Bright Young Things discussion
This topic is about
The Go-Between
Fiction (1900-1945)
>
The Go-Between by L.P. Hartley
date
newest »
newest »
I read 'The Go-Between' last year and loved it. Here's my spoiler free review...Thanks to GoodReads friend CQM for his review of 'The Go-Between' which was a big part of what inspired me to read it.
L.P. Hartley’s 'The Go-Between' takes place in the long hot Summer of 1900, and tells of how young Leo, staying with Marcus, a school friend, at the aristocratic Brandham Hall, begins to act as a messenger between Ted, the farmer, and Marian, Marcus's beautiful young sister. Leo narrates the events in 1952, as a mature adult looking back.
'The Go-Between' was an immediate success when it was published in 1953. My only awareness of it, was from the 1970 film adaptation which I have still not got round to watching. I will watch it this month and add a few comments on the film. It's always interesting to compare and contrast the book with any cinematic or TV adaptations.
My sense is that 'The Go-Between' has fallen out of favour since the film, and may well be destined to languish in relative obscurity in a few decades time. This would be a great shame. It’s a masterpiece.
There is so much to enjoy here: the glorious writing; the evocation of the seemingly perfect Summer; the realistic insights into the mind of a 13 year old boy struggling to make sense of the adult world; the boundaries of Edwardian society; the Norfolk landscape; and the dangerous, illicit love affair at the book’s core.
However, beyond the surface pleasures, lurk darker themes. 'The Go-Between' also describes a world of conflict: Edwardian class tensions; the Boer War (and the wars that were to follow and which claim other victims); the supernatural vs the material; young, vibrant, magical Leo vs his older, haunted self; Leo’s non-aristocratic background which is at odds with the gilded world of his hosts; Leo’s conflicted feelings for Ted; arranged marriage vs passion; etc. There is so much to ponder in this book.
I was relieved not to have read the excellent introduction (in the Penguin Modern Classics edition) until after I had finished the book, as this reveals yet more insights about the depth of meaning within this wonderful book.
'The Go-Between' is a tense, rich, evocative, and multi-layered novel. Quite brilliant. I look forward to discovering what others make of it.
5/5
Mod
I've just started...will report back later
Thanks Ally, I look forward to reading your thoughts.Ally wrote: "Wonderful - thanks for setting this up NigeyB."
My pleasure - I couldn't wait to get started!
Thanks, Nigeyb. I thought of setting up a thread, but I am wary of treading on toes in groups I don't moderate on...
This is one of those books I had meant to read for years, never got around to and was immediately hooked when I started. This was everything that I want in a novel, to be honest. It had wonderful characters, an evocative setting and an interesting narrator. I really liked the beginning to, with the bullying at Leo's school and the wonderful way the problem was solved, almost magically, for him.
Susan wrote: "Thanks, Nigeyb. I thought of setting up a thread, but I am wary of treading on toes in groups I don't moderate on..."You're a wise and considerate person Susan.
Susan wrote: "This was everything that I want in a novel, to be honest. It had wonderful characters, an evocative setting and an interesting narrator. "
I couldn't agree more.
I was surprised when I worked out that Marcus and his family were leasing Brandham Hall, seat of the Winlove family, and wondered why Hugh Trimingham was staying there. Was it by chance? Did he know the family before they moved in? Did the Maudsley's like the house so much that this was why they encouraged the match between Marian and Hugh?Also, although I have absolutely NO interest in sport at all, I did think the cricket match was well written and I actually found myself quite excited - whereas a similar scene in a Lord Peter Wimsey novel (and I adore Wimsey) didn't interest me nearly as much.
We see the situation as Leo does, so what has already gone on at Brandham Hall before he arrives is unclear. I don't think the Maudsleys needed to know Hugh to rent his house, that could have been done through an agent, but from the dinner table conversation about him I gathered that they did already know him fairly well, because they don't use his title and they have invited him to stay but know that he 'always' attends Goodwood, plus Marcus mentions the attempt to set him up with Marion quite early on.The cricket match was very well written and not just for the match itself. There were a lot of finely nuanced interactions between the players. Hugh clearly knows all the village team and most of the servants on the Hall team and has a way of talking to them which puts them at their ease, while the Maudsleys and Leo don't talk to them very much and one (Denys?) says something like 'Well, that's the plebs dealt with for a year'. Other examples are the two villagers who talk to each other across Leo, not to him, and some of the servants playing for the Hall team go off to talk to the opposition instead of staying with their own team. (In rural areas many of the servants would have been recruited locally, so they and the villagers probably knew each other.)
Yes, I totally agree, Val - there were lots of great interactions after the match. I think the author really captured the whole era really well. Has anyone read anything else by L.P. Hartley? Obviously, this is his most famous novel.
l've started reading The Go-Between. I've had a copy for years, waiting near the top of the to-read-list, which still has a 40c price on the back, not in bad condition except for several loose pages. A Penguin edition with Julie Christie on the cover. I'll get several chapters further on before rejoining this thread.
The first word 'Prologue', I instantly thought of Frankie Howerd delivering his prologue in Up Pompeii!. Does anybody remember that?
Yes, vaguely, although I didn't think of the connection, Greg :)
I haven't read any other novels by him, just this one twice or possibly thrice and some of his short stories in anthologies, which are not at all like this. He does capture the era well. I assumed he must have had some experience of it, but when looking him up on Wikipedia I found he would have been four years old in the Summer of 1900.
I suspect he would have been young enough to have heard stories from parents and grand parents, etc. to have given him that kind of immediate authenticity, Val. Just out of interest, what did everyone think of Leo being used as the go-between by Ted and Marian? If I recall correctly, it is Ted who approaches him first...
Nigeyb wrote: "'The Go-Between' was an immediate success when it was published in 1953. My only awareness of it, was from the 1970 film adaptation which I have still not got round to watching. I will watch it this month and add a few comments on the film. It's always interesting to compare and contrast the book with any cinematic or TV adaptations."I've just watched the first hour of the 1970 film. It really hasn't dated well at all. Very stilted and, dare I say it, quite slow and boring. Perhaps it will improve but I am not confident. Definitely one that works much better as a novel than a film. There is a more recent BBC adaptation which I might seek out.
I haven't seen a film version, but I think it would have to be black and white, rather than in colour :) It just has that feel about it, doesn't it?
Yes, sepia would definitely work ;)
I saw an old copy of the book in Oxfam last week with what must be a still from the film - Julie Christie looking wonderfully languorous and beautiful?
That's the one Roman Clodia. The film has a great pedigree - Julie Christie and Alan Bates in the leading roles, a script by Harold Pinter and Joseph Losey directing. Perhaps it will improve. I'll let you know.
I am enjoying The Go-Between. At chapter 7 so far. I'm curious about 'The men walked about to eat their Porridge. This, Marcus told me, was 'de rigueur'; only cads ate their porridge sitting down.'
The past is a foreign country, indeed. Was this an accurate custom of the Landed Gentry, or a fictional eccentricity?
I have never come across this before, Greg. I did turn to the internet, but without enlightenment! There were, obviously, far more rules governing what both men, and women, could do, but wandering around eating porridge is a strange one indeed :)
https://www.jordanscereals.co.uk/news...http://www.scottish-at-heart.com/porr...
mention the tradition.
PS There is nothing to suggest why the landed gentry would adopt the tradition, even less so for the nouveau riche Maudesleys.
So is this more a Scottish tradition, Val? My father was Irish and he ate his porridge with salt, rather than sugar, which I thought was horrible!
As porridge was often made in large batches it was made with water and salt. It would solidify and be eaten in cold slices over several days. Mostly eaten by farmers and workers, porridge would be eaten standing up whilst doing other jobs and also to aid digestion.
Cold, solid slices of porridge - mmmm
Back to the book, and thanks to Ally for another great nomination, I have just found a long list of questions for students which I post below as they may stimulate some more debate and discussion about the book....The Prologue
Note dates and details of now/then.
What are your impressions of the diary? Note the book’s physical details: Zodiac illustrations; schoolboy language. What is the diary’s power?
What were Leo’s dreams and ambitions as a schoolboy?
List the most important features of Leo’s 12 year old character, as shown here.
What do you learn of the 64 year old Leo? How has he lived his life?
Summarise the debate between the old and the young Leo, in your own words.
Chapter 1
Desrcibe Leo’s parents: their class values; personalities and behaviour.
List Leo’s magic spells. How many are successful?
Describe the preparations Leo and his mother make for his visit to Brandham Hall.
Chapter 2
Give brief details of the Hall. Do you feel there is any symbolic importance in Leo’s actual view of it?
Describe the five members of the Maudsley family. (You might like to have a page for each and gradually build up their character profies as you read the novel.)
Comment on the belladonna.
Chapter 3
Days, dates, temperatures.
Details of Leo’s clothes – what is wrong with them?
What do you notice about Marion’s offer to take Leo to Norwich? What does Leo not see about her offer and behaviour?
Chapter 4
Why is Norwich ‘a turning point’?
Find the ‘flight’ imagery: why is this so relevant?
Why is the green of Leo’s suit significant?
Why is the heat so important to Leo?
How does Leo connect Brandham Hall with the zodiac?
What are Leo’s first impressions of Trimingham? Are these sustained?
What are your impressions of (1) Ted? (2) Denys? Select quotations to support your views.
Is there some sense of Leo’s growing awareness of his body/maturity/masculinity?
Describe Ted’s and Marion’s reactions to each other. Why are these significent?
Chapter 5
What are Leo’s first impressions of Trimingham?
Comment on the way that Marcus and Leo talk to each other.
Chapter 6
What does Leo learn about the Trimingham family from the memorial tablets in the church?
Summarise Leo’s inner debate about right and wrong. Describe the nature of Leo’s moral values.
What are Leo’s initial impressions of Trimingham? How do yours differ?
Comment on Leo’s observation that Trimingham is ‘a guest in his own house’.
Chapter 7
How does the heat affect Leo, physically and mentally?
What are Leo’s impressions of Ted at the farm?
What is the purpose of Ted’s chatecism.
Describe Leo’s reaction to Ted’s suggestion that he become a messenger.
Describe Marian’s behaviour on Leo’s return to the Hall.
Chapter 8
What does Leo hear at the picnic?
What is the nature of the clash between Marian and her mother?
What does the coachman reveal about Ted?
What does Leo not describe in his letter to his mother?
What is the significance of the rising mercury?
Chapter 9
Summarise the events from Tuesday 17th to Friday 20th.
What is the symbolic significance of the rising temperature?
List the possible messages Leo invents.
Why does Leo not want to know the real content of the messages?
What problems does Marcus’s recovery pose for Leo?
Contrast the two boys’ view of ‘spooning’.
Trace Leo’s internal debate about the rights and wrongs of reading the unsealed letter.
Chapter 10
How does Leo react to the idea that Marian and Ted are in love?
How does Ted put pressure on Leo to continue acting as messenger? Is it fair pressure?
What does Ted tell Leo about ‘spooning’?
What bargain is agreed between Ted and Leo?
Chapter 11
Describe Leo’s feelings of loyalty to the Hall’s team.
What evidence of strain is there between Marian and Trimingham?
What are the differences between the two teams?
Describe the Hall’s innings. How does Leo feel?
Chapter 12
What happens in the village’s innings?
How does MArian react to the game?
What happens to Leo’s loyalties and why?
Describe Leo’s catch. What is is symbolic significance?
Chapter 13
Describe Leo’s state of mind and feelings at supper.
What is the impact od Ted’s singing?
What is the impact and significance of Leo’s concert performance?
What do Leo and Marcus talk about on their way home?
Chapter 14
Why does Leo think that his role as postman is now over?
In what ways does Leo think that he has ‘beaten’ Ted?
What is the significance of the Fifth Viscount?
What do you observe of Trimingham’s values and beliefs when he tells Leo about the Fifth Viscount.
Chapter 15
Remind yourself of chapter 15 . Find the passage (perhaps p170 in your edition) beginning: ‘He was sitting on a chair…’ and ending at the end of the chapter. How does Hartley capture the mind of a child? How and with what is this contrasted?
What attracts Leo to the rubbish dump?
Describe the confrontation between Leo and Marian. How do you judge Marian here?
Why does Leo cry?
What is the symbolic meaning of the state of the river?
Summarise Leo’s conversation with Ted.
What are your impressions of Ted here? (Anything new?)
Chapter 16
Comment on the content and style of Leo’s letter to his mother.
Describe Marcus behaviour at tea.
How does Leo persuade himself that going home is the right thing to do?
Chapter 17
What new information does Marcus reveal to Leo about Marian and his mother?
How does Leo react to the news about the bicycle?
How does Leo ‘strike back’ at Marian and Marcus?
What has happened to the belladonna? How is this symbolically significant?
Why and how does Leo lead Marcus away from the outbuildings?
Summarise Leo’s unspoken worries and dilemmas?
Chapter 18
How have Leo’s feelings for Marian change?
How does the feeling of ‘freedom’ manifest itself in everyone’s behaviour?
Why is Leo happier?
How does Leo interpret Ted’s letter?
What do Trimingham and Mr Maudsley say about Ted?
Why does Leo disapprove of the Teniers picture?
Chapter 19
Why does Leo feel so happy?
Summarise the conversation Leo has with Ted.
Consider the importance of the symbolism and the hints of the futurein this chapter.
Chapter 20
How does Leo’s mother reply in her letter?
How soes Leo react?
How and why does the mood at Brandham Hall alter when Mrs Maudsley recovers?
Summarise Leo’s conversation with Marian. What do you observe here that Leo misses?
Chapter 21
What does Leo fear?
How does Leo apportion blame i.e. who is at fault?
What steps does Leo take to ‘finish things off’?
What powers does Leo’s spell draw on?
Chapter 22
How significant is the change in the weather?
Describe Leo’s perception of his real self.
What is the significance of the two ties?
Comment on Leo’s new true personality.
Chapter 23
Describe Mrs Maudsley’s confrontation with Leo in the garden. What does she suspect/know?
Describe Leo’s birthday tea. Identify the grotesque elements.
Look at the visual detail of the penultimate paragraph and comment on its significance.
Epilogue
Give a brief account of the events that followed the discovery.
What were the effects of Leo’s spell?
What missing pieces does the adult Leo add to the incomplete picture?
What prompts Leo’s decision to return to Brandham Hall?
Is the end of the novel a satisfactory conclusion? Give reasons to support your viewpoint.
SOURCE: https://henneman.uk/hartley-the-go-be...
Nigeyb wrote: "Cold, solid slices of porridge - mmmm"Scottish polenta.
So what do people think of Marian? I kept waffling back and forth whether I liked her or not, whether I felt she was ever truly sincere with Leo or Ted. I thought Hartley did such an interesting thing by never giving too much of a look inside Marian and Ted's relationship. (view spoiler)In the end I liked her mix of pragmatism and selfishness and thought it was a unique character portrait. (view spoiler)
Kai, I found Marian difficult to fathom. There was, I felt, something quite unlikeable about her - but that may have just been her youth, emotion, etc. However, at the very end of the book (and I will be careful what I say for those who haven't finished) we do meet her again as an older woman. Niyeyb those questions are exhaustive! I must say that, reading through them, they did make me realise that I liked Trimingham. Both he and Ted seem to be fairer towards Leo, or consider his feelings more, than Marian. She switches between making a fuss of him, and being angry and cross. She is obviously using him, even when she first takes him out to buy new clothes, as a way in which she can meet Ted. I think he found that initial betrayal the hardest to accept later.
Julie wrote: "As porridge was often made in large batches it was made with water and salt. It would solidify and be eaten in cold slices over several days. Mostly eaten by farmers and workers, porridge would be..."
I read 'The Go-Between' at school and, although I loved it, I hated school so I don't want to read it again. I have been eating porridge lately, however, and it's easily ruined! I pity these poor things!
OMG, you started with out me. I have just started this - finally. Perhaps if I have comments we can revive the thread.
this is the lovely edition I'm reading. My sister gave it to me for Christmas seven or eight years ago - and even though I've done quite a few purges over the years I refused to part with this as I knew one day I would get around to reading it. "...but the past kept pricking at me and I knew that all the events of those nineteen days in July were astir within me, like the loosening phlegm in an attack of bronchitis, waiting to come up."
Now I'm only on page 60(?) but it is quite evident that Hartley has an entirely different perspective on the "rich" (I guess in England they'd be called "upper class") than Sackville-West presents in her works. I'm reading Cider With Rosie too - and it's taking priority, so The Go-Between is getting read in between for the moment. One is autobiographical fiction while the other is pure autobiography - both about two boys growing up in the early years of the 20th century - quite a juxtaposition.
Val wrote: "We see the situation as Leo does, so what has already gone on at Brandham Hall before he arrives is unclear. I don't think the Maudsleys needed to know Hugh to rent his house, that could have been ..."My review:
If A Room with a View is a comedy of manners, than this would be a tragedy of manners. Oh, the upper class - what can be done with them? So superior (in their own minds) to anyone "lower" than themselves.
This was a very compelling read. I found the narrative rather densely presented. Yet, the momentum built from page to page, chapter to chapter, coalescing brilliantly into catastrophe. The depictions of subjective morality are astutely communicated, especially in the case of Marian and Ted; their motivations and rationalizations are exasperating and irritating and impressively true to life. I was quite prepared to hate them for taking advantage of a 12 year old (his naiveté, not his person). However, now that the entire story is before me I'm willing to forgive or, at least, judge them less harshly.
The cricket match is a great set piece - though I know nothing of cricket. The portrait of these events and those at the village hall that follow - especially the singing - beautifully illustrate the events of a day that will stand as one of the most memorable in Leo's life.
I took a dislike to little Marcus as soon as he started schooling Leo in the etiquette of how to treat the servants - instructing him that it was bad form to fold your clothes nicely after taking them off for bed, instructing him instead to throw them on the floor and let the "help" pick them up as it's their place. Then later his description of Ted Burgess and other villagers denotes an inbred contempt for the lower classes.
My favorite character, other than Leo, was Lord Trimingham, who seemed the kindest and most down to earth of the upper-crusters. Perhaps this was due to his war injuries.
Mark 8:36 "For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" To build on that thought: "what's the point of being filthy rich if you can't even marry the person you love?"
-----------
Brandham Hall was the home of Lord Trimingham. He didn't have money. Marian didn't have a title. See how this works? Hugh has a large estate that he has to lease out in order to keep it. If he marries Marian he gets her fortune and she becomes a Viscountess (Lady Trimingham). Did her mother know of the affair? I'm thinking her suspicions are what made her sick.
I loved the black magic aspects of the story. We all know that its just mumbo jumbo but Leo is 11 years old - and damn if his curse didn't work on those bullies from school. But just imagine the guilt he would have suffered thinking that his curse with the nightshade had caused someone to commit suicide.
And did I interpret this correctly - just seeing the lovers actually making love and hearing the screams of Mrs. Maudsley - caused Leo to abstain from physical love for life?
Bright Young Things
Books mentioned in this topic
Cider with Rosie (other topics)The Go-Between (other topics)
The Go-Between (other topics)
The Go-Between (other topics)
The Go-Between (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
L.P. Hartley (other topics)L.P. Hartley (other topics)
'The Go-Between' by L.P. Hartley
Book description....
"The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there."
Summering with a fellow schoolboy on a great English estate, Leo, the hero of L.P. Hartley's finest novel, encounters a world of unimagined luxury. But when his friend's beautiful older sister enlists him as the unwitting messenger in her illicit love affair, the aftershocks will be felt for years. The inspiration for the brilliant Joseph Losey/Harold Pinter film starring Julie Christie and Alan Bates,'The Go-Between' is a masterpiece—a richly layered, spellbinding story about past and present, naiveté and knowledge, and the mysteries of the human heart.