SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

So! What'd you think?

Okay so on paper I should have loved this book because it contains a vast interdimensional library, hoarding books, and linguistic magic but to me it was just okay. I think part of the problem was that all the things that were intriguing to me came really close to the end like the whole secret sister and mystery baby business.

This book reminded me of a Hanna Barbara cartoon: "Excuse me while I drive this stake through your heart. Don’t take it personally or anything."

I thought it was good- crafted well, suspenseful, and with a clear purpose and resolution. Maybe I had a tough time with robots and vampires in the same alternate world, but that was part of the charm too. The characters grew as the story progressed without dragging. There was a lot of dithering, but I felt it built suspense and added to the intrigue. The language was beautifully written. I thoroughly enjoyed the style of writing. It was even better since I listened to it read by a woman with a thick English accent. Perfect!

My only criticism is that the stakes weren’t higher. It’s hard for me to get too excited about a missing book, you know. There's just so many of them.

My ultimate reaction was that this book was good but not great. The concept is a solid 10/10 while the execution is 7/10. The dialogue was a bit too repetitive. However, for a debut novel it was pretty good overall.

I liked the concept enough that I read the sequel, The Masked City, which improved on the issues I had. It’s kind of cool to see an author improve like that.

Both books were crackling with ideas, which I found immensely appealing.

The book has a great premise but it didn’t enthralled me while reading as some books do. Maybe it was because of some YA feel, but I cannot say I don’t like YA books… I didn’t really liked main characters and it was clear for me that this is 1st book in a series, so no one will die, etc., which downplayed confrontations a bit.

I enjoyed this one well enough, but don’t feel an urge to run out and read all the sequels (although I could see picking them at some point down the road if I want a light-hearted diversion). I could easily picture this as a relatively modest budget show on something like the Syfy network. It had a good mix of adventure, comedy, and self-aware winks at the reader, but was not life changing in any way, basically just some pleasant comfort food type reading, a nice change of pace from some of the grimdark fare out there.

Overall I’m glad to have read it.

I’ll join the crowd of “liked it but was hoping for more”. It reminded me a lot of an old SyFy show Warehouse 13, with the blend of humor, slightly over the top plot twists, and vague sense that Something Bad might happen but that’s never really totally realized. (I suppose I’m supposed to be terrified of Alberich, but he feels like a Bond villain frankly.)

I did go ahead and read the sequel and will probably get to the others eventually - the sequel improves a bit but in both I feel as if the author can’t quite decide if she wants to write a light-hearted romp that doesn’t take itself seriously or a more serious story about interconnected parallel works and order vs chaos, etc. I’d be happy to read either one of those, but the mix just reminded me all the more that I was reading candy and made me want to go find chocolate.

At the beginning I felt a kind of Harry Potter fun vibe to it. By the end I struggled to continue. It was promising but felt paper thin for the world and characters.

It was a silly bit of fun. I'm not going to try and venerate it but I never felt like it had aspirations above its station anyway.

It was fun. I liked the world building and the characters are cute. Three and a half stars, but it is a beach read.

I've had sunburns that hurt me less than this book. I loathed it. I didn't feel the intrigue, since it was set up pretty early on that Vale was going to just solve everything. The characters were all jackasses, with the exception of Vale, who really should have been the POV of this story. He was the impetus.

Everything was just so convenient, and illogical but not in a fun or whimsical way. Yeah. I found nothing pleasant here, sorry!

I probably missed something and I admit I might have skimmed a bit especially in the last part. Why were they all after that particular book? It's the Grimm's fairy tales, not some obscure volume, there should be a lot of copies circulating in the world. Is it because for some reason the last 2 stories were never put in the first published edition so that one is in fact the only text containing Alberich's story?

~ Giulia ~ wrote: "I probably missed something and I admit I might have skimmed a bit especially in the last part. Why were they all after that particular book? It's the Grimm's fairy tales, not some obscure volume, ..."


Yes. This is the only copy on any alternate which contains to story about Alberich and the Library.

I finished this last night. I liked it well enough that I'll probably continue the series, but I didn't love it.

I think, ultimately, it felt like a "cozy mystery" to me, which is fine. I quite like cozy mysteries - but I don't think that's what I expected going in, so it's not what I was expecting.

My main complaint is that I wish things were explored more. That we knew more about the Library, that the characters had a bit more depth, that the rules were actually explained via action rather than exposition, and that they didn't seem so contradictory.

For instance, at one point Irene says something about you can't tell a locked door to to open, but you can tell the lock itself to open... but then later someone tells the door to open, and it opens, locks and all.

The "rules" just seemed sort of arbitrary based on the plot needs at the time, and for something which spent so much time telling us what the rules were, it would be nice if they were followed. (Also, I still didn't quite understand the rules by the end. I mean, I expected chaos to be more, well, chaotic?)

Anyway -

I'm hoping that things gets a bit tighter in future books, and that more of the Library is explored. The way it ended, with Copellia (sp?) sort of telling Irene she needed to do more research, does suggest that this will be the case.

I was somewhat disappointed that Irene is going back to this particular alternate in the end, though. I get her being happy about it, because of her attraction/admiration/whatever for Vale and all - but one of the things about setting up a world with the ability toe hop into alternate universes is the promise to actually explore alternate universes - not to get stuck in one magi-tech like Victorian world which, frankly, already exists in quite a few stories. (And, don't get me wrong, I love Victorian stories, but the premise of this series sort of hints to the possibility of a different world every book, and, for now at least, it just seems like we're not getting that.)

I also wish that this was a trilogy or at least a series with a set number of books. I tend to prefer those to ones which have no clear end in site, for fear of getting mired down into the endless filler books which such series sometimes end up producing...

So - what did I like?

I did actually like the characters, especially Vale and Kai, even if I wish they had a bit more depth to them. And it was a quick and fast-paced story, despite being bogged down in too much telling vs showing sometimes.

I sort of liked that it reminded me a lot of the 'The Librarian' movies, and now 'The Librarians' TV show which was sadly cancelled.

And I do like the idea of the rogue Librarian and questions about whether the Library is really a force for good or not - despite it being a bit too close to the plotline of the last season of 'The Librarians'... :-/

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "I was somewhat disappointed that Irene is going back to this particular alternate in the end, though.."

Me too. If there were another alternate I may be reading it just to see how well the author builds worlds...

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "I finished this last night. I liked it well enough that I'll probably continue the series, but I didn't love it.

I think, ultimately, it felt like a "cozy mystery" to me, which is fine. I quite li..."

Completely agree.

Agree with others said. I think it may suffer from “first book syndrome” in that it had multiple flaws which may be addressed in the later books in the series.

I also liked that the book was fast-paced. But the plot is silly and easily predicted. I also don’t see why this one alternate world needs to be returned to. There’s a lot of potential to the setting which is not realized in book 1.

Overall I liked it enough to go on and read the sequels. I agree it is on the lighter side. My biggest like was all the library description and feel, and also the world building in general. My biggest dislike was Irene's internal dialogue - in part the tone of it and in part the content. That settled down in book 2 - I did rather like the complexities of the alternate world Venice at festival time.
I was a little disappointed by The Burning City (book 3) because from the blurb I was anticipating it all being set in St Petersburg and it wasn't.

There’s too many REALLY GOOD books out there for me to spend time on books that are “not too bad.” I don’t think I’ll be reading the sequels any time soon.

Stayed up late to finish. It was as I feared, too many elements that just weren’t explored well, or didn’t seem to have much to do with the plot. I’m so spoiled by J.K. Rowling right now - I want literally every little thing in a book to have a purpose and be significant to the story. This had lots of cool stuff, including some fun action scenes, but it didn’t all seem to mesh well. And the two main characters were kinda immature in my opinion, maybe that was the writing though. All the mental notes and things in italics were distracting. I need inner dialogue to be more subtle, I guess. Also the Language was kind of annoying. And I don’t get the ending but perhaps I was skimming too much by then - what is she going back to that world to research? I don’t really care to find out; the only thing I’m interested in knowing more about is Kai being a dragon, but I doubt I’ll read the sequels.

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: " I wish things were explored more. That we knew more about the Library, that the characters had a bit more depth, that the rules were actually explained via action rather than exposition, and that they didn't seem so contradictory.
"

Agree with Colleen. I liked many of the individual elements - the mistery, the humour, the action and light read, fantasy and dragons, steampunk, multiverse, cool detective etc. ... however it just felt like a pizza gone wrong (sushi hawaian meatballs blue cheese duck).

For a book written with the voice of an agent of "order", order was the main thing lacking. For example I did not get how some of the magic involved was linked to order and some to chaos - there were some explanations in the book, but the actual magic used was sometimes similar and inconsistent.

The writer definitely has potential ... just probably needs more time and friends to help her sort out the word building and the character building (I also noticed the similar voices).

Like Carro, I think my biggest problem with this was Irene's internal dialogue. Overall I liked the story and would probably read the next one via the library (irony) over buying it. My problem with Irene is she seemed so judgmental in places and almost too focused on the books like she couldn't imagine anyone liking anything else.

I agree there are definitely holes in the world building. I wanted to know more about Kai and why a dragon wants to be a librarian and are the librarians concerned by this? Pleased? Fearful?

Give the big deal that was made about not many librarians being in relationships or having kids I have to wonder down the road Irene will turn out to be Alberich's niece.

Cornerofmadness wrote: "Give[n] the big deal that was made about not many librarians being in relationships or having kids I have to wonder down the road Irene will turn out to be Alberich's niece.."
Haha that was exactly my first thought when the story was read at the end and tbh finding out would probably be my only motivation for reading on.

HeyT wrote: "Cornerofmadness wrote: "Give[n] the big deal that was made about not many librarians being in relationships or having kids I have to wonder down the road Irene will turn out to be Alberich's niece...."


Glad I'm not alone in thinking that. I'd read on for that and finding out more about Kai.

Also to see if the author would commit more fully to the idea Irene is a lesbian.

Oleksandr wrote: "colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "I was somewhat disappointed that Irene is going back to this particular alternate in the end, though.."

Me too. If there were another alternate I may be reading it just to see how well the author builds worlds... "

For me, too, the permanent assignment was a disappointing bit about the ending. The good news is that in the second book they stay there for about a minute, and then it’s off to another alternate world. And then a third alternate and also the in-between. Plus trips to the library.

And we get to meet Kai’s family. Which is a whole thing. Superpowered shapeshifting dragons who run giant high-tech multinational multiworld conglomerates? Tread lightly, girlfriennnd.

If Irene is a lesbian (and the private detective and police investigator from the alternate are a gay couple) then I might be convinced to read the sequels...

MadProfessah wrote: "If Irene is a lesbian (and the private detective and police investigator from the alternate are a gay couple) then I might be convinced to read the sequels..."

All of Bradamont's comments about the mission Irene doesn't want to talk about (and Irene's flat refusal about Kai not being her type) lead me to think thats where it's going.

Trike wrote: "For me, too, the permanent assignment was a disappointing bit about the ending. The good news is that in the second book they stay there for about a minute, and then it’s off to another alternate world. And then a third alternate and also the in-between. Plus trips to the library.

And we get to meet Kai’s family. Which is a whole thing. Superpowered shapeshifting dragons who run giant high-tech multinational multiworld conglomerates? Tread lightly, girlfriennnd. "


That's good information to know, and definitely does make me a bit more keen on the series. Thanks. :)

***

I didn't get the impression that Irene was going to be lesbian. I thought her attraction to Hale, and her brief regret and not taking Kai up on his offer, and his comment to him that her type is dark, brooding men... with the additional information that she was involved with a woman in the past... leads clear indicators of a bi- or pansexual nature.

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "Trike wrote: "For me, too, the permanent assignment was a disappointing bit about the ending. The good news is that in the second book they stay there for about a minute, and then it’s off to anoth..."

That's certainly a possibility as well

See, I don't even think it was a compelling LGBTQ+ book. From what we're told, she has had one known lesbian relationship that was 1. a source of shame for her 2. set up by her abusive mentor (assignation still means secret lover meeting and is a euphemism for sex work, yes?) 3. to hurt the other woman. That doesn't feel like a healthy way to portray lesbians.

Also, we see that to Irene, romantic entanglements are often part of the job or shameful, which feels a lot more like they're displaying her orientation as a tool rather than her identity. That feels dangerously close to hurtful tropes, if we're assuming she's bi/pan.

Well, she *is* British.

I had a bit the opposite reaction to people - I went in with relatively low expectations after being burnt out on my last few books and found something that was light, silly and fun that kept me going over a lonesome weekend. The world building was certainly a bit all over the shot and not particularly developed, not to mention some cliches, but there was enough there for me to just enjoy the ride and by the end feeling pretty satisfied and a little bit intrigued over what happens next. Definitely would need to do some more world jumping though which sounds like the plan.

If I hadn't read this after a month slogging through Way of Kings (which I found a bit overrated.....) it was a really welcome change. If I read this in the middle of a bunch of similar types, it might have left me a bit colder.

But yes Irene & Alberich are definitely linked somehow.

Oleksandr wrote: "colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "I was somewhat disappointed that Irene is going back to this particular alternate in the end, though.."

Me too. If there were another alternate I may be re..."

Every book in the series features a different alternate world as central.

Allison wrote: "See, I don't even think it was a compelling LGBTQ+ book. From what we're told, she has had one known lesbian relationship that was 1. a source of shame for her 2. set up by her abusive mentor (assi..."

I had those reservations myself but I couldn't tell if she was ashamed of the relationship or of letting Bradamont exploit her and the relationship. If it's the former then yeah, that is deeply hurtful to the community.

She seemed to treat all relationships that way, though - whether friend or acquaintance or lover. It was all about her mission and what she could get out of the relationship.

I believe her shame about it, though, leads into her questioning of the Library and will be explored more throughout the series, though, and the fact that she will be working with some regular people will, I think, make her reflect on and rethink her approach to how she treats people.

At least that's where I suspect it would go, were I the author.

Cornerofmadness wrote: "Allison wrote: "See, I don't even think it was a compelling LGBTQ+ book. From what we're told, she has had one known lesbian relationship that was 1. a source of shame for her 2. set up by her abus..."

It could be...but if so then I also would have liked some of the women Irene met to have been described positively. Not being a lesbian myself, maybe I have this wrong, but it seems to me that if you're attracted to women you'd...notice women in positive lights? We see clear signs of attraction to Kai and Vale, but the women around her are all described as ugly, manipulative, short tempered or gorgeous in a shallow way and abusive. I dunno. It read to me very much like "bi as a weapon" or "lesbian, except for the men attracted to her" thing that grated on me. Also though, the whole book grated on me, so it's possible I read everything in the least charitable light, rather than through a neutral lens.

On a totally random note, this is probably the steampunk novel with the most frequent use of the word “alligator(s)” at 58.

Okay, I think it's time for our all time favorite hobby (after actually reading of course): genre wars!

Would you agree this is steampunk? Why or why not?

Allison wrote: "Okay, I think it's time for our all time favorite hobby (after actually reading of course): genre wars!

Would you agree this is steampunk? Why or why not?"

No, not really. Everything is Victorian, but I did not see machines, only magic.

aPriL does feral sometimes wrote: "I did not see machines, only magic. ."

Horseless carriages, zeppelins, mechanical centipedes, mention of difference engines

Oleksandr wrote: "aPriL does feral sometimes wrote: "I did not see machines, only magic. ."

Horseless carriages, zeppelins, mechanical centipedes, mention of difference engines"

Well. Ok, then. Harrumph.

Actually I haven't read any true hard Sf steampunk, they all either have magic explicitly or they don't work in our physical universe - all these armored airships, giant steam walkers, even steam-mobiles - rails weren't used accidentally in the real world - steam engine isn't very powerful per pound of its mass, so it has trouble moving itself on roads

Oleksandr wrote: "Actually I haven't read any true hard Sf steampunk, they all either have magic explicitly or they don't work in our physical universe - all these armored airships, giant steam walkers, even steam-m..."

Yeah, most steampunk is Fantasy. Karen Memory is one of the few SF steampunk novels I’ve encountered, but I didn’t think the book was very good.

Suddenly wondering - how would you classify Jim Butcher's The Aeronaut's Windlass ? It has sky sailing ships, and people with sort of techno-magic power, buildings that sound sf-ish and vat protein.

It is like this book in having a lot of magic, but a little better in plot and writing, I think.

How about The Strange Affair of Spring Heeled Jack?

I haven’t read either of those but the descriptions sound like Fantasy to me.

Magic, werewolves, magic, talking cats, magic... a veneer of technology doesn’t mitigate the impossible stuff, and any story with impossible things in it is Fantasy by default.

The original steampunk stuff was SF with no magic (even though the power demands for such large machines were impossible) but the genre quickly picked up a lot of fantasy.

I would, and in fact did call Aeronaut's windlass fantasy

Mary wrote: "The original steampunk stuff was SF with no magic (even though the power demands for such large machines were impossible) but the genre quickly picked up a lot of fantasy."

I think it’s always been more Fantasy than SF. The first time I encountered a solidly SF steampunk was The Difference Engine, which was probably the book that solidified the genre’s basic concept, but it’s kind of an outlier.

I listened to the audiobook and the narrator was pretty annoying. I was hoping for a light, fun audio series, but it was a weird combination of MG level plot and out of the blue sex talk. The story is a mix of several much better books I've already read. I'm not sure if I want to read the rest of the series, but I'm definitely not continuing straight to the next book like I thought I would.