Cyberpunk discussion

Hey guys!

I'm new to the group. Not sure if this has already been discussed ad nauseum, but I've heard a lot of talk from self-professed post-cyberpunks saying cyberpunk, as a genre, is largely outmoded and, for all intensive purposes, dead.

Does anyone know what the litmus test would be for genre death, and whether or not there are veritable recent titles whose existence means the continuation and persistence of cyberpunk?

I just got on reddit for the first time to pose this question to /r/cyberpunk, but was curtly shunned.

If anyone can recommend some titles, I'd love to take a look...

Bye!!

I'll have to mention this article if for no other reasons than 1) it name drops my cyberpunk series and 2) answers your question pretty well. It's from Scannerdrome.

I don't think cybepunk is dead at all but I'm biased since my The Complete Bridge Chronicles, Books 1-4 is all cyberpunk and has been called "old school" cyberpunk at that. Perhaps the metal-head shiny chrome type of cyberpunk has been marginalized for more nanotech/posthumanist/singularity based.

I would say it is alive and well. I have the first book in the Bridge Chronicles on my Kindle and have been excited to read it (as soon as I have time) for awhile now. Hearing it's 'old school' cyberpunk just gets me more excited.

If you want more proof that Cyberpunk is alive, I suggest checking out Sindome the largest, most exceptional, free, text-based cyberpunk RPG on the internet. It's been around about 18 years and is a bastion of cyberpunk on the Net.

Thanks Brendan!

I also wait with bated breath for Cyberpunk 2077.

I have a stack of books I'm going through, with some of your recommendations of course, proving my question to be awfully silly.

Recently finished Cypulchre, which was pretty awesome.

CJ suggested there were follow-ups to Gravity Fails, so I have those to look forward to as well.

Thanks for posting, Kaitlin. I'm new the the group myself and just catching up now. Lots to read up on!

I don't think Cyberpunk is dead either, perhaps just simmering on the back burner.

I do think it is awaiting a revitalization perhaps, or modernization to make it more accessible. But perhaps, like the protagonists that so frequent the novels, it is destined to live on the margins?

Not sure. I've got a long list to read myself, as I'm just starting to get more into the genre.

But it does seem hard to find great books in the genre that are not just Cyberpunk, but fun to read - to the point where I'd recommend them to anyone.

I have observed a number of board / card games coming out recently - one for Shadowrun (Crossfire) and, of course Android: Netrunner plus Infiltration by FFG. And of course there was Shadowrun Returns and, more recently, Transistor, so I think - gaming wise - we are seeing a revitalization and the market is ripe for more!

Gary, just read the article - spot on! Glad to see you (and others) are still trying to push things forward.

Working on a project to do so myself but can't share anything yet. Need to see if this has any legs to care it out into the light of day from the digital ether... :)

Gary wrote: "I'll have to mention this article if for no other reasons than 1) it name drops my cyberpunk series and 2) answers your question pretty well. It's from Scannerdrome.

I don't think cybepunk is dead..."

Your Cyberpunk is excellent proof that the genre is alive and well. I have all your books with the last 2 waiting in TBR.

This one is very good also: GIDEON'S FALL by ERIC GABRIELSEN

What's it called!! :D

Philip wrote: "Gary, just read the article - spot on! Glad to see you (and others) are still trying to push things forward.

Working on a project to do so myself but can't share anything yet. Need to see if thi..."

I can't say yet, but I'll post something once I get a little further... :)

From a movement perspective, the boom might be dead. But the community is still very much alive.

In a genre perspective, psst just write whatever type of science fiction you feel like writing.

Hear Hear, Sarah!

I saw a quote recently on writing that went something like this:

If you try and write a novel that everyone wants to read, you're not likely to get a very big audience. If you try and write a novel that you would want to read, you're most likely to find a wider following.

It speaks to not trying to pander to certain groups, and instead going with what you are passionate about regardless of classification.

I suppose there is something to be said for knowing your audience, but it's not everything.

I don't think so, but this group's moderator may be. No activity since 2008!

I started to consider the possibility that when Bruce Sterling (allegedly) declared cyberpunk dead, he didn't mean what we think he meant.

Let me explain my thoughts, and I'm going to make an argument from analogy. Remember back in the late 80's into the early the early 90's when a new genre of music was noticed that became known as "alternative"? What was initially known as "the Seattle Sound", comprising bands like Pearl Jam and Nirvana, soon began to dominate popular music and within a few years what was initially called "alternative" was now mainstream, which begged the question, alternative to what?

And so it was with cyberpunk. When cyberpunk first came into being heralded by the publication of William Gibson's "Fragments of a Hologram Rose" in 1977, and followed by many other similar works by several writers, it represented a radical departure from mainstream SF. Gibson's "The Gernsback Continuum" was an allegorical good-bye to the utopian future predictions that started in the 1930's and continued into the SF of the 70's, which still focused around adventurous space travel for the most part. At that time, cyberpunk was to SF what alternative was to mainstream music, and authors within the genre saw themselves as the harbingers of the new SF paradigm. This is why Sterling referred to cyberpunk as "the movement".

Fast forward to 1985. Neuromancer had been released the year before, and was a literary and cultural phenomena capuring all three of the main awards in SF: the Hugo, Nebula, and PKD awards - this was the first time any book had won all three of the top awards in SF. Cyberpunk had not only arrived, it was now mainstream. So, cyberpunk as a distinct literary genre could be be said to be completely integrated into mainstream SF, no?

I believe this is what Bruce Sterling (and others) meant when they declared cyberpunk dead - they weren't declaring it dead as a genre, they were declaring it dead as a distinct sub-genre separate from mainstream SF. The influence of cyberpunk on SF today seems obvious. Cyberpunk isn't dead as a genre, it never was. Cyberpunk is SF/SF is cyberpunk.

"I hereby declare the revolution over. Long live the provisional government." - Bruce Sterling as Vincent Omniveritas, The Last Cheap Truth (1986)

Excellent post!!!

Bryan wrote: "I started to consider the possibility that when Bruce Sterling (allegedly) declared cyberpunk dead, he didn't mean what we think he meant.

Let me explain my thoughts, and I'm going to make an argu..."

Bryan - Excellent, succinct and in my opinion, accurate. Thank you.

Here here!
Patrick wrote: "Bryan wrote: "I started to consider the possibility that when Bruce Sterling (allegedly) declared cyberpunk dead, he didn't mean what we think he meant.

Let me explain my thoughts, and I'm going t..."

Indeed. Fascinating post, Bryan!

To Shane's point, my hope is that there are enough writers and readers out there to see the continued evolution of cyberpunk for all types of fans! I'm in the camp of wanting to make it more accessible and mainstream, but there will always be a place for the kind that is more cerebral and pushes the envelope of science fiction and thought as well.

Maybe we'll figure out how to do both together...

Definitely not dead - check out this new anthology Altered States: a cyberpunk / scifi anthology

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OECR7WO/r...

Only if we insist on defining it by stupidly constricting terms.

Some say anything made after the '80s can't be cyberpunk. Some say it must revolve around computers or a computer world to be cyberpunk. Others say it must have a cynical view of technology.

I say BS.

I say if it has a fair balance of "cyber" and "punk" in the story, it's cyberpunk. It's a judgment call, but, there is no reason to say that media produced nowadays can't count as cyberpunk.

Shane wrote: "My main worry for the genre is that it might become watered down, and become permanently young adult.

I don't want the writers of cyberpunk/post cyberpunk to feel the need to cater to the Artemis ..."

That may not be just a cyberpunk problem. I recall reading an article some years ago about how YA's explosion in popularity is largely due to it being one of the last genres left where the authors just write something fun, and don't worry about trying to impress or win awards or prove how "adult" they are. With sci-fi and fantasy especially, I can see a lot of adult authors chickening out of using their imaginations to write a good story, instead opting to write something "adult" (i.e. boring).

God willing this is just a trend.

Paul wrote: "Definitely not dead - check out this new anthology Altered States: a cyberpunk / scifi anthology

http://www.amazo..."

Paul wrote: "Definitely not dead - check out this new anthology Altered States: a cyberpunk / scifi anthology

http://www.amazo..."

I initially read that as "altered skates" and pictured a cyberpunk roller-blader.

Liz wrote: "I say if it has a fair balance of "cyber" and "punk" in the story, it's cyberpunk. It's a judgment call, but, there is no reason to say that media produced nowadays can't count as cyberpunk."

Well said. For some people it can only be Cyberpunk if everything is neon and rain-slicked streets.

Mr. Robot for example is definitely Cyberpunk, but I bet most people don't identify it as that.

Craig wrote: "Liz wrote: "I say if it has a fair balance of "cyber" and "punk" in the story, it's cyberpunk. It's a judgment call, but, there is no reason to say that media produced nowadays can't count as cyber..."

Same with Person of Interest. Set in our time but definitely cyberpunk. Shame it ended.

I'll have to check that out.

Cheers for the heads up Andrew :)

Craig wrote: "I'll have to check that out.

Cheers for the heads up Andrew :)"

You're welcome! It definitely becomes more obvious as the seasons go on. What starts as a show about surveillance, privacy and security quickly becomes about a super AI gaining sentience and learning morality. There's also a shadowy corporation trying to take over the world. I won't say more than that. :)