of their sons in the war. It did seem like she was exactly what everyone needed. Then, we get the first hint of who Lucy’s birth mum is and what she has gone through.

I agree that M.L. Stedman packs so much into each line. In every chapter, we see Tom’s inner torment about keeping Lucy. Even though he loves Lucy and would do anything for her, I don’t think there is a time when he forgets that they should not have kept her. I also realized that Tom is the one who had to actually do everything to keep Lucy --- digging the grave, burying the body, getting rid of the boat, sending the notice of Lucy’s birth, not recording that a boat arrived on Janus.

1. Stedman has brilliantly made all characters come to life. I have sympathy with almost every character. From the beginning, I have had sympathy for Tom because of his childhood, war experiences and his trying to do what is right for Isabel, even if he knows it is not really the right thing to do. I thought the scene where he is digging the grave and remembering back to the war when this same action became just a regular task was heartbreaking. I have had sympathy for Isabel when she had her miscarriages and stillbirth, and now we discovered that she had losses in her childhood, as well. After learning more about Isabel’s parents, I think that Isabel moving out to Janus must have felt like losing their last child. Now, after learning about Lucy’s birth mum, I feel for her and I think that my sympathy will shift even more to her.

2. Yes, My thoughts about what was best are changing now that we know about the baby’s mother. The mother is not just a nameless person; she is a woman that was cut off from her family for marrying the man that she loved. Now she has lost her husband and baby and has not recovered from it.

3. There were a few times in these chapters that we saw Isabel does realize deep down that they did not do the right thing, but she justifies it by her belief that Lucy was a blessing sent to them after all of the pain. There was a line in Chapter 13 she admits that she knows how much Tom did for her and how thankful she was to him. There was also the time before their shore leave where she thought of not going so she could remain in the safety of Janus. She is also prepared with the replies that Tom can’t bring himself to make, like when Ralph and Bluey ask if Tom was useless Tom was at the birth and when at the Church Fete, Tom was asked if he was the baby’s dad.

4. I found the letter that Violet received from the mum of another wounded soldier very touching.

I also liked this quote “The isolation spins its mysterious cocoon, focusing the mind on one place, one time, one rhythm – the turning of the light. The island knows no other human voices, no other fingerprints. In the Offshore Lights you can live any story you want to tell yourself, and no one will say you’re wrong: not the seagulls , not the prisms, not the wind” (pg110, ch12)

All the characters have their own grief to deal with and as we get to know them it's difficult to not sympathize.

In these chapters, we see Bill and Violet Graysmark's love for their granddaughter put into perspective with all that they had lost. Their backstory of their sons dying in the war was done well. We haven't ever had Isabel speak about it in such detail. This definitely made me see her differently. Was her initial cheeriness with Tom her way of dealing with the loss of brothers? Did she put this on to help her parents' suffering too?
With the Graymarks' happiness of having Lucy it begins to put into reality that Tom & Isabel's decision of keeping her will affect them all.

The theme of morality is what this book is centered on. All the characters so far are not necessarily good/evil. They all have their reasons for what they do, and it makes them more human. I see Tom's strife as understandable in the same way I regard Isabel's love for the child as natural and good. Their happiness of having Lucy now seems different after our introduction of Hannah. Does that make me feel that what they did was bad? No, because they did it out of love for each other and the child. Now that we have Hannah involved though, it does complicate everything.

Isabel definitely thrives as a mother. It's what helps 'heal' her so to speak, and she wants to share that with Tom. This renewed sense of strength has made her sure of her choice. What she is feeling contradicts the reality of the situation.

Isabel realizes that she is the most vocal out of the two. This quote is her acknowledgement of his perception of her. She knows that their relationship needs work. In this way, she is mature enough to realize the effect of keeping Lucy has on them. However, she is only focusing on them and their life on Janus.

My favourite quote too was the Tom mermaid dream. It clearly depicts his inner moral turmoil and then to have Isabel restful beside him was a perfect demonstration of the growing divide between them.

1. Tom has my sympathy, because right from the start he wanted to do the right thing when the baby arrived. He let his love for his wife outweigh his feelings for doing the right thing. I've always been with Tom on this.

2. I can understand Izzy wanting to keep the baby, but I still feel as though they should have notified authorities about the baby and apply to adopt her if that is what they wanted to do.

3. I think she chooses to turn a blind eye to the gravity if the situation, because this child means more to her than anything. It's almost as if the role of mother is more important to her than doing the right thing is.

4. I think you nailed my ideas and thoughts for this section with the two quotes you listed at the beginning of this post. You can feel how torn Tom is... he loves Izzy a day Lucy, but is sense of right and wrong seems to be weighing on him dearly.

Annie- the quote you listed at the end of your comment is sticking in my mind too.

I found that it became much more clear in this section that Isabel is incredibly manipulative.She plays on Tom's every weakness especially the issue of an orphanage which she brought up in the first place. Then, she rubs it in "Tom, I'm so grateful you gave me Lucy."

This specific setting plays a huge role in this situation being able to continue. If they lived on the mainland, it would never be carried on.

When they return to the mainland for their leave, I was astounded by how easily Lucy socialized. After living her entire life in isolation, I would expect her to make strange with so many people.

The story of Violet learning of her second son's death moved me like no other scene in the book. I have more compassion for Isabel after knowing this information. It is interesting that neither Tom or Isabel has a big extended family. They are both willingly isolated from the family that remains to them. It must be hard on Violet to be separated from her final remaining child.

During the section where Tom is tested for suitability to return to the lighthouse they talk about mercury poisoning. I wonder if the concern surrounds the lights? If so, I can understand why he is tested. If the concern is based on something else on the island, why aren't they testing Isabel and Lucy too? I was curious about it so I did a little bit of Google research. Mercury poisoning was definitely an issue because of the Mercury bath the light sat in to make it easier to rotate. The keepers would have been exposed to it frequently and residue would have made its way throughout the lighthouse.

One big problem I have with this section of the book is regarding Isabel's sterility. Could her miscarriages be related to mercury? The doctor convinces her that she is experiencing early menopause. My calculations show that when she saw the doctor, she would have been 26 years old approximately. In searching online, I have found no evidence of menopause occurring at this very early age. Does anyone else have any knowledge of this? It bothers me that the doctor was so quick to brush her off with this easy diagnosis. Then, I consider what medical doctors would have known about female reproductive health during this period of time. I expect their knowledge was limited. Reading about the mercury issues made me wonder if Isabel is suffering from side effects related to the proximity to Mercury. Not just reproductive issues, but also her mental health.

This part of the story made me think of the book The Deep End of The Ocean by Jacquelyn Mitchard. Tom and Isabel are the family who "abducted" someone else's child and now we see the impact it is having on Hannah and her family.

QUESTIONS:

1. Which characters are winning your sympathy and why? Has this been shifting over the course of the novel?

I have sympathy for Violet and Bill, Isabel's parents. I have sympathy for Lucy and I certainly have sympathy for Hannah. I have more sympathy for Tom and Isabel now than I did after the last set of chapters, but I am still disturbed by their decision.


2. Is your notion of what was best or right shifting as you continue reading? Slightly. Not as much as I would have thought. I still believe that they should have reported the incident and turned "Lucy" over to the authorities. They aren't an authority on the situation just because Isabel knew one person who had a bad experience in an orphanage.

3. There was one quote I felt was interesting considering our previous discussions:
“ Stop it, Tom. I’m trying to say something…you just send me packing with some silly joke like im a child who doesn’t understand or cannot be trusted with the truth.”(pg 116, Ch 13).
Do you think Isabel is growing out of her naiveté or do you think that her continued actions prove she doesn’t understand the gravity of the situation?

If anything, I think Isabel is growing more and more naive and trying desperately to avoid the reality of her choices.

4. What were your favourite quotes/ parts of these chapters?

My favourite part was the brief section about the loss of Isabel's two brothers.

Am I the only one who is starting to get a little annoyed by Isabel and Tom?

Isabel's manipulative and self-serving, and Tom would let her get away with murder. The more I read about the two of them together, the more I am waiting for something to blow up. And I guess that's coming. At this point of the book, as much as I would hate to have to read about Lucy being hurt, I want the kid to be taken away from Isabel, because I think Isabel deserves to suffer. (I'm not a fan of Isabel, incase that wasn't obvious...)

Reading this slow is causing me to ruminate on the most recent parts of the story a bit more than might be good. It's causing me to be annoyed with characters, when I previously wouldn't have given it thought. It's interesting.

1. Lucy, by far, followed by Isabel's parents, because they're the innocent ones in this scenario. Earlier in the book, I did feel a bit sorry for Tom, because he's had a rough go of things. But he's digging his own grave, and now I just want to say 'I told you so'. I've always had sympathy for Lucy, though, from the very beginning.

2. Not really. It's common sense stuff, when it comes down to it. Maybe an orphanage wouldn't be the best place for a child, if that had been the case, but lying is worse because you don't know who is being hurt by your dishonesty.

3. Isabel is naive as the day is long, and combined with her chosen ignorance, I think she's setting herself and Tom up for failure. And isolating herself on an island where they can be and do what they like is only making everything worse. Instead of growing up and facing the music, she's pretending that the world revolves around her, and she's taking Tom down with her.

4. I loved all the scenes with Isabel's parents. They're such fantastic characters, and it was great to see where the came from, and what Lucy has done for them.

1. I have sympathy for all of them. Each of them has suffered loss. The grandparents, Izzy, Tom, Lucy and her birth mother. I suppose I feel most sympathetic to Tom as he seems to suffer the most with his moral dilema.

2. I don't think I'm shifting yet. I think Tom should have done the right thing and notified the authorities about the body and baby.

3. The quote is a reminder that Izzy is still fairly young and yes, naive. I think she is blinded by her desire to be a mother and doesn't consider the consequences for Tom or Lucy's birth mother.

Tom is very respectful and buries Lucy's father rather than sending him back out to sea. I can't help but wonder if the body will be unearthed and discovered shortly. Also, the rattle seemed to be an interesting part of the story. It seems unique and expensive. Will it provide a clue to someone?

I think that if somehow Izzy's parents do discover the truth that they might actually be willing to maintain the secret as well.

Shonna wrote "I think that if somehow Izzy's parents do discover the truth that they might actually be willing to maintain the secret as well. "

I hadn't thought of this, but it got me thinking too, and I am not sure I agree. After enduring the loss of two of their own children, I wonder if they would have more sympathy for Hannah. As much as Lucy has brought them hope, I believe their sense of right and wrong is more solidly based in reality than Tom and especially Isabel.

Am I the only one who thinks that Lucy might be better off with Tom and Isabel than with her birth mother? We don't really know much about her yet but I have a feeling that her and her wealthy family are going to raise hell when they find out what happened. Not all mothers are fit to raise a child and I think that would be an interesting twist to the story if it goes that way. Isabel and Tom made a bad decision in the moment but to tear Lucy away from the only family she's ever known would be cruel. At this point I think it is kindest to shut up about what they did and keep the child. They really need to throw away that rattle though because I'm convinced it is how they are going to get caught in their deception!

Stephanie wrote: "I found that it became much more clear in this section that Isabel is incredibly manipulative.She plays on Tom's every weakness especially the issue of an orphanage which she brought up in the firs..."

Your point about Isabel's diagnosis is really interesting to me and the connection to the mercury. I never considered that as possible reason for all the miscarriages.

I also loved this connection:

"This part of the story made me think of the book The Deep End of The Ocean by Jacquelyn Mitchard. Tom and Isabel are the family who "abducted" someone else's child and now we see the impact it is having on Hannah and her family."

I find it interesting that Tom and Isabel don't actually acknowledge (or want to acknowledge) that essentially they have kidnapped someones child.

Excellent discussion everyone!

1. Tom is winning my sympathy. All he wanted to do after the war was be alone and try and be at peace with what he went through. Then he's thrown into this situation that sways his judgement. This life was not what he expected when he became the light keeper at Janus.

2. Now that we know that the baby has a mother that is alive it's hard to see it being right that Isabel keeps the baby. However, I do feel empathy for both of them.

3. I think her in the mother role has definitely shown some maturity but she is still young and naïve. I mean, she "kidnapped" a baby. She knows that Tom will do whatever she wants and she knows just how to manipulate him.

4. I like the quote posted above with the difference in how Tom and Isabel was sleeping. He is clearly conflicted knowing that this is wrong wrong wrong and it's causing him to have nightmares. While, she on the other hand can sleep soundly with their actions. She thinks she's safe because they live in their own world in Janus. Time will tell if things change.

I think they need to realize that they can't be so immersed in this lie and think that they will get away with it. They think about themselves and not the parties involved (Hannah, Lucy, Isabel's parents, Hannah's family).

Definitely still siding with Tom, though I did see the movie trailer before reading, so I knew that her real family would be alive and well. Having that information proven in chapter 15, however, makes it increasingly hard to have empathy for Isabel's decisions. Not when it means someone else is suffering.

As for whether Isabel understands the gravity of the situation, I'm not sure. I mean, she does know what it means to lose a child personally and from seeing her mother suffer when her older brothers both died.

And I think it's true that since they just realized that Hannah was Lucy's real mother the day before they were meant to leave, it would bring up a lot of drama, possibly making it impossible for Tom to take over his duties on time. However, I don't think that means it was the right answer, and I certainly don't think it will make things any easier if they continue to keep Lucy if they're found out later somehow. If anything, it will make the crime that much worse.

I think my favourite part was when Tom overheard Violet and Bill taking about how being grandparents isn't the same, but it almost makes up for losing their two sons. It just makes Tom feel even more uncomfortable and guilty because how can he take away their happiness as well as his wife's by coming forward with the truth. Great was to raise the stakes.