The Evolution of Science Fiction discussion

This folder is to discuss any of the other nominated reads that did not win the poll. Feel free to add your comments / reviews / questions. This can be this month's poll or previous polls.

The books for August 2016 are as follows:
The Demolished Man
The End of Eternity
A Case of Conscience
Player Piano
The Death of Grass

Has anybody read The Death of Grass? I've been wanting to read this for a while but I seem to remember being told that it seems quite dated.

Jo, thanks for setting up this folder.

No, I haven't read The Death of Grass.

I've requested A Case of Conscience from my public library. I'm planning to read that one.

I read Asimov avidly many many years ago. Over time many of the books have faded in my memory, and some I don't remember at all. So a few years ago started occasionally rereading Asimov. This is a good one, though perhaps not among his best known Robot or Foundation series. The End of Eternity is good science fiction and a good story. I thought I had read all of Asimov's novels, but I can't imagine not remembering this one.

The Demolished Man is classic science fiction in the manner of Asimov, Clarke, and Heinlein, with a touch of PKD thrown in for good measure. This is something of a detective story that in the end becomes a psychological thriller. Set in a futuristic world, it moves along pretty well and has a strong psycho finish.

The remaining three are books I'd like to read.

I didn't realise we had this thread – nice to see! I finished reading The End of Eternity yesterday and thoroughly enjoyed it. I wanted to reread The Demolished Man as well as I remember enjoying it so much last time, but my sister is currently borrowing my copy.

If anybody wants to discuss any of the books that did not win the poll for September the list is as follows:
All Flesh is Grass by Clifford D. Simak
Solaris by Stanisław Lem
The Einstein Intersection by Samuel R. Delany
Make Room! Make Room! by Harry Harrison
Planet of the Apes by Pierre Boulle
The Penultimate Truth by Philip K. Dick
The Drought by J.G. Ballard

I've read 'Einstein', 'Make Room', & "Apes', so can skim through & discuss any of them. I might be interested in reading 'Grass' or 'Drought'.

I have The Drought on my Kindle and plan to read it later this month. I'm quite intrigued by how planet of the apes reads. I've read Solaris and The Penultimate Truth.

I've read Solaris and Planet of The Apes. Would like to try and read Make Room! and All Flesh Is Grass if I finish Dune in good time.

I read A Case of Conscience by James Blish last weekend. Not a pow-pow space adventure, but more of a philosophical inquiry framed in sci-fi. This parable-like story suited me, but may not be quite the thing for others. Thanks to Buck, who nominated this book.

Four stars. A link to my review below. I put a *Spoilers* warning on it because it is difficult to discuss the crux of this book without giving specific details.
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

CS wrote: "I read A Case of Conscience by James Blish last weekend. Not a pow-pow space adventure, but more of a philosophical inquiry framed in sci-fi. This parable-like story suited me, but ma..."

I've read a few things by Blish, some good, some so-so. Still haven't gotten around to this one

Just finished Solaris by Stanislaw Lem, which I chose to read instead of this month's Dune. A very layered and philosophical read that questions our anthropocentric perceptions of what 'life' in the universe actually means. Might feel rather slow-moving for anyone who prefers their sci-fi more action-based, but for me - well, I quite enjoy more reflective novels anyway, provided they don't stand completely still. Would have given it four and a half stars if the half star option had been available; although I enjoyed it very much, I didn't find it quite as riveting as Mieville's The City & the City, which I read earlier this month.

Next up for me will probably be The Einstein Intersection.

I read Solaris last year. I enjoyed it quite a lot to start with, but disliked the direction it took. I don't mind philosophical books, but it felt like it just got a bit too much and didn't really go anywhere.

I did like the original 70's film adaptation alot, and thought the ending was genius. It's fairly faithful to the novel and captures the atmosphere quite well.

Donna Rae wrote: "Next up for me will probably be The Einstein Intersection."

I'll join you on that one. No pressure if you change your mind. It sounds interesting, I would like to read it.

Joel wrote: "I read Solaris last year. I enjoyed it quite a lot to start with, but disliked the direction it took. I don't mind philosophical books, but it felt like it just got a bit too much and didn't really..."

I haven't seen the film, but I'd like to now after reading your recommendation.

CS wrote: "I'll join you on that one. No pressure if you change your mind. It sounds interesting, I would like to read it. "

Great! I've already got a copy, just finding the time to start it. My own fault, really - I've always got more than one book on the go.

Well, I really enjoyed The Einstein Intersection - not what I was expecting at all. Very strange right there at the beginning, but once I got into the style and its idioms, a wonderful tale about difference. Like Gaiman's American Gods, it helps if you're familiar with the myth of Orpheus, but it's not essential. Thank you whoever nominated it!

Donna Rae wrote: "Well, I really enjoyed The Einstein Intersection - not what I was expecting at all..."

You're welcome. Similar: Have you read This Immortal or Creatures of Light and Darkness? The first is about Pan, sort of, in a post apocalyptic world. The latter is very weird, but enjoyable. Egyptian mythology.

I just got the Einstein Intersection from my public library today. It had to be requested from another library system. Look forward to reading it.

Jim wrote: "Donna Rae wrote: "Well, I really enjoyed The Einstein Intersection - not what I was expecting at all..."

You're welcome. Similar: Have you read This Immortal or Creatures of Light and Darkness?

Hi Jim! No, I haven't read either of those; in fact, the only Zelazny I've read is Damnation Alley and that was years ago. I've added your recommendations to my TBR list, though (which is growing mightily!), and hopefully I can get round to them soon. Also to add to my TBR: more Delany. The Einstein Intersection was my first, but I don't intend it to be my last! So thanks again, Jim.

CS said: "I just got the Einstein Intersection from my public library today. It had to be requested from another library system. Look forward to reading it."

Hope you enjoy it as I did, CS.

Solaris by Stanisław Lem is supposed to be one of the classics of SF. I was underwhelmed & could only give it 2 stars in my review here:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Thanks for sharing, Jim. I think my thoughts were fairly similar. I gave it 2.5 but didn't get round to writing a review.

Joel wrote: "Thanks for sharing, Jim. I think my thoughts were fairly similar. I gave it 2.5 but didn't get round to writing a review."

My friends reviews were all over the board. They made 3 movies about the book which I just looked up for another discussion. I found it interesting that at least 2 of the movies dropped the psych & science babble to concentrate more on the people, exactly what I thought would have made the book better.

Well i've just finished The Drought by J G Ballard which I nominated. I have to say I really didn't enjoy it that much. The premise is good and relevant to today, the sea has been covered with a chemical which can't be broken down and so there is no rain. The story follows what happens afterwards but starting from the point where the world is already in drought.

I've liked most of the other books i've read by Ballard but not this one. Didn't like the characters or the way it was written very much at all. Maybe it's due to the fact it was one of his earlier novels but anyway it's probably a good job that it didn't win the poll.

Good to know, Jo. On the opposite side, a friend of mine recently wrote a book called Humid. Too much water in the atmosphere. I liked it.

Jim, I read Solaris many years ago, and I felt much the same way about it then. I've considered re-reading it, but probably not after reading your review.

Jo, thanks for telling us about The Drought by Ballard.

I've read all of Ballard's short stories--they are collected in one big book:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7...
and I'm inclined to think that Ballard was stronger in the short form. (Suggestion: if you want to get this book, get the ebook, not the dead tree version.)

If anyone wants to do a 'buddy' read let me know.

Finished Einstein Intersection yesterday. Do Spider or Green-eyes match any mythological figures? I couldn't place them.

3 stars, my review:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

CS wrote: "Finished Einstein Intersection yesterday. Do Spider or Green-eyes match any mythological figures? I couldn't place them.

3 stars, my review:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show......"

It appears Delany liked to mix his myths up a bit in this one, but then, if you're an alien race taking up where humanity left off thousands of years before - as Lo Lobey, etc are intended to be- then I guess those stories and ideas are bound to muddle up. I found this link rather helpful, the second page of which answers your question, CS:

http://www.enotes.com/topics/einstein...

Donna Rae wrote: "...if you're an alien race taking up where humanity left off thousands of years before - as Lo Lobey, etc are intended to be..."

An alien race, really? An alien race deliberately landed on earth still hot with radiation? I didn't get that point at all. :-))

So I went back to the book to its only lucid section, the conversation between Lobey and Spider at the end, and yup, the author does say in a few sentences (buried in the verbiage) what his premise is.

I thought this was a post-nuclear holocaust story. Some Earth people got off the planet, others stayed behind or got left behind. People like Lo Hawk and La Dire have genetically survived the holocaust better, and they still have access to star travel--or something. Good videos? Meanwhile all the others breed like crazy in the hope of viable adaptations to Earth conditions. The old stories and myths, like their lives and bodies, are no longer constructed the same way as before the nuclear holocaust. Really, I think my interpretation is more logical. :-))

Is it clear why the aliens would take over Earth in this manner? What's in it for them?

This is what I wrote about The Einstein Intersection in 2014. For the life of me, I don't remember the book:

Delany wrote in his journal, excerpts of which are inserted into this book: "Endings to be useful must be inconclusive." I was concerned about this oxymoronic statement as I neared the end of The Einstein Intersection, and yet its ending is not too inconclusive.

An ending that is not a conclusion. Such would be useful to a writer who intends a sequel. For myself, I eschew series. I like closure. An ending should conclude. Did Delany write sequels to this book? I don't know - maybe - none that I know of.

The Einstein Intersection - surrealistic. Not great but not bad.

I've always liked it & liked it more as I reread it every 5 or 10 years. It is good &/or surrealistic at times, just plain weird at others. Oddly enough, I find they aren't always the same.

I was interested enough to finish it. The vibrant imagery, wordplay, and surrealism kept me going. Past a certain point, I didn't try to make much sense of it. Characters were coming back from the dead...c'mon.

CS wrote: 'I thought this was a post-nuclear holocaust story.'

I thought this for most of the book, too; it does seem more plausible than that of an alien race (if plausibility is the right word to use, considering the strangeness of the rest). But I really enjoyed it nonetheless because it was imaginatively written and unlike anything I've previously read - as with the recent group read, The Martian Chronicles, I was quite prepared to suspend my disbelief over its many improbabilities.

Jim wrote: "...It is good &/or surrealistic at times, just plain weird at others. Oddly enough, I find they aren't always the same."

Donna Rae wrote: " ...I was quite prepared to suspend my disbelief over its many improbabilities."

I think the key is Spider's abstruse and belated explanation about Einstein's and Godel's law at the end. "Einstein defined the extent of the rational," says Spider. Godel said (I think, from reading Wikipedia) that no system is complete to explain everything, nor can it prove its own consistency. That leaves the irrational and inconsistent, which also occur. Delany is giving us a picture of an irrational universe. Its story makes no sense, and in an irrational way, that, uh, does make sense.

Spider says he is Iscariot, Pat Garrett, and Judge Minos all in one, and the epitome of a traitor. I remember reading that, but Spider still didn't fit any archetype I could place. Spider is executioner and final arbiter in death, something like Pluto in Greco-Roman mythology, and as a traitor, he is the one who breaks trust and is unworthy of trust--Satan? Spider also appears to be the character most in charge here. He is the Knowledge of this reality, if you interpret his huge library with that meaning. I suppose in an irrational universe, our conventional idea of a just and benevolent, all-knowing God cannot rule.

I did like the idea of Green-eye in the Jesus/redeemer role (from e-notes). As a prince, he also takes on the quality of being a king-like savior someday--King Arthur, not only Jesus.

I suppose one could go through this book and mull over other symbology by Delany. I'm not going to do that myself. A little bit of an irrational universe goes a long way. :-)

Good thoughts, CS. I always associated Godel with proving god & time travel, the irrational side of Einstein's 'rational' relativity equations. Anyway, it's weird enough that I seem to come away with a different idea of just what the intersection is each time I read it. Read it again in a few years or so & see what think then. It's pretty quick & fun to ponder.

If anybody would like to discuss any of the books that did not win the poll for October the list is as follows:
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams
Gateway by Frederik Pohl
The Futurological Congress: From the Memoirs of Ijon Tichy by Stanisław Lem
Mind of My Mind by Octavia E. Butler
334 by Thomas M. Disch
A Dream of Wessex by Christopher Priest

For once i've read a lot of these (all except 334 and Mind of my Mind). All are good in their own ways. The Hitchhiker's Guide to the galaxy is clever and funny although very British humour, Gateway is good traditional sci-fi, Futurological congress is the oddest and Dream of Wessex is probably the best prose. I will try to read 334 if I have time this month.

I was thinking of reading Dream of Wessex. But first I'm trying out the two monthly selections.

I read all of the Douglas Adams Hitchhiker books years ago and thoroughly enjoyed them. I also watched the original BBC series and thought it was great. The titles of his books are a lot of fun as well.
So long, and thanks for all the fish! says it all.

Rosemarie wrote: "I read all of the Douglas Adams Hitchhiker books years ago and thoroughly enjoyed them. I also watched the original BBC series and thought it was great. The titles of his books are a lot of fun as ..."

I agree totally both the books and the series were clever and funny. I've been meaning to read The Salmon of Doubt which is one of many books on my shelf waiting to be read.

November's side reads are as follows:
Mockingbird by Walter Tevis
Startide Rising by David Brin
Contact by Carl Sagan
Other Americas by Norman Spinrad
Dawn for a Distant Earth by L.E. Modesitt Jr.

So for this month's side reads i've only read one already which is Mockingbird. I really loved it and would highly recommend if you don't want to read The Handmaid's Tale.

There are a couple of others i'd quite like to read although whether I will manage it or not is another thing. I don't seem to have as much time to read at the moment as i'd like.

Of these, I've read Mockingbird, Startide Rising, and Contact. Not familiar at all with the other two.

Mockingbird is good. Tevis is an excellent writer. I wholeheartedly recommend his The Man Who Fell to Earth.

I saw the movie, Contact, with Jodie Foster and William Hurt years ago. Later when I read the book, I was a little disappointed. It's not bad, but not great. I do like to read Sagan's non-fiction.

I just finished the third book of Brin's Uplift trilogy. Startide Rising is the second. I'm sure some folks will love it, but for me it was just alright.

I'm skipping this month's read. I've never been an Atwood fan. Instead I read A Dream of Wessex by Christopher Priest.

A fascinating precursor to virtual reality. People go into trance and through a mechanical "projector" enter another 3-dimensional world. Thanks to Joel for this nomination.

CS wrote: "I'm skipping this month's read. I've never been an Atwood fan. Instead I read A Dream of Wessex by Christopher Priest.

A fascinating precursor to virtual reality. People go into tra..."

I agree it's a great book. I'm a big fan of Christopher Priest I like his ability to create imaginary words. If you want to read something else by him and don't mind things being slightly weird i'd highly recommend The Affirmation.

December's side reads are as follows:
To Say Nothing of the Dog by Connie Willis
The World at the End of Time by Frederik Pohl
The Difference Engine by William Gibson
Metropolitan by Walter Jon Williams
Buddy Holly is Alive and Well on Ganymede by Bradley Denton
Donnerjack by Roger Zelazny

So for December's side reads i've not read any so i'm afraid I can't make any recommendations whatsoever!