The Filipino Group discussion

Salutations and top o' the morning everyone! I'm Bennard and I will be your online moderator for the month of March.

We are going to discuss George Saunder's anticipated and already well-received foray into the art of the novel having exclusively dabbled in the art of the short story for his previous books.

The book is Lincoln in the Bardo and, as a short description, let me take the description from the book's dust jacket:

On February 22, 1862, two days after his death, Willie Lincoln was laid to rest in a marble crypt in a Georgetown cemetery. That very night, shattered by grief, Abraham Lincoln arrives at the cemetery under cover of darkness and visits the crypt, alone, to spend time with his son’s body.

Set over the course of that one night and populated by ghosts of the recently passed and the long dead, Lincoln in the Bardo is a thrilling exploration of death, grief, the powers of good and evil, a novel - in its form and voice - completely unlike anything you have read before. It is also, in the end, an exploration of the deeper meaning and possibilities of life, written as only George Saunders can: with humor, pathos, and grace.

Where to find copies

For those who are looking for copies of the book, there are several copies that Penguin Random House, in their benevolence, has bequeathed the group. They are for sharing, guys! So may I ask those who have Lincoln in the Bardo ARCs in their possession to make a comment on the thread for tracking purposes. Also there are, to my knowledge, several signed 1st editions that have been given to lucky members of TFG. Those are not for sharing but I am sure the owners would be happy to lend them to you if you ask nicely.

If you're out of luck acquiring said copies of the book from members of TFG, you can buy (hopefully) copies from your favorite local bookstores or you can buy e-book copies from Amazon or you can acquire the audio book from Audible.

Reading Plan

Of course you can read the book at your own leisurely pace but we have been doing reading plans for as long as I can remember and there's no reason to end the practice now. Here is what I propose:

Week 1 (March 1 - 6): Chapter I - Chapter XXVII
Week 2 (March 7 - 13): Chapter XXVIII - Chapter LV
Week 3 (March 14 - 20): Chapter LVI - Chapter LXXVII
Week 4 (March 21 - 25): Chapter LXXVIII - End

I hope you all enjoy reading Lincoln in the Bardo. I know I did!

Week 1

To start off our reading of Lincoln in the Bardo, here's a video from NYT VR. It is a short virtual reality film of one part of Lincoln in the Bardo. It is a bit spoiler-y so if you're sensitive to spoilers, I recommend that you give this one a pass.

https://www.nytimes.com/video/magazin...

For this week, I have a couple of questions. I may or may not be giving points for the questions and there may or may not be a prize to the one with the highest points by the end. Anyway, the questions:

1. Those who reside in the Bardo manifest themselves with physical deformities that corresponds to their biggest anxieties when they were alive (e.g Vollman, who died before he was about to make love to his wife, has a huge erection and Bevins, who died filled with a desire to indulge his senses, has multiple copies of his sensory organs). If you were to enter the Bardo, how would you manifest yourself?

2. Saunders, over the course of the novel, engages in a sort of historical exposition through the words of supposed witnesses and historical documents (some real, some imagined by the author) that fleshes out not only Lincoln but also the milieu in which he lived. Provide one interesting fact about Lincoln, his family, or Civil War-era America.

Hello! I'll give my ARC to Meliza. :)

Week 1
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1. I would probably manifest myself by singing everything that I have to say, haha. It's not really an anxiety of mine, but it's one of the things that I feel frustrated about. I love music, I love to sing but apparently, music and singing don't love me back. So there.

2. Since we're on the subject of death:
Grave robbers attempted to steal Lincoln’s corpse -
In 1876 a gang of Chicago counterfeiters attempted to snatch Lincoln’s body from his tomb, which was protected by just a single padlock, in Oak Ridge Cemetery in Springfield, Illinois. Their scheme was to hold the corpse for a ransom of $200,000 and obtain the release of the gang’s best counterfeiter from prison. Secret Service agents, however, infiltrated the gang and were lying in wait to disrupt the operation. Lincoln’s body was quickly moved to an unmarked grave and eventually encased in a steel cage and entombed under 10 feet of concrete. (Source: http://www.history.com/news/10-things... )
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Week 2:

1. Now that we have acquainted ourselves with the novel's unique style, what did you think of it? Did it enhance or did it diminish your reading experience?

2. In Buddhism, the term "bardo" refers to the transitional state between one's death and one's reincarnation. What do you think is the meaning of the word "bardo" in the context of Saunders' novel and what is it's thematic significance vis-à-vis the novel?

3. What unites all the ghosts in the novel? Why do you think have they remained in this transitional state instead of moving on? Do you think they are aware of their state of being or do they really believe that they are just sick and recuperating?

Week 2:

(view spoiler)[
1. It was very readable! As in it's so easy to read. At first, it was confusing: I didn't know who these people were. Eventually I got the hang of it. I had fun reading it.

2. (I just remembered that it's you who admitted that you're that book club member who finds symbolism in everything, haha!) For me, "bardo" is exactly that, some kind of a limbo where a person or soul who should have passed on can't, or won't, for whatever reason. The "Lincoln" being referred to in the title is both father and son, who find themselves in a limbo after the son's death: the father, who is obviously dazed and shocked and couldn't accept the fact that his favorite son had died, and the son, who didn't know what happened at all.

3. I think all the ghosts are not aware that they're dead. They think they're there because they're sick, that they'll eventually get out of there. The Reverend is instrumental on this score.
(hide spoiler)]

I have Ms. Ronnie’s ARC. Maraming Salamat po! :)

Week 1
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1. I would probably be the one with the super animated, like totally over-the-top a la Jim Carrey or worse, facial expressions. I’ve been told I only have a few, or one. Hmpf. But I beg to differ, so not true.

2. Edwin Booth, the brother of John Wilkes Booth saved Abraham Lincoln's son, Robert, from serious injury or even death. The incident occurred on a train platform in Jersey City, New Jersey. The exact date of the incident is uncertain, but it is believed to have taken place in late 1864 or early 1865. Booth did not know the identity of the man whose life he had saved until some months later, when he received a letter from a friend, Colonel Adam Badeau, who was an officer on the staff of General Ulysses S. Grant. Badeau had heard the story from Robert Lincoln, who had since joined the Union Army and was also serving on Grant's staff. In the letter, Badeau gave his compliments to Booth for the heroic deed. The fact that he had saved the life of Abraham Lincoln's son was said to have been of some comfort to Edwin Booth following his brother's assassination of the president. Source: http://blog.constitutioncenter.org/20... (hide spoiler)]

Week 2
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1. The first couple of chapters confused me but as I began getting used to it, it was a fun read. The “facts” are interesting, makes me want to go and double-check if everything’s true, but no ang dami eh!

2. Bardo is probably the suspended state, the in-between state, be it for the living or the dead. We know most characters are in “bardo”; the dead ones between the previous place and passing on, and Lincoln between his grieving for his favorite son’s death and his responsibility as President with the Civil War going on.

3. I already got to the part where it was mentioned that only one of them knows they’re all dead and the way they were referring to their coffins as sick boxes and sick homes displays that point. I think what unites the ghosts is their shared desire to leave the dullness of their current state. (hide spoiler)]

That video is so cool! Even my youngest daughter was so impressed!

Week 1

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1. Super hard question... maybe a supermodel body.

2. Did you know that in Abraham Lincoln grew a beard because of 11-year old Grace Bedell?

In 1860, having recently seen a picture of him without facial hair, an 11-year-old girl named Grace Bedell decided to write to Republican candidate Abraham Lincoln with a suggestion: to grow a beard. Her letter, and Lincoln's reply, can be seen here
(hide spoiler)]

Week 3:

1. At this point, we have discovered that the Bardo is a harsher place for a child than for a fully-grown person. Is there something special in a child that forces him/her to move on as soon as possible and that he/she will be punished if he/she does not?

2. We often encounter slavery in America as historical narratives devoid of emotion and burdened by cold facts. In the novel, Saunders tries to humanize them and show his readers the abject horror of slavery not only as an abstract concept but also the effect of slavery on the minutiae of everyday life. Was Saunders successful in this score? Why or why not?

3. In the novel, Lincoln not only grapples with the loss of his son but also the massive loss of human life in the ongoing Civil War. Would you have given your support to President Lincoln for the cause of emancipating all slaves even if it means that there is the possibility of people you love dying from the attempt?

Week 3:

(view spoiler)[
1. Since the "Bardo" is a concept in Buddhism, I think the reason why children must move on immediately (unlike the grownups) has something to do with reincarnation. Because children are innocent and, like their adult counterparts, devoid of awareness of what had happened to them (they think they're just sick, right?) their "bardo" are the easiest, if I may use the term, or the perfect candidates for reincarnation. Not to say that the adults' bardos are not - I guess it's just that, with children, because of the purity and innocence of their youth, their transition/reincarnation into the next life is more expedient.

2. Yes. The mute black girl (I forget the name) who was raped is the perfect example.

3. I won't be a hypocrite: I will hesitate. When I think of my family having to suffer (short of saying they might be sacrificed) in exchange for the emancipation of slaves, I don't know. Sure it sounds selfish but this is my family we're talking about. So... I don't know. I would probably support Lincoln's cause but I'll try to do it in a way that would not compromise my family's safety or security.
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Week 1

(view spoiler)[
1. I wouldn't really know since the reasoning behind the strange physical manifestations is the mental state you are in before you die. It is impossible to give predict what I form I will take because I don't know yet how or when I will die. If I were to die now, nope, not going to think about it. I don't wanna jinx it.

2. Abraham Lincoln was a wrestler. He is also a very religious man but doesn't consider himself to be part of any organized church. A man who engaged in combat sports, reads the bible and an actual champion of human rights.

sources:
http://www.wwe.com/classics/abraham-l...
http://hollowverse.com/abraham-lincoln/

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Week 2

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1. I had difficulty at first getting used to the style of the narrative, but once I was familiar with it I had a fun and fulfilling experience reading it. As I posted somewhere, it transcended the experience that I encounter with usual narratives. It became so much more than just a fleeting story.

2-3. It is some type of limbo where the spirit of the people who are still unaware they are dead resides.


(view spoiler)[May ritemed ba mga questions na to? (hide spoiler)]
(hide spoiler)]

Week 1:
(view spoiler)[
1. I'll probably manifest myself in Bardo as someone with a very beautiful body, particularly with a statuesque torso. My scoliosis has, and will always, cause me anxiety. Every night, I still wish that I had a straight back.

2. Quite related to my answer for the previous question, Lincoln is enshrined in the Wrestling Hall of Fame. The Great Emancipator wasn’t quite WWE material, but thanks to his long limbs he was an accomplished wrestler as a young man. I know that this is a repeat trivia. :D
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Week 2:
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1. It was jarring at first but once you get the rhythm, it turned out to be a unique reading experience. I believe I haven't read anything quite like it. I love it!

2. I thought Bardo is the purgatory. It is significant in the novel because well, it is the main setting. Thematically, Saunders used Bardo and the characters residing in it as a means to explore themes relating to fate, existence, loss, hope, and regret.

3. I think they are aware that they are dead but they are in a state of chronically suspended denial. What unites them is their desire to continue whatever unfinished stuff they have had in that other place (except the reverend everly thomas).
(hide spoiler)]

Week 3:
(view spoiler)[
1. Probably because children have not fully lived their lives yet so there's less burden for them to tow in Bardo. Also, I just assumed it's a plot point so that there'll be more conflict.

2. Not really but I appreciate the effort. I will insist that only the black can truly show the abject horror of slavery.

3. If I were a slave, yes. If people I truly care about are slaves, yes. If no to either case, no.
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Week 3

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1. The urgency to move on from the bardo for the children is rooted on their innocence and lack of worldy understanding. However, I do not understand why they are punished if they resist the call. Does it have anything to do with them refusing their youth? I need to think about it more.

2. Actually, no. This took a backseat to the other themes he was exploring. I thought he could've shown more if he really wanted to explore the slavery narrative. It was there. The horrors are present in the story, but I thought the death theme overshadowed it. It became more like an argument for the common idea that death is the great equalizer.

3. I would like to think that I will definitely support the cause, but if it means it will endanger my family, I will hesitate. If it's only me we're talking about, I would not hesitate. There's no greater death than dying for what you believe in.

(hide spoiler)]

Week 4:

1. Why do you think are the souls of the children, perceived to be innocent and pure, stuck in the Bardo held prisoner by the souls of some of the most heinous beings to have ever lived? Is Saunders making a point in this juxtaposition?

2. "Did I ask to be born licentious, greedy, slightly misanthropic, and to find Elmer so irritating? I did not. But there I was." - Is there merit to this reasoning by one of the souls that constitute the "tendrils"? Why or why not?

3. Who is your favorite ghost and why?