Forgotten Classics and Other Lesser Known Books (or No One Has Read this but Me!) discussion

Our next group read will be The Restraint of Beasts by Magnus Mills. We'll start discussing it in this thread on February 1. Please obtain your copy and join us.

Unless someone strongly disagrees, I propose that we plan to use spoiler tags for the first week or so of the discussion, and then spoilers may appear in comments (without hiding them behind tags) from Feb 10 forward.

I'll do some research over the next couple of days and share any background info I identify that might be of interest. In the meantime, has anyone read other Mills novels or works? If, yes, is your view positive and why?

I'm planning to read with you. No, haven't read any of his works before.

He's new to me, too, so glad I'm not alone.

I'm likely to start reading this weekend. I need to finish a couple of other books before I begin. FYI.

Suits me, Carol. I'm in the middle of 2 books at present. Need to finish them.

I would quite like to read this one as it is a book one of my real life friends liked a lot, but realistically it is unlikely to happen this month - I am already committed to reading a thousand page monster and would like to maintain my other self-imposed constraint, i.e. alternation of male and female authors...

Hugh wrote: "I would quite like to read this one as it is a book one of my real life friends liked a lot, but realistically it is unlikely to happen this month - I am already committed to reading a thousand pag..."

Good luck with the monster, .Hugh. If all goes spectacularly and unexpectedly well and fast, we look forward to your delayed arrival.

I managed to find a copy of this one at the library! Hopefully I can join you all :)

Danada wrote: "I managed to find a copy of this one at the library! Hopefully I can join you all :)"

Yay! I hope so, Danada.

I'm a few pages into chapter 3 so far

not sure if we are using spoiler alerts still so I'm erring on the side of caution:

(view spoiler)[So far I've laughed out loud several times... the humor is a bit strange, but I like it. The characters are quite interesting too -- and the interactions between/among them! I have to confess... my jaw quite literally dropped at the accident with Mr McCrindle and the reactions/actions of the three men. (hide spoiler)]

I am very interested to see what happens next in the story.

Edited to add: this is also my first time reading anything by this author.

I finished this one over the weekend and am still thinking about it (and thinking of re-reading it!).

I'm eager to hear everyone's thoughts about it.

Danada wrote: "I'm a few pages into chapter 3 so far

not sure if we are using spoiler alerts still so I'm erring on the side of caution:

[spoilers removed]

I am very interested to see what happens next in the ..."

Re your spoiler, no kidding. (view spoiler)[They don't even discuss calling Donald or Robert, reporting his death to the police, anything. This was my first clue that our narrator isn't a great deal more together (mentally and socially) than Tam and Richie. Or are these teams of hit men and the fence-building is a cover? I am seeking an explanation for the mutual, casual response to his death amongst three guys who met yesterday. (hide spoiler)]

I'm having flashbacks to every work and school group project ever where I perceived I was the only one working, lol.

Danada wrote: "I finished this one over the weekend and am still thinking about it (and thinking of re-reading it!).

I'm eager to hear everyone's thoughts about it."

That was fast! I'm at chapter five and likely a day behind you but this is indeed a compelling read and I would be helpless to explain why.

Carol wrote: "... but this is indeed a compelling read and I would be helpless to explain why."

IKR? It seriously boggles the mind that a book about three guys building fences could be so compelling (that's a good word for it).... I found myself unable to put the book down this past weekend.

Carol wrote: (view spoiler)[ "They don't even discuss calling Donald or Robert, reporting his death to the police, anything. This was my first clue that our narrator isn't a great deal more together (mentally and socially) than Tam and Richie. Or are these teams of hit men and the fence-building is a cover?" (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[It seemed almost surreal. They all just seemed to take it in stride.... and this (apparently) was the only logical thing to do... ????? surreal! ha! I hadn't considered the hit-man scenario but.... :D The title "Restraint of Beasts" seems significant. (hide spoiler)]

Danada wrote: "Carol wrote: "... but this is indeed a compelling read and I would be helpless to explain why."

IKR? It seriously boggles the mind that a book about three guys building fences could be so compelli..."

I'm dreading the moment when my spouse or daughter see a bold red book cover with two big-a shovels and inquire, what's that one about? I need a cover story, no pun intended.

@carissa, you started this one -right?

:laughing:

we'll have to think of something clever.....

On page 77, the 3 men are getting ready to head to the pub, and Richie is buffing his cowboy boots "with his spare underpants." Not only can't I recall ever hearing a grown man refer to such apparel as "underpants," but I now have the perfect quote and image to change the subject of what the book is about, if needed.

Chapter 9. Oh my. Another typical day at work (view spoiler)[if a typical day at work includes accidentally killing customers who haven't yet paid you. (hide spoiler)]

Carol wrote: (view spoiler)[ "if a typical day at work includes accidentally killing customers who haven't yet paid you]" (hide spoiler)]

eh... if it was me (view spoiler)[ I'd wait 'till I got my money ;) seriously though my jaw literally dropped a second time when this happened! (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 11. Re Ralph. (view spoiler)[I'm comforted that, while neither prior death has given rise to any expressed worries about children, parents or spouses, with Robert's accidental demise, Tam is concerned about who will look after Ralph. That was my first thought, too. "Oh, no -- what about Ralph?" My second thought was, what's the manslaughter rate for Teams 1 and 2 because it's not so good for Team 3. (hide spoiler)]

*fingers tapping anxiously*

Good deal, lol.

In the meantime, since I will find links to some blogs/reviews we can read and discuss at our leisure.

No spoilers in this one:
http://www.stuckinabook.com/the-restr...

I agree entirely with this review. Note - spoilers.

http://brothersjudd.com/index.cfm/fus...

end of book spoiler

(view spoiler)[did you notice the bit about there not being any more gangs anymore? Somewhere near the end Donald tells Gang #3 or the anonymous foreman that interesting tidbit.... what happened to Gangs 1 & 2? (hide spoiler)]

Danada wrote: "end of book spoiler

[spoilers removed]"

Yes, that was odd. Wasn't it? and (view spoiler)[ and there's earlier a mention of there being a new guy around, the one who helped Donald build the pens for the Halls, but our guys haven't seen him and never do. (hide spoiler)]

This is the first book I've read in a long time that I am unsure what the heck just occurred, and I'm looking forward to when (whenever -- no pressure intended) we can openly discuss the what, why, what it means, does it matter, and was Mills successful at what he was trying to do. I'll need to ponder it a couple of days, too.

Virtual beer for all Restraint readers is on my tab :)

I've still got about 20 pages to read - my husband disappeared with the book. But should get it back soon. He is a fast reader.

Cordelia wrote: "I've still got about 20 pages to read - my husband disappeared with the book. But should get it back soon. He is a fast reader."

Ack!!!

It is a pretty fast read, I thought. I trust no husband, though, with my book :)

carissa wrote: "Carol wrote: "Chapter 11. Re Ralph. [spoilers removed]"

[spoilers removed] Yes! I think. If they ever existed. It's still entirely unclear to me.


How very wicked...and, uh, Sepia-toned humored. [spoilers removed]"

I still don't understand the last sentence, e.g., how does the speaker know about the person mentioned?

What exactly is the deal with Donald?

Was Robert in on the big picture? Does the big picture only begin when Donald takes over for Robert, or was this enterprise operating all along as it is operating at the end of the novel?

I am looking forward to having you all explain it to me because I truly can't put an explanation together that makes sense.

Got my book back. Finished it. But now I am really confused - I'm not sure I know what is going on. Thought it was just a simple silly yarn - but now it seems to be much more complicated. I might read it again.

Cordelia wrote: "Got my book back. Finished it. But now I am really confused - I'm not sure I know what is going on. Thought it was just a simple silly yarn - but now it seems to be much more complicated. I might r..."

I'm not alone then, lol. I knew when things turned, but I got to the end and couldn't put it all together. It's like a Rubik's Cube I can't solve. carissa - did you understand it?

I've just realised that I dont understand it. The stuff with Donald and Robert confuses me.

Why was Donald not upset about Robert's death? What had the Hall brothers to do with it?

So that's my problem. Unfortunately, 90% of the world is so fixated on spoilers that reviewers and bloggers won't discuss or kick around alternative interpretations of the ending. Grrrrrr.

Fine - it's a fable, and we understand that it's workers vs. owners, and the cages are for the workers and it's not even enough if the workers put in a good days' work; they must be barred from going out drinking, using poor judgment, wasting time, having sex, being a woman (apparently), .... but as a story, how does the business Donald runs relate? What does that business with its various teams get out of having its personnel working for Hall permanently? Didn't Robert have to die in order for the ending to play out as it does, but wasn't Robert's death an accident? What would have happened if they'd just stayed in Scotland and not gone back? And why is Hall Brothers even doing this?

I guess, for a fable (or parable) to work for me, it has to work both with each item in the story operating as it does in the realistic world, and than also with each item represented by the items in the story working in a parallel representative form. Did Mills run out of steam and forget that it all had to work backwards - in both renditions - or are we missing the explanation that would make it function on both planes, as it were?

At this point, I say, "spoilers be damned" so we can hash this out.

I think we are past spoilers being hidden, arn't we. There is a sense that Mills decided to end the story. I have just finished Dunbar by Edward St. Aubyn. He did the same thing - the book just finished, completely up in the air. No explanations, no rounding off. Maybe Mills doing the same thing.

Nevertheless, I feel I have missed stuff. I think a reread is in order.

Cordelia wrote: "Why was Donald not upset about Robert's death? What had the Hall brothers to do with it?"

Great questions!

I suspect you are right, Carissa. I have just reread the first 2 chapters. They have gone back to fix McCardles(?sp) fence and have learned how terribly "disappointed" he is. He is the person at the end to be disappointed.

I have decided that even though I am still puzzled by this book I am going to accept it for what it was.

It was beautifully written. It was hilarious - laugh out loud funny. I really enjoyed reading it. I have ordered another of Mills' books from the library.

Pynchon's comment on the front cover describes it beautifully - "A demented deadpan-comic wonder..."

Cordelia wrote: "I have decided that even though I am still puzzled by this book I am going to accept it for what it was.

It was beautifully written. It was hilarious - laugh out loud funny. I really enjoyed readi..."

I agree. I give up on figuring out a way for the ending to work. I enjoyed this tremendously and also want to read another. It’s difficult to believe this was a debut.

I decided to read the next book that he wrote. All Quiet on the Orient Express. Thought it might be interesting to see if he stuck to the same formula.

Cordelia wrote: "I decided to read the next book that he wrote. All Quiet on the Orient Express. Thought it might be interesting to see if he stuck to the same formula."

I'm highly intrigued to hear what you think about it.

I have now got a copy of this book, but my backlog is so big that it may still be a while before I read it. Some of the books on my to-read shelf have been there since last summer.

Hugh wrote: "I have now got a copy of this book, but my backlog is so big that it may still be a while before I read it. Some of the books on my to-read shelf have been there since last summer."

Do you read them in order of purchase or as the desire strikes you?

I try not to let the older ones stay there indefinitely, but some group reads get priority treatment and I like to alternate male and female authors...

"Restraint" is a quick read. It wont take you long to read.

Cordelia wrote: ""Restraint" is a quick read. It wont take you long to read."
I appreciate that - just wanted to explain why I can't give it top priority, and realistically I can't see myself reading it this month.

Hugh wrote: "Cordelia wrote: ""Restraint" is a quick read. It wont take you long to read."
I appreciate that - just wanted to explain why I can't give it top priority, and realistically I can't see myself readi..."

I didn't mean to be pushy. I quite understand.