Review Group discussion

There are many discussions - across several social media sites - relating to whether reviews are important or not. Most authors state they consider reviews significant in achieving reader/sale goals. Perhaps these are seen as even more significant because of companies, such as Amazon, who will elevate the visibility of a book if it has a substantial number of reviews.

What I am particularly interested in is: What you either as a reader or as an author look for in a review?

I would appreciate you stating whether you are responding as a 'reader' or as an 'author'. Perhaps you consider your response is as both, though I would anticipate there are some differences between the different viewpoints.

Look forward to hearing from you on this on-going topic.

I want the same thing as a reader and an author: the truth. More specifically, I want a review to be as accurate as possible in helping me and other readers to know whether we would enjoy the book, and how much we would enjoy it. That is all.

As an author, I do not want people buying or reading my book who will not enjoy it. I'd rather have one-star reviews and no sales than sell the book to people who won't enjoy it.

As for the mix of reviews, I'd most like for the five-star reviews, the one-star reviews, and anything in between to be articulate enough about what they liked or didn't like, such that people who will enjoy my books will be induced to read them, and people who won't enjoy my books will be induced to avoid them.

As a Reader: I want reviews to focus on the story and the writing. I like to know WHY it worked/didn't work, more than a hash out of the plot.

If it's self-published I really appreciate reviews on grammar/editing, or if it's a series/incomplete story when it wasn't advertised as such.

I don't like reviews that are "I hate books about aliens, and this book has aliens in it, so I'm giving it a 1 star.) Those just frustrate me on all quarters.

As an Author: I again like to know why the book does work or doesn't work that isn't all tied in with someone's gut hate.

Nat wrote: "As a Reader: I want reviews to focus on the story and the writing. I like to know WHY it worked/didn't work, more than a hash out of the plot.

If it's self-published I really appreciate reviews on..."

Totally. I get irritated when I find that I'm reading a synopsis of the plot. I don't want to hear the plot! I just want to hear if it was great or not and why.

Thank you Jonathan and Nat, I am certainly in agreement with you. All we (author or reader) really want is honesty and clarity. Mind I have seen some authors get very upset if they get anything less than a 4* which, to me, is so very unrealistic. It is also rather arrogant as it implies they consider they having nothing to learn. No matter who we are we continue to learn right up to the end.

my best ever one star was this:
"I thought this would have been light hearted and suitable for people of a gentle disposition. I couldn't have been more wrong."

for this book.

I think it actually helped promote the book, Although how he could think it wasn't going to contain at least a few 'naughty bits' with that cover I'm not sure.
He also bought and one stared the first book in the series 2 days later... Strangely, he didn't like that either.

Emma wrote: "my best ever one star was this:
"I thought this would have been light hearted and suitable for people of a gentle disposition. I couldn't have been more wrong."

for this book.[bookcover:Tinsel Ti..."

People can be strange. But just goes to show: honesty pays, Well at least it did for you Emma.

Plus, I'm always suspicious of books that only have 5 star reviews. No book is that good that it can please all the people all the time.
The one star club includes all the greats, from Dickens and Shakespeare to modern success stories like J.K. Rowling and Dan Brown so if you find yourself joining, don't be too downhearted.

Emma wrote: "Plus, I'm always suspicious of books that only have 5 star reviews. No book is that good that it can please all the people all the time.
The one star club includes all the greats, from Dickens and..."

I agree. Have just been saying something similar in a Linkedin discussion.

Emma wrote: "my best ever one star was this:
"I thought this would have been light hearted and suitable for people of a gentle disposition. I couldn't have been more wrong."

for this book.[bookcover:Tinsel Ti..."

Lol! Literally. I saw a one-star review for a book in my genre and I would kill to have it on my book, for similar reasons.

I find many one star reviews so funny that I'd generally prefer them over a two or three star review.

That's a good way to approach erotica if you feel guilty about it! Just tell yourself, with every book, "Oh, this looks like a nice sweet story about a nice sweet girl. Definitely suitable for those of gentle disposition like me."

Erotica? Picture me huffing with hurt pride.
It's a finely crafted, humorous and character driven paranormal romance. Very deep and meaningful stuff.

Warning: Contains gratuitous festive references of a significantly English nature, kinky fairy action, and one frequently bewildered human Dom.

Emma wrote: "Erotica? Picture me huffing with hurt pride.
It's a finely crafted, humorous and character driven paranormal romance. Very deep and meaningful stuff.

Warning: Contains gratuitous festive referenc..."

So . . . classy erotica?

I think I'm going off you Jonathan. You do realise I have a whole cupboard of virtual paddles, whips and other bondage gear and I'm not afraid to use it.

Just ask some of the people who are late submitting reviews in my rounds.

Emma wrote: "my best ever one star was this:
"I thought this would have been light hearted and suitable for people of a gentle disposition. I couldn't have been more wrong."

for this book.[bookcover:Tinsel Ti..."

You made me laugh

What do I want from reviews? Sales, of course!

Jonathan wrote: "Nat wrote: "As a Reader: I want reviews to focus on the story and the writing. I like to know WHY it worked/didn't work, more than a hash out of the plot.

If it's self-published I really appreciat..."

As a reviewer, this is really interesting feedback for me. I love it!! I have been following this thread religiously. When I first started reviewing about 10 years ago, my editor told me, offer a bit about the plot, characters, compare it to others in it genre, and offer your solid REAL opinion... whether it be for or against. My first reviews were very passionate and maybe a little trite. I'd like to think I've gotten better. Who knows. Heh. :P

I've given all of 2 one-star review, ever, and they haunt me. They were honest, and fair... but they truly do haunt me. On one of them, the author and I conversed a lot after the fact. She got a new editor and publishing house, rewrote the book entirely, and I had the opportunity to re-review it. That one felt really good. In most cases, I wouldn't revisit, but that was a unique situation.

As a reader, I look for reviews that do tell a little about the plot, because I want to know if it is a book that I would enjoy. Because I review, I read a LOT. Because I am also a ridiculously avid reader for my own joy, I read a LOT. So, I want to know that it is not only a well written book with at least decent to very good grammar/punctuation, but a plot line that interests me. I want a review that does not offer spoilers- ERGH!!- but that does share enough to let me know if I want it or don't for my own tastes.

As a writer, I want honesty. I want to know what was enjoyed, and what wasn't. I want to know if we missed something, grammar wise- so that I can then dig a hole and pull the dirt and gravel in on myself, and then, eventually, come out and fix it. (Can you tell that words really, reeeeally matter to me?) I want my book to get to the people who would love it, not the people who would just kinda maybe sorta eh, ok, I get it, a little. Hence, my need for a little bit of plot-sing in the review.

Just my thoughts.

But then, I think as a reviewer, even when I read for pure pleasure or write even in a journal. I can't help it at this point.

I've really enjoyed this thread, and learned from it.

Thank you. :)

Carolynn

Carolynn wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "Nat wrote: "As a Reader: I want reviews to focus on the story and the writing. I like to know WHY it worked/didn't work, more than a hash out of the plot.

If it's self-published I..."

I ought to clarify- VAGUE plot description.

I think it's annoying for both authors AND readers when a review is vague - whether it's the plot description or the arguments.
Reviews help some readers decide whether they want to read a novel or not and they can help authors improve, right?

Rachel wrote: "I think it's annoying for both authors AND readers when a review is vague - whether it's the plot description or the arguments.
Reviews help some readers decide whether they want to read a novel o..."

Rachel, that makes sense. As a reviewer, I try really hard to walk that fine line between giving enough info and not spoiling it, in regards to the plot. That is what I meant by "vague".

@Carolynn ah, okay. Yes, that seems difficult. I get it now

Emma wrote: "I think I'm going off you Jonathan. You do realise I have a whole cupboard of virtual paddles, whips and other bondage gear and I'm not afraid to use it.

Just ask some of the people who are late s..."

Is this a threat or an offer?

Carolynn wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "Nat wrote: "As a Reader: I want reviews to focus on the story and the writing. I like to know WHY it worked/didn't work, more than a hash out of the plot.

If it's self-published I..."

Thank you. I enjoyed reading your post.

Well it's possible (likely, in fact) that I'm different from most people. I'd prefer not to hear anything about the plot, usually, except enough to know what genre the book is in.

Maybe it's because I can be pretty open minded as far as where the plot goes. I'm open to the vision of the author. I just want that vision to be skillfully executed.

Jonathan wrote: "Emma wrote: "I think I'm going off you Jonathan. You do realise I have a whole cupboard of virtual paddles, whips and other bondage gear and I'm not afraid to use it.

Jonathan wrote; "is that a threat or an offer?"

Depends on what group you're in. If you're in a clean its a threat, if you're in an 18+.....

Emma wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "Emma wrote: "I think I'm going off you Jonathan. You do realise I have a whole cupboard of virtual paddles, whips and other bondage gear and I'm not afraid to use it.

Jonathan wro..."

I'd whip round there quick, Emma.

My favourite review (for my novella Dog!) read: "Did not like it for the beginning. There was a plot in there somewhere between the vulgarity and the description of what the the main character does to himself. I am not a prude, but I think the author went a little bit over board on the vulgarity. What a waste of money." I reposted the review with the sentence "To find out what the main character was doing to himself, buy Dog! - still only 99c/99p for Kindle." I got a bit of a sales boost.

I do think the book's blurb should have tipped them off that there was a certain amount of filth within. That said, the reviewer was entitled to their opinion and correct to post it if they wished. Also, the fact that it was clearly genuine was helpful; if people see lots of good reviews and nothing else, they're not going to find them very credible. It's also good to have reviews from people who did like the book but had the odd reservation, as again, these are clearly genuine.

Now that's an idea....

Carolynn wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "Nat wrote: "As a Reader: I want reviews to focus on the story and the writing. I like to know WHY it worked/didn't work, more than a hash out of the plot.

If it's self-published I..."

Thank you Carolynn for your clear explanations. Really helps us from every perspective. Regards, T. R.

Mike wrote: "Emma wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "Emma wrote: "I think I'm going off you Jonathan. You do realise I have a whole cupboard of virtual paddles, whips and other bondage gear and I'm not afraid to use it.
..."

Dear Mike, Totally agree. An honest review is worth its weight for both author and readers. Regards, T. R.

Emma wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "Emma wrote: "I think I'm going off you Jonathan. You do realise I have a whole cupboard of virtual paddles, whips and other bondage gear and I'm not afraid to use it.

Jonathan wro..."

Haha! Perfect!

Jonathan wrote: "Totally. I get irritated when I find that I'm reading a synopsis of the plot. I don't want to hear the plot! I just want to hear if it was great or not and why.."

double totally agree!

My expectations of a review as a reader pretty much follow the thread in this group on guidelines for writing reviews. in particular, i want to know:

Originality
How original is the world in comparison to other stories in its genre? Does it subvert or conform to the genre's tropes?
Writing
Was the quality really poor or exceptional?
Characterization
Were the characters flat or full?
Story
Was the plot complex? Were there too many plot holes?
Personal Notes
The reviewers take and pet peeves.

Currently, as an unpublished but aspiring author, my viewpoint of what i'd like to see in reviews of my future work would be the unexpurgated raw opinions of the reviewers, even if it's just one sentence that says it was a piece of crap. Once the work has been submitted to the audience, then although the originally published work (and subsequent author editions (depending on copyright)) is canon, all of the surrounding community-generated content is communally owned by the work's audience (including the artist herself).

Alex G wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "Totally. I get irritated when I find that I'm reading a synopsis of the plot. I don't want to hear the plot! I just want to hear if it was great or not and why.."

double totally a..."

I completely agree with that take- I love it when there is commentary on the characters, especially.

T.R. wrote: "Carolynn wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "Nat wrote: "As a Reader: I want reviews to focus on the story and the writing. I like to know WHY it worked/didn't work, more than a hash out of the plot.

If it's..."

Thank you! Whether we agree or disagree with one another, I have really enjoyed reading the differing points of view. I have learned a lot from this discussion,

Alex G wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "Totally. I get irritated when I find that I'm reading a synopsis of the plot. I don't want to hear the plot! I just want to hear if it was great or not and why.."

double totally a..."

Thank you Alex G for your clear and concise explanation. Provides a good guideline for all reviewers.

Carolynn wrote: "T.R. wrote: "Carolynn wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "Nat wrote: "As a Reader: I want reviews to focus on the story and the writing. I like to know WHY it worked/didn't work, more than a hash out of the p..."

I agree Carolyn. That was one of my reasons for asking the question. We are each unique and have varying view points from which we may all learn.

I was reading some of your comments and thinking about this. Here's what occurred to me. I don't think I care that much about any the normal stuff that people are writing. I certainly don't want to read about the plot, but I find I don't even want to read about the characters. I like surprises, and I want to be introduced to the characters, setting, and plot in the way the author intends.

So what do I look for? It may sound odd, but I think I basically look for two things: A rating, and how much I can trust that rating.

When I say "how much I can trust that rating" I mean that I look for signs that the reviewer is intelligent and shares my view of what makes a good book. My usual way of deciding whether to read a book is to read a smattering of 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5-star reviews. But I'm basically only looking for the intelligence and thoughtfulness of the reviewers. If I think the most intelligent reviewers are at the 1-star mark, I go on that rating. If the most intelligent reviews are at the 3-star mark, I'll go with that rating.

So for me, a review is more like an audition to be my book-recommender (for one book). There are a lot of things I don't want to hear about, and the things I most want to hear about are simply the articulations of WHY the reviewer thought the way he or she did. I judge the reviewers and, by extension, the book by these comments.

That explains why I said I'd kill to have that 1-star review on my book. By my method, it would have said a lot of good about my book.

Jonathan wrote: "I was reading some of your comments and thinking about this. Here's what occurred to me. I don't think I care that much about any the normal stuff that people are writing. I certainly don't want to..."

Very interesting Jonathan. Your is certainly a different take on the subject and worth considering. Thank you for sharing and explaining so well.

R.D. wrote: "As an author, I want reviews to get feedback to better understand my work so I might have a more accurate idea of how to market it and promote it."

How would you like to see that feedback formed?

R.D. wrote: "Carolynn wrote: "R.D. wrote: "As an author, I want reviews to get feedback to better understand my work so I might have a more accurate idea of how to market it and promote it."

How would you like..."

A very realistic approach R.D. I believe most authors would agree. I believe, or at least hope, most potential readers would also agree.

I'd just love to see more reviews, so long as they are honest. :-) So, honesty. :-)

Carolynn wrote: "As a reviewer, this is really interesting feedback for me. I love it!! I have been following this thread religiously. When I first started reviewing about 10 years ago, my editor told me, offer a bit about the plot, characters, compare it to others in it genre, and offer your solid REAL opinion... whether it be for or against. My first reviews were very passionate and maybe a little trite. I'd like to think I've gotten better. Who knows. Heh. :P

Hi Carolynn,

Yeah, maybe it's just me, but I can get an idea of the plot from the blurb or just reading it. If the plot is totally different from what is suggested, then maybe a review of that would be nice, but generally I just skim that part of the review.

I am just wondering what the reviewer thought about it and WHY. The why is important. "I didn't get into this story because the MC was a whiny brat," or "This book didn't work for me because of the terrible grammar," or "This book had three rapes in the first ten pages... not my thing, so I moved on."

This gives me reasons why... and that's what I'm after. If I like whiny brats, or rapes, or what not, then those reviews will possibly tell me I might like this book just as much as it will warn others who don't like those aspects.

Just my humble opinion. :)

Nat wrote: "Carolynn wrote: "As a reviewer, this is really interesting feedback for me. I love it!! I have been following this thread religiously. When I first started reviewing about 10 years ago, my editor t..."

To RD and Nat, Thank you! Both of you- I don't know about everyone else, but I feel as if I've taken a college course on How To Write A Better Review. :) (that is a good thing!) I'm working up a review tonight, and I am keeping your thoughts in mind.

I appreciate you taking the time to thoughtfully answer my questions.

Be well!

I agree with many others here: This is an interesting and informative discussion. Thank you everyone for participating. Look forward to more.

Glad to offer my reviewerly opinion. :) And I'm always interested in others' thoughts on reviews as well. Thanks for sharing everyone!

Nat wrote: "I don't like reviews that are "I hate books about aliens, and this book has aliens in it, so I'm giving it a 1 star.) Those just frustrate me on all quarters...."

This seems to be one significant pitfall to a group like this. Normally, if I didn't like books with aliens, I wouldn't pick up a book titled "A Book About Aliens With Lots of Aliens In It. ALIENZZZ!!!" But if I participate in a review group that assigns me a book to read, then I might be assigned just such a book. In that case, "I don't like books about aliens" may well be a very appropriate review.

I think that's why it's a good idea that this group has some genre-themed groups such as Out Of This World, and In This World, to minimize the chance of being assigned a book you're prejudiced against from the start.

But it's still a problem. A normal reader's experience is to seek out and read a book that you are already inclined to like, and not to finish reading a book that doesn't suit your interests. The compulsion to read a book you wouldn't have selected for yourself, to finish and review it, should be expected to result in a lot of low ratings and negative reviews.

I disagree, with bells on Paul. Prejudice is just that prejudice. It is very possible to put it aside as I hope other readers would do when looking at YOUR book.
I find literary fiction boring to the extreme. But I can still see the merit in it, even if I'd rather be reading something else. It reminds too much of the depressing literary 'greats' I was forced to read at school.
Assess a book against its genre, not your personal tastes because you hope that's what other people will be doing with your book.

Either that, or only participate in the one for one round, and risk your book languishing there for months, if not years, because no one likes 'your' genre.

Emma wrote: "...Assess a book against its genre, not your personal tastes because you hope that's what other people will be doing with your book...."

Well then that is the implicit expectation of reviews in this group. I reckon I could keep that in mind. Though it's worth noting that it's different from normal reviewing. Normally you can't expect people to put aside personal tastes, and of course normal readers don't have to "hope that's what other people will be doing with [their books]."

Yes, but we aren't normal readers.

Agreed Rian.
Normal readers, with no connection to an author, wouldn't be joining a review round with the implicit intention of getting non-reciprocal reviews on a random book they have nothing to do with.
if you are successful in getting 'normal' readers to read and review, dare I suggest that you wouldn't be here, Paul?
Everyone here is in the same boat. I'n not, in any way, suggesting members inflate reviews for poor books, we have our share of one star reviews, some even in my opinion, deserved so, simply that people see beyond genre.
But if I find people low staring simply because of genre, and no other reason, I'll get a little testy.

The lowest star rating I've given was for a book in one of my favourite genres. My highest is for a book in one of my least liked genres.

I'm a wide reader, but quality within the genre framework should mean more than the genre itself.

If you aren't willing to judge a book in that fashion, then you can't expect the same respect from others.

If it was down to preference, then only the most popular genres would be accommodated.
That would be a shame, because one of the purposes behind these reviews is to boost books that don't have a ready-mades fanbase, or which blur boundaries.

I try to go over what annoyed me, and what was interesting for the following categories:
Pace
Story
Characters
I only mention grammar when there are obvious mistakes / bizarre structure that take me out of the story.

I think it's inevitable there will be bias (for example, some people are confused by lots of characters, others like it that way. Some people like classic, mustache-twirling villains and clear-cut good vs evil, others don't, and so on), but when the bias is explained in the review, it takes some of the sting out because at least, those who read the review will be able to know if they can relate to that criticism or not.