Reading the Chunksters discussion

wow. I barely even know what to say about this section, but the full power and force of Hugo's writing is in full effect in this section. The writing literally blew me away, I can't imagine prose more visceral, more emotionally gripping, more hauntingly beautiful. Our poor child, so close to death, and then the savior of a young infant found on her dead mother's breast! Oh, is there any more tragic and heart rending scene as this! And our poor child, even in such a horrific state, actually takes off his warm coat to warm the infant, though he has been wading in icy waters, though he is practically unable to move, though his limbs are weary and frozen and he knows if he falls he will never arise. Then these suffering babes are ignored by everyone whose doors they knock on, though our young boy can't even knock properly and is reduced to a hapless pounding. At this point it is not all of the horrors and neglect that he has suffered that give him the feeling of utter hopelessness and dejection, it is the shunning of humanity once he has finally, against all odds, struggled and found them. Yet we finally have our saviors, and did any of you guess??? I could not believe it, but there it was, our Ursus and Homo, who had so little in their wind blown van, but restored these two to life.

Have any of you, in all honesty, ever read a novel that is as emotionally devastating as this? I am mesmerized by this book at this point.

I was in tears reading about the infant and the dead mother....broke my heart. I kept thinking that this book couldn't possibly continue to be this bleak but I had to continue reading.

I am thankful that they have found Ursus and Homo...and have a chance.

I was also thankful for somewhat of a distraction for the beginning of Book III and away from all the tragedy.

Hugo is a very skilled and descriptive writer.

In the whole of Part II Book the First Chapter II, I was amazed at the parallel to our own change of government about to happen.

"It is disagreeable to see one's fellows practise obstinacy. Imitations of Regulus are not popular, and public opinion holds them in some derision. Stubborn people are like reproaches, and we have a right to laugh at them..." etc

I don't know anything about Hugo's politics but this chapter seems tongue-in-cheek, like The Onion of today. Does anyone know if it is?

I'm just still surprised I'd never even heard of this novel until a few weeks ago. This is truly a pleasant surprise (quality-wise) and is such an emotional powerhouse of a novel!

Dianne wrote: "wow. I barely even know what to say about this section, but the full power and force of Hugo's writing is in full effect in this section. The writing literally blew me away, I can't imagine prose m..."
Dianne, the only book I can recall reading that is this visceral is last year's "A Little Life", during which I shed more tears I think than I've ever shed at other than a family death.

Denise wrote: "I was in tears reading about the infant and the dead mother....broke my heart. I kept thinking that this book couldn't possibly continue to be this bleak but I had to continue reading.

I am thank..."
Denise, agreed, Hugo, via this work, stands out as an excellent author, much more so for me than after reading "Les Miz" and "Hunchback." And yes, so wonderful Hugo gives us, and his characters, hope!

Peg wrote: "In the whole of Part II Book the First Chapter II, I was amazed at the parallel to our own change of government about to happen.

"It is disagreeable to see one's fellows practise obstinacy. Imitat..."
Peg, that's a fascinating take. I try to avoid politics (but I do vote on issues which impact me and my neighbors/friends directly and I did vote in the POTUS election) in real life, and when I read, I don't dwell much on political issues, although in reality one could argue that everything is political. Fellow readers have argued over the politics of Rand's Atlas Shrugged' since its publication. I have read it twice: I only see that it's the most pretentious soap opera I've ever read, and I absolutely love it on that entertainment level alone. I do think the brilliant, the strong, the movers and shakers should indeed move and shake, and I appreciate that, but I'd really rather just read for entertainment.

Dianne wrote: "wow. I barely even know what to say about this section, but the full power and force of Hugo's writing is in full effect in this section. The writing literally blew me away, I can't imagine prose m..."

Diane, all: did anyone find the discovery of the infant as a girl (by the child and by Ursis) described differently as perhaps some kind of cultural thing? The child identifies the enfant as a girl when he sees her. Ursis identifies the enfant as a girl by the way she screams (Hugo specifically points this out). Would readers, at that time, feel that the older man identifying the enfant as a girl by her appearance be offensive in some way? As a juxtaposition: the author has no problem with Ursis identifying the child as a boy via physical appearance.

To All: Hugo praises children, then turns around and writes, at the end of the chapter: "They were there as in the nest of the abyss." Hugo isn't about to end a chapter without us instantly wanting more. Amazing.

And then, another bombshell which is the last line of Part One: "See, 'said Ursis.' She is blind." Now at this point, in our daily, hectic lives, it's difficult to not turn the page and say "to hell with my to-do list." Perhaps this is on the side of romantic melodrama, but who cares?

Greg, all, but when we turn the page we are met with strange gobbledygook about some peer named Clancharlie who preferred Cromwell's republic. It seems Hugo wants us to pay for getting the satisfaction he so obviously knows we want--frustrating but it does pull me along.

Peg wrote: "Greg, all, but when we turn the page we are met with strange gobbledygook about some peer named Clancharlie who preferred Cromwell's republic. It seems Hugo wants us to pay for getting the satisfac..."
Peg, I'm going to assume that Cromwell's politics have something to do with the story, but it does feel odd. (Oddly, I'm reading Mantel's 'Wolf Hall" right now and Thomas Cromwell is the central character, as you many know.

Peg wrote: "Greg, all, but when we turn the page we are met with strange gobbledygook about some peer named Clancharlie who preferred Cromwell's republic. It seems Hugo wants us to pay for getting the satisfac..."
Peg, and about politics, I loved the following line by Hugo: "It is a bore to have to vote; I want to dance." I couldn't have said it better.

To all: There are some final lines of this week's chapters/parts that I love:
"Mary Stuart played with a fan, Elizabeth with the axe. And uneven match. They were rivals, besides, in literature."
and:
"...a taste for deformity existed...singularly among beautiful women. Where is the use of being beautiful if one does not possess a baboon?." (I don't have a baboon handy, so that's why I often dress sloppy so as not to gain to much attention. It's a heavy cross to bare, but often a fine accessory, as the line goes in "The Birdhouse" film.) Anyway, this statement in the book ties in beautifully with the story.
But:
My favorite lines of all so far: "To make Love prosaically decent, how gross! To deprive it of all impropriety, how dull!" I think this foretells of an "improperly viewed", to some in the book, relationship between The Man who Laughs and the Blind Girl.
So I'll just stop typing and say:
I think all of this is going to mesh beautifully.

Denise wrote: "I was in tears reading about the infant and the dead mother....broke my heart. I kept thinking that this book couldn't possibly continue to be this bleak but I had to continue reading.

I am thank..."

I totally agree Denise, the combination of Hugo being such a visceral and gripping writer and also have such beautiful turns of phrase, this book really is compelling. He is tricky though, how he always has a quick change of action just when you are at a cliffhanger!

Peg wrote: "In the whole of Part II Book the First Chapter II, I was amazed at the parallel to our own change of government about to happen.

"It is disagreeable to see one's fellows practise obstinacy. Imitat..."

I think you are spot on with this comment Peg, Hugo has a lot of acerbic and pointed political and social commentary peppered throughout the novel, and it is amazing how much is applicable today!

Wow yeah this section was heartbreaking. I agree with the above about A Little Life coming to mind as the only other book this emotional and bleak.

The frozen milk on the nipple I mean wow just wow talk about visceral!

I did find the last bit frustrating. I know it will mesh together in the end but he does frustrate me the way he drops a bomb and then you turn the page and it's all these new people and political at that!

Greg wrote: "Dianne wrote: "wow. I barely even know what to say about this section, but the full power and force of Hugo's writing is in full effect in this section. The writing literally blew me away, I can't ..."

i totally agree Greg, after reading A Little Life Jude stayed with me for days, everyone was so real in that book. Here, while I am horrified at this point I am not quite as devastated, but I am nervous about what the ending will be of this book...

Greg wrote: "Peg wrote: "In the whole of Part II Book the First Chapter II, I was amazed at the parallel to our own change of government about to happen.

"It is disagreeable to see one's fellows practise obsti..."

This is a fascinating point, the role of literature in politics and social policy... Somehow I doubt most of those in power (the movers and shakers, so to speak) have much time/inclination to read literature, but even if they do I highly doubt they look to it as a source of policy. I think novelists, however, have a unique vantagepoint in that they can connect disparate events over time and space and comment in ways that resonate far beyond the time and location they were originally intended to address (as shown by Peg's comment in the way that Hugo resonates in the political arena today). So while I wouldn't want to read a novel that is overly 'preachy' in this regard I do think the commentary is valuable.

Greg wrote: "To All: Hugo praises children, then turns around and writes, at the end of the chapter: "They were there as in the nest of the abyss." Hugo isn't about to end a chapter without us instantly wanting..."

he has many of these chapters that end abruptly! Where you are thinking, what? Or he totally changes the scene entirely! Wait for it, because we will lose sight of our child again in the next section for yet another digression!

Greg wrote: "And then, another bombshell which is the last line of Part One: "See, 'said Ursis.' She is blind." Now at this point, in our daily, hectic lives, it's difficult to not turn the page and say "to hel..."

not only the blindness of the girl, but our young boy and his laugh... we still don't exactly know what is going on with either of them. certainly they both will have much to overcome! frankly, however, it is amazing that they are both still alive at this point.

Peg wrote: "Greg, all, but when we turn the page we are met with strange gobbledygook about some peer named Clancharlie who preferred Cromwell's republic. It seems Hugo wants us to pay for getting the satisfac..."

he is a sneaky bastard! This section must be setting the stage again for something, but for what??? It certainly seem far removed from our two abandoned children and Ursus and Homo! Yet another totally different scene, like the shipwreck.

Greg wrote: "Peg wrote: "Greg, all, but when we turn the page we are met with strange gobbledygook about some peer named Clancharlie who preferred Cromwell's republic. It seems Hugo wants us to pay for getting ..."

Greg, I have wolf hall on my tbr. What do you think of it? Isn't it part of a trilogy?

Greg wrote: "To all: There are some final lines of this week's chapters/parts that I love:
"Mary Stuart played with a fan, Elizabeth with the axe. And uneven match. They were rivals, besides, in literature."
an..."

you are hilarious Greg. Your prettiness is duly noted, and we won't draw attention to it, with or without a baboon in tow. as for our two young children , I had NOT thought of that at all! I guess we will see! At this point these two are not very fleshed out as individuals, they are more like small embodiments of need (as small children so often are). Will be interesting to see how they fare as they get older, I imagine in some way or another they will be tied to one another for life after what they have been through.

Amanda wrote: "Wow yeah this section was heartbreaking. I agree with the above about A Little Life coming to mind as the only other book this emotional and bleak.

The frozen milk on the nipple I mean wow just w..."

agree amanda, when Hugo writes about the brainless and unlikeable clancharlie it just makes you even more annoyed that he changed the subject once again! I cannot think of another author who has used this technique so often.

Amanda wrote: "Wow yeah this section was heartbreaking. I agree with the above about A Little Life coming to mind as the only other book this emotional and bleak.

The frozen milk on the nipple I mean wow just w..."
Amanda, I think current writers would have structured this differently: the opening part about the boy, then the boat, then the rich/nobility would have all been jumbled together: we would perhaps not have gotten to the part where the child meets Homo/Ursis until the end of the book. That seems to me to be the difference in structure from then and many writers today.

Dianne wrote: "Greg....
Dianne, I'm on the uneasy side about the end of this book. But aren't books from the romantic period, well, on the romantic side in general (romance as in love/happy endings)

Amanda wrote: "Wow yeah this section was heartbreaking. I agree with the above about A Little Life coming to mind as the only other book this emotional and bleak.

The frozen milk on the nipple I mean wow just w..."
Yes, tears here at this house when I read this scene!

Dianne wrote: "Peg wrote: "In the whole of Part II Book the First Chapter II, I was amazed at the parallel to our own change of government about to happen.

"It is disagreeable to see one's fellows practise obsti..."
Diane, Peg, as I avoid politics if at al possible in real life, I tend to miss or not understand political references. Just not my thing, never has been.

Dianne wrote: "Amanda wrote: "Wow yeah this section was heartbreaking. I agree with the above about A Little Life coming to mind as the only other book this emotional and bleak.

The frozen milk on the nipple I ..."
Dianne, yes, perhaps the art of segue was foreign to Hugo.

Dianne wrote: "Greg wrote: "Peg wrote: "Greg, all, but when we turn the page we are met with strange gobbledygook about some peer named Clancharlie who preferred Cromwell's republic. It seems Hugo wants us to pay..."
Dianne, I recently read David Starkey's 880 page non-fiction account of the Six Wives. It seemed he left nothing out. Wolf Hall, for me, was so similar that I simply couldn't get into it and stopped after 209 pages! But most readers on goodreads rave about Wolf Hall, so maybe fore me I picked it up at the wrong time.

Dianne wrote: "Greg wrote: "To all: There are some final lines of this week's chapters/parts that I love:
"Mary Stuart played with a fan, Elizabeth with the axe. And uneven match. They were rivals, besides, in li..."
Dianne, I think the child and the girl will be split apart (bought as freaks for entertainment) and one will rescue the other from the smugglers and/or the nobility.

Dianne wrote: "Greg wrote: "Peg wrote: "Greg, all, but when we turn the page we are met with strange gobbledygook about some peer named Clancharlie who preferred Cromwell's republic. It seems Hugo wants us to pay..."
Yes, I think Wolf hall is first of a Cromwell trilogy, and I heard the second book is a much easier and better read, Bringing Up the bodies.

Greg wrote: "Diane, all: did anyone find the discovery of the infant as a girl (by the child and by Ursis) described differently as perhaps some kind of cultural thing? ..."

I took it just as his way of describing things, it's part of Ursis's character. The way he talked to the kids the whole time was kinda funny. I think it was adorable at the end how he adopts them and says that Homo is an uncle now. Also, the boy has a permanent laughing face. WOW. It is very interesting, especially when Ursis said he thought that practice was done away with ages ago (the Comprachicos) It's also cool how he just writes it off and basically won't delve deeper into the subject. Obviously, the boy has no idea about it himself.

There are so many lovely written passages in this week's reading. Many of them are already posted here. I also liked this passage.

"The ignorant man is in useful darkness, which, suppressing sight, suppresses covetousness: whence innocence. He who reads, thinks; who thinks, reasons. But not to reason is duty; and happiness as well. These truths are incontestable; society is based on them."

Book III

Regardless of missing this child while we're reading about the tribulations of the hooker, what was endured at sea paralleled the plight of the young boy on land...Nature remained equally abusive on land and on sea, sparing no one.

This poor child making his way through this blizzard of a storm, and yes, Dianne, what does he come upon...Another corpse...But a corpse of a woman with a suckling baby at her breast. Amanda, that scene was beautiful as Hugo draws similarity between the frozen drop of milk sitting on the mother's nipple to a pearl-Very moving. The immediate connection between this baby and child was something out of Romeo and Juliet...Star crossed lovers, it seems, as the baby rests her head on the child's shoulders finding her lips to his cheek...First kiss of those two souls (155).

If I thought what I have read thus far was not enough to tug at the heart strings, then, as the two made their way through town unable to find any comfort in human kindness feeling the coldness of men more terribly than the coldness of night, was enough to hold one's heart hostage (164). Hugo does point out, something I barely tied to the narrative on my own, he reminds us that the intentional coldness of men was attributed to the recent and severe outbreak of the plague in London, and that the fear of receiving sick vagabonds caused a diminution of hospitality everywhere (164). This behavior is understandable, but having been privy to this child's circumstances, it was unbearable to read about how close he is to help, yet nobody will come to his aid.

He finally runs into Homo and Ursus, who I wouldn't say kindly, invite in and show mercy upon the child and later the baby. Ursus' language towards these two was quite colorful and rough, I thought...I did not remember him being like this in Book 1 and was rather miffed at him for speaking to this unassuming child like he was. I am not sure what sort of alchemy has brought these four together, but I am grateful it has, and I look forward to continue reading about how their relationship will begin to unfold.

Peg wrote: "Greg, all, but when we turn the page we are met with strange gobbledygook about some peer named Clancharlie who preferred Cromwell's republic. It seems Hugo wants us to pay for getting the satisfac..."

Part II: Book 1: Chapters I-III
Clancharlie has been reintroduced to us in these last few chapters as he was one of the many in the long list of Urusus' who are mentioned in Part 1: Book 1: Chapter III. In fact, it was only name associate with "extra" information, where there was a note in the handwriting of Ursus': 'Rebel; in exile; houses, lands, and chattels sequestered. It is well'(29). I think he will be an important person as the narrative continues. Figuring out how Ursus truly fits into this picture of nobility, besides what we know from Book 1, is really very intriguing to me. Clancharlie sounds about as drab as hell, yet through Hugo's sarcastic voice, I found these three chapters necessary after what we have read thus far...I enjoyed another serious backstory riddled with a dry witty slant.

I can only agree with what has already been said: this was truly heart-breaking. Amanda, Ami et al., I shall never look at a pearl in the same way again.

When the children receive no answer at the doors, Hugo comments bitingly about how warm it is under the covers. In the end, only one who answers to them is human. For all Ursus's gruffness it is better that he complains and does it anyhow. This is so much better, as it says in the Scriptures (I forget the reference!) than someone who says "yes, yes", but does not do it.

Hilary wrote: "I can only agree with what has already been said: this was truly heart-breaking. Amanda, Ami et al., I shall never look at a pearl in the same way again.

When the children receive no answer at the..."

So true, Ursus at least has some integrity... Much better than the alternative where people talk the talk and are no where near able to walk the walk!