SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

Starts from June 25th, two weeks from now.

And let the roll call begins!

I hadn't noticed there's a buddy read for this. I've already read it, but I'm interested to see the discussion!

Yup, I think we scheduled it in April.

Looks really interesting and not too heavy, just looking at the sample.

I own it and plan to read it on schedule.

I'll be curious to see what other people here think of this. I liked it overall but I had a pretty big issue with it as well. Don't know if I'll re-read it or not but I'll definitely be stopping back in here to check in.

I'm in! I just have to remember it's on my kindle.

I plan to jump in as well.

I'm in.

I’m in (and will hopefully start on time & keep up with the discussion this time!)

Looking good :D Been having a swell month with BR so far here

Picked my copy up at the library today. Just re-read the blurb and cant wait to start!

Cool, Sarah. I'll be starting this in a few days.

Starting tomorrow (well, later today..I’m up late)!

We still have three days till the official starting date but I like the spirit :D

Well, I’m about to go on vacation in a week and I want to have certain books finished before I go. I won’t get much reading done while on vacation but I do have a couple books I want to read with my dad and brother’s friend while we’re all together.

Ashley wrote: "Well, I’m about to go on vacation in a week and I want to have certain books finished before I go. I won’t get much reading done while on vacation but I do have a couple books I want to read with m..."

Whoa that is so cool that you all are reading something together. I wish I could do that with my dad but he loves TV more.

This just came in from the library! I'm in as well.

2%

The name of Jack Chen reminds me of Jacky Chan. Am I the only one? 😆

I love the fact that the MC had a submarine.

*Jackie not Jacky.

Somehow I missed that this was happening. I remember wanting to read it when it was nominated for a group read and didn't make it. I've got it on hold from my digital library, but hold time is 10 days. Sometimes people return them earlier, so I will try to jump in when I can.

Let me just recommend against reading Sea of Rust at the same time as this one. The bots are too similar and I'm getting confused.

I started it yesterday.

Ariana wrote: "Let me just recommend against reading Sea of Rust at the same time as this one. The bots are too similar and I'm getting confused."

Ha, good to know! I guess I'll see whether reading one right after the other yields interference or synergy.

I started (last week!) and felt pulled into both storylines right away.

18%

I liked the worldbuilding, although the eroding nationstates scheme is still derivative. Special economic zones were the form we have here. So I was musing which former countries/current SEZs were in the Asian Union, for instance.

(view spoiler)[
I am enjoying the angle of corporate takeover is coming from the super powerful pharma companies (they are already very powerful nowadays), in which advanced pharma products can bring longer life and nearly permanent youth, but harshly enforced patents just made class division even worse since only the wealthy could afford those products. (hide spoiler)]

And the slavery thing, interesting and uncomfortable.

About the AI, I want to know more about the 'autonomous' thing (view spoiler)[and how exactly they could get emancipation. (hide spoiler)]

How about you guys? Any intriguing details so far?

I'm at about 15%. It's not quite what I expected. Not necessarily a bad thing- I just have to get over first before I can really settle in and appreciate it.

(view spoiler)[I'm also enjoying the big pharma takeovers. Correct me if I misunderstood- but it seems like Paladin and Eliasz might work/be enslaved by a sort of government association that takes their orders directly from those kinds of companies? Or are they privately funded? I guess that could go either way. Just with the mission objectives and meetings and such it felt government to me. (hide spoiler)]

Sarah wrote: "I'm at about 15%. It's not quite what I expected. Not necessarily a bad thing- I just have to get over first before I can really settle in and appreciate it.

[spoilers removed]"

I'm at 18%. (view spoiler)[So the people who gave Paladin and Eliasz their mission (to track down Jack) were from the International Property Coalition (IPC). This has the ring of a governmental/law enforcement agency, but for all we know at this point it could be a for profit operation hired by big pharma. (hide spoiler)]

Ariana wrote: "Sarah wrote: "I'm at about 15%. It's not quite what I expected. Not necessarily a bad thing- I just have to get over first before I can really settle in and appreciate it.

[spoilers removed]"

I'm..."

Right- thank you! Couldn't remember the name. I re-read the blurb and they definitely say (view spoiler)[military. Which sort of makes everything much more interesting- is this implying that big pharma is not just super powerful but running the government? This is an actual legitimate fear of mine. Nice to see it brought up like this somewhere. Curious to see where she takes it. (hide spoiler)]

17%
Okay, the recycling of (view spoiler)[dead people's body appearance based on their Facebook pages (hide spoiler)] freaking me out.

Also the windows fused with plant thing is so cool. I like the tidbit of tech in this book.

20%

(view spoiler)[Even military and police are indentured to the economic zone. (hide spoiler)]

26%
Threezed's backstory
(view spoiler)[there are indenture schools? Wow. (hide spoiler)]

33%
Med (view spoiler)[is now in the team? That was really quick. She came out of nowhere, almost. (hide spoiler)]

Paladin and Eliasz (view spoiler)[I was grossed out at the start when Eliasz got a boner during their training. It is like watching Poe Dameron wanting to have sex with BB-8 or something. But, at the end I was just amused with Eliasz's clear insecurity around the bot. (hide spoiler)]

Silvana, I hear you about Paladin/Eliasz!

pg. 53.

(view spoiler)[Is anyone else totally squicked out by the Jack and Threezed romance? She knows he was probably trained as a child to provide sex, and while she thinks it's depressing, she's not deterred in pursuing a sexual relationship.

“Are you sure?” she asked. He bowed his head in an ambiguous gesture of obedience and consent.

Ugh. Really not a fan of consent being ambiguous in anyway.
(hide spoiler)]

I'd have to say I agree with you Ariana I wasn't excited to see that bit play out.

Ariana wrote: "pg. 53. .."

I was going to comment on this too. Not cool.

20%
(view spoiler)[I did find Jack’s take on romance a little refreshing though. I can’t recall that I’ve ever seen it in a book. The idea that love is not “real” it’s a chemical reaction. (hide spoiler)]

Sarah wrote: "Ariana wrote: "pg. 53. .."

I was going to comment on this too. Not cool."

p. 89

(view spoiler)[After getting to the part with Mali being rude to her indentured nanny, I think that the author is making a point about how these characters (including our hero) who are very "forward-thinking" in terms of patent reform and fighting big pharma for very noble reasons still have a huge blind spot when it comes to treating indentured people like actual people. Exactly how that fits in with the rest of the narrative remains (for me) to be seen. (hide spoiler)]

I love your analysis, Ariana. It showed a flaw in her character that I think would serve the plot in a later stage.

And yes, I did feel icky about it, glad you guys brought that up. This novel is teeming with unsettling sexual relationship and I am just past the 40% point.

Still loving all the worldbuilding stuff.

Sarah wrote: "Ariana wrote: "pg. 53. .."

I was going to comment on this too. Not cool.

20%
[spoilers removed]"

I highlighted the part when she described love - surely will come in handy in the future LOL

Ariana wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Ariana wrote: "pg. 53. .."

I was going to comment on this too. Not cool."

p. 89

[spoilers removed]"

That whole scene is odd and really makes no sense. (view spoiler)[Mali is not only rude to her indentured servant but the fact that she has one doesn’t quite add up. While Jack is talking to her she says something along the lines of: Mali couldn’t resist the story of the boy who was indentured as a school boy and had his contract sold...

What makes Threezed any different from the nanny?! Why would Mali feel sympathy for him and not her? I agree the author is trying to make a point, I just hope she actually makes it at some point. Aside from the obvious: slavery is bad. (hide spoiler)]

Thinking about it, I’m wondering if the point is:

(view spoiler)[Mali and Jack are/were trying to be heroes for the people, they see the injustice of the patents and work to correct it, but are so ingrained in this pre-existing system where indentured servitude is totally normal that they are totally blind to why this is a bad thing? (hide spoiler)]

Sarah wrote: "Thinking about it, I’m wondering if the point is:

[spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[Yeah, I agree, that's probably what the author is getting at. But it definitely could have been finessed a bit more, maybe?
(hide spoiler)]

Ch. 9

(view spoiler)[ So I'm getting a little annoyed. It seems awfully convenient that Threezed ran into Med, like, an hour after starting his new job? Unless it's a set up, somehow, which I don't think we have any indication of, this is just a little too much for me.

Somehow, Threezed had found the perfect researcher to work with Jack on a therapy.

You don't say.

Also mildly annoyed at how bitter Jack still is at Krish for not wanting to be an outlaw and fighting for patent reform in other ways. It just feels immature to me. Not a good look for you, Jack.
(hide spoiler)]

p. 128

(view spoiler)[HAH! Even the bots are on drugs. (hide spoiler)]

52% or page 163
(view spoiler)[It is strange that Eliasz actually felt more guilty for wanting to have sex with an assumed MALE bot and not because of the human-bot relationship. Society did not change, huh.... (hide spoiler)]
So among all things, homosexuality is still shunned in that point in time?

64% or page 200
And of course (view spoiler)[he was so happy knowing Paladin had a female brain LOL. I pity the bot somehow.

I guess both our MCs did have an awkward and unbalanced relationship. (hide spoiler)]

85% or page 259
Alright. We finally got the explanation on Eliasz behavior. And I like the unraveling of Threezed's character too. That explains his stuff with Jack.

Well, I finished. 4.5 stars. This book makes me think. The ending was rather neat, Newitz pulled everything together and provided sufficient explanation on the characters actions.

The worldbuilding and the fact that there are many juxtapositions of gender and power, this book will remain memorable to me for a long time.

June has been great to me, first The Moon and the Other, and now this.

(view spoiler)[I enjoyed the book. The plot was simple yet well-executed. The characters were believable and gave insight into the world.

Though we are clearly meant to root for Jack and her friends, Paladin and Eliasz are not evil villains. Once they buy their way out of IPC, they seem to leave the system and its values behind. Which may or may not be realistic, but I can believe that they want a fresh start.

I like the contrast between Paladin and Med. Med has the ideal situation for a bot. Not only is she autonomous, but she looks human, was raised with humans, and is comfortable with both humans and bots. Paladin doesn't know enough to be envious, but we readers can understand how privileged and lucky Med is.

Eliasz being bot-sexual is interesting. The whole "faggot" thing was more or less a red herring. Paladin deciding to present as female makes Eliasz a little more comfortable, but I don't think that deep down, gender matters much to Eliasz. He is attracted to the kind of strong, shiny, and simple that only bots can be. (hide spoiler)]

Chris wrote: "I enjoyed the book."

(view spoiler)[Good points.

I also liked the contrast between Med and Threezed. An autonomous bot vs. an indentured human. I liked it when Threezed was jealous of Med's privileged life.

She could make another novel just based on that premise but she managed to include evil pharma corps and patent activism in one book. And this book is only 300 pages. That itself is an achievement. (hide spoiler)]

So... this book is great at making the reader really uncomfortable.

Silvana wrote: "52% or page 163
[spoilers removed]

I’ve been thinking the same thing!! (view spoiler)[Eliasz is worried about the perception that he is gay, yet not at all worried about how people would perceive his relationship with a bot which is not only a bot but a bot without any anatomy at all? I can’t even really wrap my head around how this would work... I’m guessing that’s where the penis dealer will come in eventually... (hide spoiler)]

Exactly my thoughts. Though I tend to like books that test my limit of discomfort...

I finished this!

(view spoiler)[I liked this a lot by the end, but I had a hard time getting into it. It's hard to put my finger on exactly, but something about it made it really hard for me to suspend my disbelief, so I couldn't let myself get immersed in the story. Certain plot points felt a little too convenient, some of the world-building details didn't feel totally consistent, some character choices seemed unmotivated.
Maybe it's just a first novel thing?

But like I say, by the end I was able to let go and let the story take me along.

The part I found most interesting was with Paladin and her autonomy key, and what it felt like to become more that just a "user of [her] own consciousness."
(hide spoiler)]

Great! Good point about the autonomy key.
I wish you enjoyed this better but I am glad you finally got the groove at the end.

I cant wait for Newitz's next work. I understand that she is scientist herself and hopefully she writes more cyberpunk like this. After Altered Carbon and this I seem to be liking the subgenre more.

I am just happy that the book is pretty straightforward and only a few pages more than 300. Really, nowadays you gotta find a novella instead if you want to a shorter work.

Silvana wrote: "I can't wait for Newitz's next work."

Yes! I would definitely read what she writes next.

Silvana wrote: "I am just happy that the book is pretty straightforward and only a few pages more than 300. Really, nowadays you gotta find a novella instead if you want to a shorter work."

Yes, I totally agree. It does pack a lot of ideas into a neat little package. After reflecting a bit I'm feeling more charitable. There were a lot of things I liked. Maybe my expectations were just too high to start out?

(view spoiler)[For instance, I thought the bits about Paladin's gender kind of intriguing, in particular the part where she lets Eliasz call her "she" because it makes him more comfortable. I would suspect that this is not uncommon for non-binary folks, letting oneself be miscategorized for the comfort of a partner.

I also thought it was interesting how both Jack and Eliasz are trying to do the right by their indentured lovers (Threezed, Paladin), but are still kind of clueless when it comes to the realities of the indenture system. (hide spoiler)]