VICTOBER 2025 discussion

So we'll use this thread to run the readalong and discuss Wives and Daughters.

The book has 60 chapters, so the aim is to read 2 chapters a day from the 1st to 31st of October.

Obviously feel free to read at your own pace if you'd like, but if you are ahead of the set schedule, do please avoid spoilers on this thread.

Happy reading!

A-ha I was just about to ask if there was a separate thread for the wives and daughters readalong and low and behold I've just found it. I might be taking on more than I can chew but I've convinced myself I can manage 2 chapters a day as well as all the other bricks I've decided to tackle this month. Excited for the challenge though! Xx

I’ve actually already started this book and I’m absolutely loving it! Don’t worry, I won’t spoil anything. I can’t wait to participate in the discussion.

Are we free to discuss each day's set of chapters even if spoilers are included for said chapters?

Not that I'm planning to, just curious :P

I started reading it . So excited !

Yep, I think it's fair to discuss each day's chapters with spoilers - avoid the board if you're behind, and please don't spoil anything if you're ahead of schedule!

I would like to join sometime this month too.

Just finished the first two chapters. I'm really enjoying it so far, I think I might have read it before, years ago. Bits of it definitely seem familiar.

Happy Victober to all! Wives and Daughters is turning out to be just a delight. The only other Gaskell I've read is Cranford, and that was years ago. It is so delightful the way Gaskell skewers some of her characters with a little poke here and there. The inhabitants of Hollingford are also victims of Gaskell's subtle mocking. I love this bit on the second page of chapter one:

...where lived my Lord and Lady Cumnor: 'the earl' and 'the countess', as they were always called by the inhabitants of the town; where a very pretty amount of feudal feeling still lingered, and showed itself in a number of simple ways, droll enough to look back upon, but serious matters of importance at the time."

That phrase "a very pretty amount of feudal feeling" seems so wry to me. Gaskell then goes on to draw a picture of the hypocrisy of the "liberal-talking" inhabitants of the town. As an American, I had to look up the Reform Bill. If I'm correct, the Reform Bill Gaskell is referring to is from 1832, so this story takes place before then. I had assumed that this story was set in the 1860s. That helped inform my reading of the political setting and why the "liberal" folks in Hollingford still voted for a Cumnor.

"...their fathers' grandfathers had always voted for the eldest son of Cumnor Towers, and following in the ancestral track, every man-jack in the place gave his vote to the liege lord, totally irrespective of such chimeras as political opinion."

Gaskell is able to give us a rich view of the residents of Hollingford, and the tone of the times in one paragraph. She writes about the Cumnors, "They expected to be submitted to and obeyed", and tells us "the various unoccupied gentlewomen of the town responded to the call of their liege lady." I'm so enjoying Gaskell's skill at painting a picture of her characters.

Just started Wives and Daughters and am enjoying it so far!

I'm almost done with our two chapters for today, and so far I adore it. I think it's going to become one of my favorites.

I’m with April! Loved the first two chapters and Gaskell’s wit and wry humor. One of my favorite scenes was in chapter two when Clare brings Molly a tray of food and ends up eating it herself while Molly observes her:

“She was so pretty and so graceful in her deep mourning, that even her hurry in eating, as if she was afraid of some one coming to surprise her in the act, did not keep her little observer from admiring her in all she did.”

From the brief interaction between Clare and Molly in this chapter, some of Clare’s qualities are already beginning to emerge and I can’t wait to read on and see how Gaskell develops the characters.

Antia it reminds me of Northanger Abbey somehow!
I just...can't believe she ate all of Mollys food. lol

Maybe I am just sensitive when it comes to sharing food but I already dislike Clare with a passion! :-D

^ same! She's fun to hate on. lol

Happy Victober friends! I’m adoring Wives and Daughters, its my first Gaskell but I will definitely be reading all her works after this strong start!

I was struck even on the first page of this book by how good a story teller Gaskell is. By focusing just on Molly’s bedroom furniture and the bonnet on the stand at the end of her bed we’re already given so much context for her life. The dimity bed, the “primitive” bonnet stand with a “heavy” handkerchief laid carefully over the bonnet to preserve it (which is suitable given how solid the bonnet is, which Molly knows being the one to have laboured over it), and the little blue bow which is “the first bit of such finery Molly ever had the prospect of wearing”. Through little Molly’s excited eyes we’re given an idea of her family’s wealth and social standing, and the routine of her days with Betty the “unseen power” in the next room.

I also loved how real her characters seem, how well rounded and genuine they are. Gaskell did an excellent job of capturing the emotional distress of a child being left in an unfamiliar place, down to feeling too exposed to be able to cross a room and say goodbye to Lady Cumnor. Lord Cumnor is so jovial and garrulous he doesn’t realise his jokes are upsetting the little girl – I’m not sure about anyone else but this resonated with some of the grandfathers I’ve known in my life :P

The sweetest part of Molly’s life is obviously her relationship with her father. I couldn’t help but smile at the glimpses we get of Dr Gibson’s love for his daughter – his nickname for her of “goosey”, his willingness to let Molly accept Lord Cumnor’s invitation even if he thinks it will be a tedious day, taking time out to ride over to the Towers to have Molly’s invitation to the gala-day “ratified” by Lady Cumnor, arranging for the Miss Brownings to keep watch over her. But most especially (though he kept this quiet) his racing out from his home after his long rounds on learning Molly hasn’t come home, not even bothering to stop to collect Molly’s riding skirt even though he was only “ten yards from his own stable door”. Dr Gibson has his faults, but clearly adoring his daughter isn’t one of them.

Apropos of April’s comment above, about Gaskell’s wry observations of her characters – I laughed when we were given Lady Cumnor’s pronunciation of “chawyot” and Lady “Hawyot”.

I started this last night and I found it so hard to read at first, I was like, "why do so many people love this?" Then I realized I had a fever! Definitely not Gaskell's fault! I reread the first two chapters today and loved them, super readable and funny. So looking forward to the rest of it! Poor little Molly!

Gaskell is so witty! I’m loving how it is not dry at all and moves along so easily.

It has been eight years since I read W&D. Enjoying the reread so far. Hope the group read will encourage me to a closer reading.

Did EG intend to be symbolic with young Molly eating fruit in the garden? Have not thought of her as an author prone to symbolism. Anybody have an opinion on this?

Antía wrote: "ha I dislike Clare too.. but I admit I'm starting to have fun hating her"

I so agree!

Toni mentions the story about Clare eating all of Molly's food. That is such a strange scene. I think Clare also shows her true colors when she forgets that Molly is upstairs sleeping on her bed. She appears to be kind and thoughtful when she brings Molly food and again when she offers to take Molly to her own room to rest on her bed for an hour or two, but then she eats all the food herself and completely forgets that Molly is asleep causing Molly to miss her ride home.

I think Laura's comment about some grandfathers is spot on. I remember feeling like Molly at times in my own life.

I have a question about a scene in chapter two. On page seven (Penguin English Classics edition), Mr. Gibson goes to the Towers to have the invitation ratified. He goes hoping to speak with Lady Cumnor. "He saw his patient, gave his directions to the housekeeper, and then went out, with a rare wild-flower in his hand, to find one of the Ladies Tranmere in the garden". Why is Lady Agnes called Lady Tranmere? Is this a bit of foreshadowing about a relationship between Mr. Gibson and Lady Agnes, or is Mr. Gibson just using the flower as an excuse to speak with Lady Cumnor?

Samantha, I hope your fever is gone, and you're feeling better today.

I hope it’s ok to reference chapter four since it’s day two. Does anyone know what this means?

“...Roger Hamley, who at present lived and reigned at Hamley, had not received so good an education as he ought to have done. His father, Squire Stephen, had been plucked at Oxford, and with stubborn pride, he had refused to go up again.”

Plucked? I can’t find a definition that makes sense in this context. Apparently it was pretty bad if he swore an oath that none of his descendants would go to University!

Lindsaygail wrote: "I hope it’s ok to reference chapter four since it’s day two. Does anyone know what this means?

“...Roger Hamley, who at present lived and reigned at Hamley, had not received so good an education a..."

Hi Lindsaygail!

My Barnes and Noble Classics edition notes "plucked" in this context as "slang for having been failed in the final examinations."

Thank you!

Hello, all, I'm loving dear little Molly and the narrator's voice. I am sensing that many of us have mixed feelings thus far about Clare? I feel from the early chapters that she's not disingenuous on purpose, but her priorities lie far away from Molly's, as is expected. She is caring and nurturing, but her social needs don't correspond with Molly's. We're supposed to be annoyed by Clare's behavior and its impact on Molly, but I find it pretty believable for her liminal place within that household.

Anonymouse wrote: "It has been eight years since I read W&D. Enjoying the reread so far. Hope the group read will encourage me to a closer reading.

Did EG intend to be symbolic with young Molly eating fruit in the g..."

I wasn't thinking of the scene as Edenic when I read it, but you're right - the connotation is there. I wonder, then, if Clare is the serpent? Perhaps that's a bit of a stretch... She doesn't exactly tempt Molly. In fact, Molly seems pretty indifferent to the fanfare of the Towers once she's there. She mentions to her father on the ride home that found the gardens beautiful, but nothing else about the place impresses her. That said, in ch. 3 we learn that her father has placed pretty severe limitations on her education. That seems like asking for trouble to me... Molly's bound to stumble upon the curse of knowledge before long!

Despite Mr. Gibson's concern that Molly would be overeducated, she does have the run of his library . . .

"For his station in life, Mr. Gibson had an unusually good library; the medical portion of it was inaccesssible to Molly, being kept in the surgery, but every other book she had either read, or tried to read."

So alongside her other "approved" lessons Molly has also been an autodidact.

In chapter four Mr. Gibson is relenting about letting Molly visit Mrs. Hamley who "was a great reader, and had considerable literary taste."

Prospects of a wider range of reading material await our young heroine!

I love Mr. Gibson's humour. I didn't expect this to be so funny.

I am so enjoying hearing everybody's thoughts on this. I'm up to chapter eight and loving it. This is my third read and it's so enjoyable - I love Molly's relationship with her father.

Lindsaygail wrote: "I hope it’s ok to reference chapter four since it’s day two. Does anyone know what this means?

“...Roger Hamley, who at present lived and reigned at Hamley, had not received so good an education as he ought to have done. His father, Squire Stephen, had been plucked at Oxford, and with stubborn pride, he had refused to go up again..."

I'm not 100% sure, but I think it means he failed his examinations at the university.

I'm just starting! Was planning to use the audiobook and a physical copy at the same time, but after ten minutes I've concluded that that's too distracting so I'll probably do physical-only, or alternate.

Finished chapter 4 and so far am greatly enjoying the book. Liking the oh-so-Victorian subtle snarkiness of the narrator.

Antía wrote: "Maybe it's just because I know of Gaskell and Charlotte Brontë's friendship but is the fact of Molly's governess called Miss Eyre a reference? I thought maybe it was an inside joke."

I assumed it was a little homage, yeah. Very sweet if so.

Chapter five:

I love the title of this chapter--Calf Love. As Antia said above, "Poor Mr. Coxe." Mr. Gibson's letter to Mr. Coxe addressed to "Master Coxe" and written in Latin is hysterical and condescending.

Who is this Jeanie that Mr. Gibson refers to twice in this chapter? Is this Mr. Gibson's first love? I hope time will tell.

Antía wrote: "(comment from chapter 5)
poor Mr Coxe! I found his conversation with Mr Gibson hillarious - the comment on Molly wearing bue spectacles made me giggle at loud.

Maybe it's just because I know of ..."

Ooh i hope it is!

This book just gives me so many warm fuzzies! Mr. Gibson is such an overprotective daddy. It's adorable and maddening all at the same time.

Is anyone else falling slightly in love with Mr Gibson? Not only is he witty, loves his daughter desperately, isn’t impressed by title or money and has a Scotch accent, but the way he’s described makes him sound rather dashing and mysterious looking.

Jo wrote: "Is anyone else falling slightly in love with Mr Gibson? Not only is he witty, loves his daughter desperately, isn’t impressed by title or money and has a Scotch accent, but the way he’s described m..."

Yes! Me too! I listened to the audiobook version and I looooved the accent.

Jo wrote: "Is anyone else falling slightly in love with Mr Gibson? Not only is he witty, loves his daughter desperately, isn’t impressed by title or money and has a Scotch accent, but the way he’s described m..."

I agree, Mr Gibson is a very lovable guy. His dry sense of humour is so enjoyable as well, I love his comradeship with Molly. But like seemingly all of Gaskell's characters in this book he has his flaws, and incorrect opinions (for example his ridiculous idea to always be keeping Molly in the dark about this plans, and his preference to not talk about emotional troubles and keep things bottled up). But this only serves to make him more realized - like a real person instead of just a character. I'm loving that about her writing. So funny how the Hollingford people all think his father must have been a Duke :P

Hands down though the dear old Squire is the best person in this story, he's so lovable and silly, even his temper tantrums and 'indelicate' talk is endearing.

Laura wrote: "Hands down though the dear old Squire is the best person in this story, he's so lovable and silly, even his temper tantrums and 'indelicate' talk is endearing."

Absolutely! Squire Hamley is my favourite!

I have mixed feelings about Mr Gibson. He's lovely but also really annoying cause he's so protective of Molly!

I’m through Chapter 8 and like you all am really loving this book for the characters and the wit. It definitely reminds me of Austen and also of Middlemarch.

One thing that is slightly irritating me... does anyone else find Molly a bit too innocent for 17. The way she acts about her father reads as much younger to me. This may be my bias showing as I am currently living with my 17 year old daughter! 😂

Heidi wrote: "I’m through Chapter 8 and like you all am really loving this book for the characters and the wit. It definitely reminds me of Austen and also of Middlemarch.

One thing that is slightly irritating..."

Molly has led a very sheltered life.

"During this absence of hers Mr. Gibson was drifting into matrimony."

It's like a horror story. We are given a glimpse of the monster and are aware that it is approaching . . . inexorably!

Elaine wrote: "I have mixed feelings about Mr Gibson. He's lovely but also really annoying cause he's so protective of Molly!"

I think his over protection has to do with the “Jenny” he keeps referring. She may have found herself in a situation he’d liked his own daughter avoid.

About the Hamleys: “ I sometimes have thought of the late that we’ve almost done that good Roger an injustice. Ya think? It seems that precious Osborne likes women and gambling because where else would all that money go? Hmm...

I like Clare being compared to a monster @Anonymouse :) and having finished chapter 8 (I am trying to refrain from reading ahead!) I am curious to learn more about Roger- who I am expecting to be my new favourite.

I've read slightly ahead (finished chapter 9). I'm also looking forward to meeting Roger - a poet and natural historian? Be still my heart! 💗

I got a bit behind, but I'm getting back on schedule now!
(The baby was fussy)
Im wrapping up chapter six now, and continuing on! I love this book....the characters already seem real. Mr Gibson especially feels like a real person.

So now that we're up to chapter 10 - I realise gender and family roles were very different in the 19th century - but really would it have been so very shocking for Dr Gibson to actually ASK Molly what she thinks of this radical upheaval to her life before going ahead and irreversibly arranging the marriage? Especially since its all for her benefit. And then when she feels understandably betrayed and hurt at all this being done behind her back, he doesn't even allow her to express that hurt, just gets on his horse and leaves.

So she's left to come to terms with this on her own at Hamley Hall (aside from Roger's advice) and then Dr Gibson comes back and "stops her from speaking out her regret" and only says "there there, that will do" and 'by the way I want you to go the Towers and meet my fiance'. And sweet little Molly just resolves to herself to try and do better!

.....epic fail on Dr Gibson's part, as a friend and a father. I understand his motives in wanting her to have a mother and 'female guidance' in this society, but I can't understand the emotional tyranny.

I agree it’s not what we’d call great parenting or friendship, but I think it’s probably typical of the culture. I’m sure he views Molly as a little girl who has no idea what’s best and needs his total control to “protect” her. Probably he sees that as his fatherly duty. It frustrates me too, thinking how hard this is on Molly.

A side note to those who liking the squire, I’m with you. He reminds me just a bit of Sir John Middleton in Sense and Sensibility, and as a result, I’m mentally picturing him as the actor Robert Hardy.

“So hey, I haven’t seen you in 5 years, whereupon you took the food off my hungry daughter’s plate and forgot you left her sleeping in a strange house, but let’s get married. Afterall we’ve only been talking for about 15 minutes. Oh, tell me your name again.”

Sheesh.