Reading 1001 discussion

World's End TC Boyle

Summary from Goodreads: This multi-generational novel ranges over the history of the Hudson River Valley from the late seventeenth century to the late 1960s with low humor, high seriousness, and magical, almost hallucinatory prose. It follows the interwoven destinies of families of Indians, lordly Dutch patrons, and yeomen.

Author bio from Goodreads:

T. Coraghessan Boyle (also known as T.C. Boyle, born Thomas John Boyle on December 2, 1948) is a U.S. novelist and short story writer. Since the late 1970s, he has published eleven novels and more than 60 short stories. He won the PEN/Faulkner award in 1988 for his third novel, World's End, which recounts 300 years in upstate New York. He is married with three children. Boyle has been a Distinguished Professor of English at the University of Southern California since 1978, when he founded the school's undergraduate creative writing program.

He grew up in the small town on the Hudson Valley that he regularly fictionalizes as Peterskill (as in widely anthologized short story Greasy Lake). Boyle changed his middle name when he was 17 and exclusively used Coraghessan for much of his career, but now also goes by T.C. Boyle.

Reading Schedule:

November 1st - 5th Start - page 78 (Patrimony)
November 6th - 12th Patrimony -page 199 (Wailing Woman)
November 13th - 19th Wailing Woman - 279 (Open House)
November 20th - 26th Open House - 385 (Barrow)
November 27th - 30th Barrow - End

I'm trying to get this started, made it to page 8

Kristel wrote: "I'm trying to get this started, made it to page 8"

You are beating me I am aiming to get into it as soon as I leave the computer...

Book wrote: "Kristel wrote: "I'm trying to get this started, made it to page 8"

You are beating me I am aiming to get into it as soon as I leave the computer..."
I made it to page 28 today, squeezing a bit of reading in over lunch.

Kristel wrote: "Book wrote: "Kristel wrote: "I'm trying to get this started, made it to page 8"

You are beating me I am aiming to get into it as soon as I leave the computer..."
I made it to page 28 today, squeez..."

I have read this weeks section :) trying to get ahead so I can get some questions going

November 1st - 5th Start - page 78 (Patrimony)

1. What are your first impressions?
2. Which section do you find the most enjoyable past or present?
3. There are many instances of supernatural occurrences in both sections discuss the ones you have found.
4. Have you found any similarities between past and present and do you have any ideas on how they might develop as the book progresses?

I like the book so far and the back and forth. It feels very “magical realism” but it also makes me think about “history repeats itself” and the “sins of the father visit upon the children”. So far I am very impressed and feel that this book deserved to win the Pen/Faulkner Award.

Similarities, Jeremies and Walter loose a foot.
I do really like the history part but I think the back and forth between time really makes it so much better.

After having read the list of Principal Characters, I was a little intimidated, but once I started reading, I realized that it was not as difficult to keep everyone straight as I thought it would be. It is very readable and I like it quite a lot. I think that I am preferring the sections that deal with the past more than those that deal with the present, at least for now. The supernatural occurrence that stands out the most starkly is Harmanus' eating frenzy and the subsequent exorcism. When you build over an Indian burial ground...Then there are Walter's visions/hallucinations. He definitely has a strong link to the past. He lost the same leg that Jeremias lost. Walter appears to be paying for his families' sins.

November 6th - 12th Patrimony -page 199 (Wailing Woman)

Questions/ thoughts for this week

1) Which section are you enjoying most past or present?
2) What are the key themes of the book so far?
3) Based on the information we have so far why do you think Truman abandoned his family?
4) Share any quotes that have stuck with you.

Well this finally came into my library today. It took forever to get here, and it came from the main library. It must have been in a forgotten box. I am already way behind 😕

Dree wrote: "Well this finally came into my library today. It took forever to get here, and it came from the main library. It must have been in a forgotten box. I am already way behind 😕"

You will catch up. I am struggling to read tonight and afraid I am going to get behind.

Once you get into it I think it is a quick reading book. It doesn’t matter if you get behind just join in when you can :)

This week I am enjoying the present sections more than the past.

I am enjoying the book very much and like both sections but really getting into the present. It is reading faster than some books on this list. I’ve been sick but not too sick so I have been able to get some reading done.

Kristel wrote: "I am enjoying the book very much and like both sections but really getting into the present. It is reading faster than some books on this list. I’ve been sick but not too sick so I have been able t..."

Hope you are feeling better Kristel.

I had a migraine for Wednesday and Thursday so that really knocked my reading I was in bed 7:30pm both nights.

Book wrote: "Kristel wrote: "I am enjoying the book very much and like both sections but really getting into the present. It is reading faster than some books on this list. I’ve been sick but not too sick so I ..."

My cold started with what I thought was migraine, maybe it wasn’t. Finally made it back to work today. So a bit better.

I have made it to page 70 and I am really liking this! I have never read Boyle before (he is not on my radar at all). My high school senior just read his Tortilla Curtain (not a list book) for his California lit class.

Kristel wrote: "I like the book so far and the back and forth. It feels very “magical realism” but it also makes me think about “history repeats itself” and the “sins of the father visit upon the children”. So far..."

I am just starting this today. "Feels very magical realism" is not a description that is exciting me, lol.

Book wrote: "November 1st - 5th Start - page 78 (Patrimony).

I am only on page 115 and don't think I'll quite catch up to the schedule today, but in response to the Q&A so far:

1. What are your first impressions?

Honestly, I've loved T.C. Boyle in the past, and I'm pretty engaged so far. He writes like the words are a gusher just bubbling out of him. The first chapter was a little confusing, but after that, I got a handle on the plotline. In the Kindle version, it is not patently obvious that there is a guide to the characters at the front of the book. So glad I found that as there are a lot of characters and relationships to keep track of.

2. Which section do you find the most enjoyable past or present?

So far, I'm enjoying the past sections more. For one thing, they seem to be written in a more straightforward manner with less dream sequences (or hallucinations or whatever the fantasy parts are). I'm not a fan of that in general. And of course, all the hardships that naturally occur in the early settler days just make for interesting storytelling.

3. There are many instances of supernatural occurrences in both sections discuss the ones you have found.

Dang. I didn't mark these, but many, if not all, seem to revolve around Walter's character. Primarily visions he has of his father. Somehow, I'm not quite sure these are supernatural though . . .seems more like dreams or perhaps even fantasies or imaginings. I'm not sure.

4. Have you found any similarities between past and present and do you have any ideas on how they might develop as the book progresses?

Well, clearly many of the past people are ancestors of the present, and also the various families cross paths in both the past and the present. I'm guessing the sins of the past will be visited upon the characters of the present, but not really sure yet. It's still too early to know.

November 13th - 19th Wailing Woman - 279 (Open House)

Prompts for this week.

Past or present?
Mental health
Women
Punishment
quotes

I finished this last night--for once I am ahead of schedule.

I really enjoyed this and how certain character traits/personalities stay within the family lines over time. I did, though, enjoy the 17th century chapters a lot more.

I just have one question--is that a typo on the second to last page? Is it just in my edition? Or is it meant to mean something specific? Did I miss something important????? I have taken a picture of the page in question because my copy is going to go back to the library before those following the schedule are done.

Free I am following the schedule so will have to get back to you about typo. I am resisting the urge to flip ahead and see lol

I'm not sure it would be obvious if you flipped back and read. I kind of did a double take, and just got really confused and decided "typo". But, again, maybe I missed something? Maybe it's just my edition?

Miraculously, I have caught up to the schedule lol.

I am curious what the deal is with Truman. I'm still not clear on why he left his family. It sounded like he is secretly political activist (on the right) while everyone in his circle of friends and family were on the left? But, that alone doesn't seem enough to explain the situation. I hope we get enlightened soon . . .or that I didn't just miss it.

The portrayal of women in this book is also interesting. Really, not many of the characters in the book are super easy to like, but the women really are lacking the redeeming characteristics one might like to see. They are either mentally ill, loose, or subservient to men to the point of ridiculous. The men aren't any better so I think Boyle just likes to create characters that push the boundaries as opposed to him having something specific against the female gender . . .but somehow the women seem to play into the stereotypes more (hysterical, slutty, etc.).

Dree wrote: "I finished this last night--for once I am ahead of schedule.

I really enjoyed this and how certain character traits/personalities stay within the family lines over time. I did, though, enjoy the 1..."

I will keep an eye out! Still have 45% to go unfortunately.

I got off to a late start since I read Humboldt's Gift first. I am only 25% in and am just starting to get into it. The beginning was slow going for me. Odd book.

Diane wrote: "I got off to a late start since I read Humboldt's Gift first. I am only 25% in and am just starting to get into it. The beginning was slow going for me. Odd book."

I agree with the beginning being slow, but I got into it more and more as it progressed.

November 20th - 26th Open House - 385 (Barrow)

This week things get dark and I mean dark, there were several incidents I felt were unnecessary one especially...anyway back to the prompts for the week:

1) Past or present
2) Communication & propaganda
3) Heritage, children, family
4) Significance of the marker stone

Book wrote: "November 20th - 26th Open House - 385 (Barrow)

This week things get dark and I mean dark, there were several incidents I felt were unnecessary one especially..

Is this an 80s prerequisite? So many authors have written scenes similar to this one in their books from that decade. Why??? Ugh.

I finished last night, and am still processing.
In this section, the present takes up more, and starts using the past.
The sins of the fathers are showing more, and the sons are not only bearing the (van) Brunt (sorry, bad pun) of it, but starting to repeat a bit. Including their treatment of women.
An aside: I have found it interesting how Boyle threw little cliffhangers at the end of the chapters throughout the book when transitioning between the times.
2. There are several sides to a story, and Walter has heard at least two of them. Now he’s heading to Alaska to hear what he believes is the middle. I find the differences between the generations’ propaganda to be interesting, too. In the 40s, when the infamous incident took place, the folks that held the rally believed more in the Russian Communism, that Stalin’s ideals were a good thing. In the 60s, it’s peace, love and communism- Marx’s ideals that they’re trying to follow, where everything is shared with each other.
3. Where to begin? The younger generation, in the age old tradition, is rebelling against their parents’ generation, in all the centuries. Each of the modern characters has a rich family history, and all are intertwined, to the point that it’s confusing sometimes. Depuyster van Wart goes so far as to eat the dirt that could easily be his ancestors. And his daughter is determined to make him notice her by throwing herself at any man that represents what he dislikes.
4. This is revealed soon.
I enjoyed reading this book- it has given me a lot to consider, and Boyle’s style is fun and engaging. I need to look up the reasons for its inclusion on the list, though- not sure I saw anything really unique.

It did take me a long time to get into the story but it did become quite interesting. I did struggle a bit with the similarities in names and the constant shifts in time. Once I got all of that mastered, it made it easier to immerse myself into the story line. I enjoyed reading about the parallels between the lives of the present day characters and their ancestors. It makes me wonder how many parallels and uncanny coincidences there are between the generations of the average family.

Dree, I am trying to figure out the typo. It is possible we are reading different editions (I am reading a Penguin 1990 edition).

Diane, mine was a 1987 Viking edition with library binding. The typo in mine was a name. It may very well be just in my edition--because I am pretty sure it was a huge goof. If I hadn't taken a picture of the page I would think I was crazy. Or maybe I really missed something!!

And a whole week more til the reading schedule ends. Send me a PM if you really can't find it--because it might not be there.

Diane wrote: "It did take me a long time to get into the story but it did become quite interesting. I did struggle a bit with the similarities in names and the constant shifts in time. Once I got all of that mas..."

I agree, Diane. At first, I wasn't so sure, but I'm really into the story now. I have to say, I have loved T.C. Boyle's work in the past, so not completely surprised. I feel like his prose kind of comes at you fast and furious, and it takes a little while to get into the rhythm of his writing, but I really love his style and characters.

Dree wrote: "Diane, mine was a 1987 Viking edition with library binding. The typo in mine was a name. It may very well be just in my edition--because I am pretty sure it was a huge goof. If I hadn't taken a pic..."

Finished, and I definitely do not see a typo on the name that you are referring to . . .dying to see the photo now!

Here's my review for what it is worth:

****************************

It's funny, I just looked back at my review for Drop City (another book by Boyle), and somehow I want to write almost an identical review for this book even though the story is totally different. For me, reading Boyle is really not so much about the quality of the story he tells, but rather the way he tells it like no one else. His prose reminds me of a powerful waterfall . . .it's just water flowing over a cliff right, but somehow it evokes a certain feeling of awe in you when you look at it. Even though water alone or a cliff alone doesn't do the same. That's how Boyle's writing hits me. It starts off a little slow, but builds this momentum to where I can't stop thinking about the story and don't want to stop reading it. His work is populated with creative, not terribly likable characters, but he comes up with all sorts of fresh situations for them.

This book is almost like a saga with generations of the same families being described in the 17th century and the 20th century. The big picture theme is how the characters can't seem to escape the destiny outlined for them in the 17th century no matter how hard they try. Arguably, some don't try very hard. It's hard to really describe what Boyle does with these folks, but in one family line the characters keep being stricken with a desire to eat everything in sight. Another character eats dirt from his cellar when he is stressed. These quirks and foibles are throughout the book and add so much interest. Motivations are revealed, but more slowly so you have a chance to bring your own opinion to the table only to find out you are wrong.

Really well written book that deserves its spot on the 1001 Books to Read Before You Die list.

Barrow, Alaska is now on my bucket list of places I want to visit. Boyle didn't really paint a nice picture of it, but I was curious and looked up info about it.

Diane wrote: "Barrow, Alaska is now on my bucket list of places I want to visit. Boyle didn't really paint a nice picture of it, but I was curious and looked up info about it."
I don’t know- the temperature alone is enough for me to pass! Brr!

Tracy wrote: "Diane wrote: "Barrow, Alaska is now on my bucket list of places I want to visit. Boyle didn't really paint a nice picture of it, but I was curious and looked up info about it."
I don’t know- the te..."

It would definitely be in the summer when the sun is out 24/7. NEVER in the winter. I could not even imagine!

Better late than never....I just received the library copy and have plunged. After the slow start and "who are all these people" that others have mentioned, I am finding it a pretty quick read. I am actually loving the back and forth in time with the sins of the father theme. I also am marveling at how well he is integrating the "magical" or delusions with a less than standard reality. Much like the other books I have read from TC Boyle, he doesn't make his characters likeable. Even the heroes crumble at the slightest opportunity. I will try and catch up enough to answer the regular questions this coming week,

November 27th - 30th Barrow - End

We are now in the final stretch here are your prompts for the week

1. Barrow
2. Truman
3. Family
4. The ending

How would you rate the book and does it deserve a place on the list.

So, I just joined your group this week, but I am well into this one and I am really enjoying it. And I am learning a lot too.

I finished the book. My first Boyle book. I liked it. I agree with Anita. It is a family saga type book and I liked reading the back and forth between the 1600s and the more current time (I think seventies/hippies). It was interesting to learn about the Dutch who came to the United States and settled here. So often we think of Puritan’s and they were not even here as early as the Dutch.

Barrow, Alaska. I looked it up to and it doesn’t look like much. One would get bored quickly unless you brought a pile of books to read. I posted a picture on Litsy. I agree about summer maybe being best but the bugs could be bad. I think it might be fun to experience the sun setting in December and not returning until January (once) and then catch a quick Cessna out.

Rating:
Legacy; some originality but not that the family saga, sins of the father hasn’t been done before, 4 (he understood content)
Plot: 5
Characterization: 5
Readability: 5, Agree with Anita, the author’s words just cascade and very readable
Achievement: won the Pen/Faulkner Award for American Fiction, 1001 Books,Ccalifornia book award silver medal 5
Style: not that back and forth hasn’t been done before but Boyle’s style is unique to him. 4
Rating 4.375

Kristel wrote: "I finished the book. My first Boyle book. I liked it. I agree with Anita. It is a family saga type book and I liked reading the back and forth between the 1600s and the more current time (I think s..."

I love your rating system - - and agree with all of the sub ratings.

Yes, I love your rating system too.
Could it have been that when the book was originally published in the 80's the back and forth was a bit more unique? I don't know.
I am not sure I loved the ending. I felt as if the emotional payoff strangely came through stronger for Tom Crane than for Walter. Walter's succumbing to what was in his bones didn't impact me as much as the tension in the chapter about Tom where I was worried the imp would show up and create havoc and he had to make a decision while hazy with dope and drink about his relationship to Jessica. At any rate, a delightful read and I learned a lot of Hudson Valley history including the Robeson riots which I had never heard of before.

I was quite irritated by Walter (did not like him at all and had very little compassion for him), what he did to his wife was inexcusable. The only other person I totally disliked more than Walter was Marci.

I think the ending fit for me.

When rating a book, I always keep the date of publication in mind. I do think back and forth story telling has been an old technique not unique in the 80s but I think Boyle had his own twist to it. He is a great story teller. 4 out of 5 is still a good score for legacy.

I liked how Boyle took the “communist issue” of the 60s and 70s and looked at pros and cons from both the conservative and the liberal perspective. He did one of the best jobs in my readings yet. Neither side being without blame. So true.

I have a dumb question -- but somehow I missed it. What does the term "jellyfish eater" refer to? It seems like a racist comment, but how?

Kelly wrote: "I have a dumb question -- but somehow I missed it. What does the term "jellyfish eater" refer to? It seems like a racist comment, but how?" I think it was meant to be derogatory, because who would eat a jellyfish. Perhaps it is another way of saying brown noser?

Kristel wrote: "I liked how Boyle took the “communist issue” of the 60s and 70s and looked at pros and cons from both the conservative and the liberal perspective. He did one of the best jobs in my readings yet. N..."

The more I’ve thought about this, I realize why it’s on the list. Boyle’s writing style is so skilled that you don’t realize the issues he addresses until after you’ve read it. It’s like a teacher that’s so good, students don’t realize they’re learning.

I just finished. I really loved this book. Gave it four stars -- but leaned towards five.