Underground Knowledge — A discussion group discussion

The ‘Seven Mountains’ prophecy https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/rea...
There’s a plan to seize control of every aspect of the US; government, law and media. And it’s based on the bible’s Book of Revelation.

The Dark Ages have a certain appeal to some. It was a time when good and evil was white and black. Church overruled state. And the word of priests was as law.

It was when the Roman Catholic church effectively ruled the whole of the Western world. Under idealised eyes, it controlled every aspect of civil life. Parish priests held sway over small towns and communities. Cardinals and Popes could bend kings and nobles to their will.

In reality, things rarely worked out that way. But it was the accepted doctrine of the times.

Now, some evangelical groups want that all-encompassing power back.

They call themselves Dominionists.

Their declared goal is to take control of society. And the US government is in its sights.

It wants ‘One nation, under God’ … their god.

Only once this is achieved, followers believe, will Jesus return in the Second Coming, initiating the End of Days and the prophecies of the Book of Revelation.

It’s a cross-denominational movement which appears to have been born among television and radio evangelists in the 1970s. They cite one passage, Genesis 1:28, as justification:

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

It is interpreted as being God’s mandate for his followers to control every aspect of life.

Now new apostles are preaching a message which puts church above state, and their interpretation of Christian lore above secular law.

And they have a plan to have this enforced.

EVEN HEADS ARE SEVEN MOUNTAINS

The argument goes something like this:

The long-awaited Second Coming has not yet happened as the criteria outlined in the Bible have yet to be met. Christians have not been taking part in their communities. Instead, they’ve been huddled in their own churches. This has exposed the very pillars of society susceptible to the influence of the devil.

It’s up to believers to change this, they argue, by seizing control of key institutions.

Some evangelical movements believe this is demanded by prophecy. They argue the Bible verses of Isiah 2:2-3 instruct their followers to take control:

And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord’s house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Many people shall come and say, “Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,

To the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, And we shall walk in His paths.”

It argues there are seven such ‘mountains of the Lord’.

The key to this thinking is Revelation 17:1-18, which hinges on verse 9:

And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains

The prophetic passage talks of an evil woman ‘drunken with the blood of the saints’ who rides a beast of ‘seven heads and 10 horns’. It ends telling how this beast will be turned against the woman, destroying her.

Most theologians see the reference to ‘seven’ as being Rome — famously built upon seven hills

But some evangelicals argue this beast — and its seven heads that are mountains — represents the structure of society itself.

“So this is now called the Seven Mountain Prophecy,” says advocate David Barton. “If you’re going to establish God’s kingdom, you’ve got to have these seven mountains, and again that’s family, religion, education, media, entertainment, business and government.”

RELIGION: “With a plethora of categorised religions around the world, it’s the Church’s responsibility to reach the lost with the love and Gospel of Jesus Christ, and expand the Kingdom in ministerial efforts, both nationally and internationally.”

FAMILY: “God is calling fathers and mothers (both spiritual and biological) to bring order to the chaos that the enemy has unleashed against families in America.”

EDUCATION: “A reintroduction of biblical truth and Bible-centric values is the key to renewal and restoration in America’s failing educational system.”

GOVERNMENT: “We must see a shift in this arena in order to preserve the Christian heritage that America was founded upon. The goal is to put in place righteous political leaders that will positively affect all aspects of government.”

MEDIA: “ … the arts and entertainment industries wield significant influence. The body of Christ needs powerful, righteous men and women who are not afraid to take their God-given talent into the arts and entertainment arenas.”

BUSINESS: “We believe it is the Lord’s will to make his people prosperous and that He desires for His Church to use its wealth to finance the work of Kingdom expansion. Simply put: Prosperity with a purpose.”

SEVEN MOUNTAINS MANDATE

White Christian evangelicals in the United States remain a powerful voting bloc. Though they are a diminishing group.

In the 1990s, they represented about 27 per cent of the total US population, Now, they amount to some 15 per cent.

And that loss of prominence has proved galvanising.

Dominionist thinking is becoming mainstream among this minority group, and Seven Mountains is regarded by many as a road-map to ‘regain’ control of the country.

The idea first emerged In 1975 when Bill Bright, founder of Campus Crusade, and Loren Cunningham, founder of Youth With a Mission (YWAM), had what they describe as a miraculous revelation. Both had been given a dream by God, they declared. Its message revealed the need to dominate the Seven Mountains (or Spheres) of influence.

Since then, the theology has been pushed into political circles through media events, youth movements and campaign activities.

Central to its teachings is that members must build the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth. And that starts with turning the United States into a Christian state.

The movement first met with some sympathy under the Presidency of Ronald Reagan.

At the 1980 Republican National Convention, attended by some 17,000 evangelical Christians, Ronald Reagan famously declared: “I know you can’t endorse me, but … I want you to know I endorse you and what you are doing.”

Reagan won in a landslide, primarily attributed to a ‘Moral Majority’. And his governance has since been called ‘the God strategy’ after evangelicals were appointed as Secretary of the Interior, Surgeon General and to the Department of Education.

But, under the Bush Republican presidencies, evangelical influence waned.

The Seven Mountains movement’s leaders felt they had been betrayed. Despite encouraging words during their campaigns, Presidents George H. Bush and George W. Bush just did not follow up with the desired appointments.

President Trump, however, represents a new opportunity: an opportunity that has been delivering.

THE KING CYRUS FACTOR

The Seven Mountains movement experienced something of a revival in the early 2000s under evangelist Lance P. Wallnau and political activist David Barton.

Wallnau is one of the theology’s most vocal prophets. He is a forceful advocate of the need to ‘go and make disciples of all nations’.

But, now that only a few remote tribes in South America’s Amazon and the Bay of Bengal’s the Andaman Islands have not been ministered to, Wallnau is endorsing a broader interpretation of the passage. He sees it as an instruction to inject his version of Christianity into the way societies are run.

And President Trump is the vessel for such change.

Wallnau has declared Trump has a ‘Cyrus anointing’ upon him — a reference to the ancient Persian King Cyrus who, despite being no friend of Israel, defeated the Babylonians and set that nation free. Cyrus was therefore blessed by God for doing his work.

In the modern context, the ‘anointing’ of Trump means evangelical Christians can also set their religion ‘free’.

To that end, Wallnau boasted to fellow evangelical leader David Barton that he had ‘ninja sheep’ working with activists, politicians — and members of Donald Trump’s presidential transition team.

OF ‘NINJA SHEEP’ AND ‘UNDERGROUND’ AGENTS

Wallnau asserts Satan is in control of academia, entertainment, politics and business: “Our real enemies are the ones that are shaping laws, shaping media, and shaping the next generation.”

To fight them, he’s promoting what he calls the ‘7M Underground’ — an affiliation of producers, directors, attorneys, politicians and economists.

“We should be moving to the top of these mountains,” Wallnau said. “Christians are called to go into proximity to the gates of hell. That’s why they’re showing up in government. They should be showing up in journalism …

“I’m working with believers that I call ninja sheep — those are believers that are actual believers but have to maintain discretion with their public profile.

“And what we want to do is we want to reinstall a culture that honours God and that revives again a morality that’s essential to the survival of America as a Christian-influenced nation.

“So the underground is where we meet and we basically have now mobilised nationwide believers to intercede pray and be informed and then show up at the decisive flashpoints in culture where there can be a presence behind what Trump’s assignment is. So it’s pretty exciting.”

Barton seized upon the Seven Mountains as the logical outcome of his controversial (but incorrect) belief that the Founding Fathers of the United States were all born-again Christians. This means, he says, that the Constitution should be interpreted through Christian — not secular — eyes. This can be done through the Seven Mountains.

“ … those are the seven areas you have to have, and if you can have those seven areas, you can shape and control whatever takes place in nations, continents, and even the world,” Barton said in a 2011 radio interview. “Now that’s what we believed all along is you got to get involved in this stuff. Jesus said ‘you occupy ‘til I come.’ We don’t care when he comes, that’s up to him. What we’re supposed to do is take the culture in the meantime, and you got to get involved in these seven areas.”

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/rea...

PART TWO OF ARTICLE ABOVE: https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/rea...

‘TAKE BACK THE COUNTRY FOR CHRIST’

Separation of Church and State is enshrined in the US Constitution. Though this has always been an intense arena of dispute.

It’s intended to prevent the repeat of the crises many fled during the founding of the United States: combinations of individual churches and states that oppressed other faiths.

The Constitution itself specifies “no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States”.

The First Amendment reads: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof …”

Seven Mountains and Dominionist evangelicals don’t see this as a problem. The United States is a Christian country, founded by Christians, they argue, so the Constitution should be interpreted through a Christian perspective. The Country’s motto is ‘In God We Trust’, after all.

“We realised that it only takes 3-5 per cent of a leadership operating at the top of a cultural mountain to shift the culture’s view of an issue,” the promotional page of an upcoming 7 Mountains ‘International Culture Shapers Summit’ declares. http://www.7culturalmountains.org/

Under Trump, they’ve been getting more than that.

His Vice President, Michael Pence, is an outspoken evangelical. The former conservative talkback radio host has even been declared a ‘covenant man’ — putting him alongside the likes of Moses, Jacob and Noah — for his apparent obedience to God in a corrupt and sinful political arena.

Trump’s new Attorney-General, Matthew Whitaker, once proposed banning non-religious people from being appointed to the judiciary. He also said judges needed a ‘biblical view of justice’: “What I know is that as long as they have that worldview, that they’ll be a good judge. And if they have a secular worldview, that ‘this is all we have here on Earth’, then I’m going to be very concerned about how they judge.”

The President regularly trumpets the Christian character of his cabinet.

His first Chief-of-Staff, the since-sacked Reince Priebus, was a devout member of the Greek Orthodox Church. Ousted Adviser Steve Bannon came from an Irish-Catholic background, as did disgraced National Security chief General Michael Flynn. Former Attorney-General Jeff Sessions is a Methodist, while Secretary of State Mike Pompeo is Presbyterian. Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos belongs to the Christian Reformed denomination. Former Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley was born into a Sikh family but converted to Christianity and now attends a Methodist congregation.

That’s just a sampler.

But Trump’s even given an evangelical group open access to the White House — Capitol Ministries — to conduct bible study groups.

This is why — despite the never-ending cloud of controversy surrounding the president — his support among evangelical leaders has remained steadfast.

KINGDOM OF HEAVEN

Charismatic, Pentecostal and Evangelical Christians are among President Trump’s most devoted supporters. And he knows this.

He won 81 per cent of their vote in 2016. A poll published shortly before the 2018 midterm elections by the Public Religion Research Institute found that 72 per cent of white evangelical Protestants still had a favourable opinion of him.

And Trump continues to tell them what they want to hear.

In a closed-door meeting with more than 100 evangelical leaders in August, President Trump said he had repealed a law preventing them from preaching politics from the pulpit. He hadn’t, though it is something he sometimes talks about.

He also said he had dismissed a law that prevents US religious and other tax-exempt institutions from endorsing political candidates. He hadn’t, though he has signed an executive order smoothing the way for religious groups to engage in politics.

It was enough to motivate the religiously conservative groups focused on abortion rights, a conservative majority in the Supreme Court, and support for Israel, to back his midterm election campaigns.

But US progressive churchgoers are increasingly bristling at Trump’s brash character, and divisive approach to race, immigration and women.

They’ve started to push back.

Among those raising their voice in opposition is Anglican bishop Michael Curry, who officiated at Prince Harry and Meghan Markle’s wedding. He’s pushing a manifesto — Reclaiming Jesus — and warning of a “dangerous crisis of moral and political leadership at the highest levels of our government and in our churches”.

The manifesto rejects white nationalism, calls out political exploitation of racial bigotry, denounces misogyny and sexual misconduct, defends immigrants and refugees — and advocates renewed focus on the poor.

“Representatives of Christianity were buying into political agendas that very often do not reflect the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth,” Bishop Curry said.

But the religious right is showing little sign of being moved.

And Trump’s keen to keep them on side.

Elections, he warned, were “a referendum on your religion, it’s a referendum on free speech and the First Amendment.”

“We’re going to protect Christianity,” Trump declared. “I can say that. I don’t have to be politically correct.”

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P.S. I had to laugh at the reference to "Underground agents" in the article. I would like to take this moment to confirm I am NOT an Underground agent (nor would I say I was if I was!) :)

I wonder, does the shepherd fleece the "ninja sheep" and slaughter their lambs before or after the rest of the flock?

I think Christianity needs a second reformation to rid itself of fundamentalism and dare I say supernaturalism. Maybe the ultimate secret embed within our culture is the reality that the Jesus of history is a purely human incarnation. His divine status as the guiding Son of God is really a metaphor for the divine that exists within all people. Jesus was perfectly human but not divine. He was a representative of divine aspirations but not God. The blind faith of past generations may have to be discarded in favour of a new faith paradigm. Instead of communal salvation, a new Church could offer communal illumination through an open and transparent doctrine that discards any notions of a personal God, supernatural myth and secrecy.

Couldn't agree with you more Tony. People seem to need some guiding light. For most it's not enough to look within.

Religion is a curse of mankind. Jesus ain't coming, not in a million years. Look at history since the beginning of time. Religion has always been power and control. The sad fact is that they are fantastic people who have dedicated their lives to service and charity. They have been misled.

David wrote: "Religion is a curse of mankind. Jesus ain't coming, not in a million years. Look at history since the beginning of time. Religion has always been power and control. The sad fact is that they are fa..."

Agree with all that as long as we add ORGANIZED religion to your statement. Take the Aboriginal faith here in Australia, it's about 50,000 years old, as much of a religion as anything else (belief in an Afterlife, a creator etc, intricate descriptions of man's involvement in nature and the Universe) but the difference is native/organic faiths like that haven't been hijacked by political interests. People confuse religion and organized religion all the time, but the two are chalk and cheese in my view. Religion is the one common thing with all peoples all over the planet since the beginning of time (none were atheists according to what I've read), but organized religion is extremely rare and interlinked with power, money and political interests.

Before being hijacked, these belief systems or philosophies behind the organized religions were probably something very sound and powerful. It doesn't appear Jesus coming again was in the pre-Roman pre-Council of Nicea texts, for example...

Agree James, but would you take 'Supernatural' out of your idea of religion? By supernatural, I mean miracles done by a divine creature for the benefit of chosen individuals.

James, good point about "organized".

Tony wrote: "Agree James, but would you take 'Supernatural' out of your idea of religion? By supernatural, I mean miracles done by a divine creature for the benefit of chosen individuals."

I wouldn't take supernatural out of it myself, no. If I may humbly suggest, I recommend studying the Eastern religions, especially Hinduism/Tibetan Buddhism/Yogism in regards to miracles (I think religion in its purist form is linking us to our true powers, which may indeed be termed "supernatural" or "miraculous" by modern people). I don't even think, for example, that there is enough evidence to suggest all of the miracles in the Bible were added in later by the Romans. Because personally, having read all I can since childhood on these early (rarer) Middle Eastern faiths that eventually lead to Catholicism/Christianity, I believe the most advanced Gnostic sects (Escenes, Zoroastrianism and especially the Mandaeans) were somehow inspired by or even influenced (i.e. the reverse flow) the Eastern faiths of India/Asia and were also teaching Man to do more advanced things with his mind and body...The Egyptians play in to that too, with techniques to have out of body experiences, use the subtle energy body (similar to the Chinese/Indian Chi/Prana teachings)...Things that our modern science is still to discover...

But yes, I would be opposed to any supernatural promises that are only for initiates or high priests and discount the public at large.

One of the books I highly recommend (written in 71 but deals very well with possibility of the supernatural) is The Occult by Colin Wilson.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Occ...

I also believe the big lie inserted into ORGANIZED religions after each "way of life" philosophy/religion was hijacked for monetary and control purposes, was to make God completely separate to humans. To make Man small and God all powerful where we are all at the mercy of something external over which we have no way to influence our own reality (in other words, no magic of our own). Even tho I am not an atheist, I believe this is what atheists are (correctly) rebelling against (i.e. they are rebelling against what organized religions are saying, but they are inadvertently wanting to return to something more like what original religions were implying about each individual's own powers).

Religions in their purer form seem to be saying the antithesis of organized religions in that yourself is not some filthy useless sinful thing you need to transcend, but rather that you are just as much a part of God as anything else. Maybe that was accidentally left in the Bible where Jesus says "Know thyself" and also "the kingdom of heaven lies WITHIN". So if heaven/God/all-that-is lies within you, then why do you need to go to Church and tithe and give your power to some Earthly institution?

It's also perhaps a bit like what John Lennon once said: "If there is a God, we are it".

I think I get what you are getting at. There may be abilities that we have either lost or remain a mystery to most people. But isn't this just 'science' that has not yet been proven? I now lean towards the Pantheistic idea of the divine given to us by Spinoza and Einstein. Even Richard Dawkins was reluctant to dismiss them.
Both Spinoza and Einstein ultimately challenge us with the same question; what type of God do we believe in? This is very different to asking what religion a person belongs to; in contrast, their challenge goes to the heart of things - Why do we believe what we believe? The God given to most us by all three Abrahamic faiths is one that demands personal attention, prayer, loyalty and abeyance. This God is omnipotent and transcendent. This is not the God of Spinoza or Einstein. Spinoza in particular, expressed the idea that the divine exists in humanity as a natural part of the universe. No personal favours, no miracles and no answered prayers.

'hypocrite' Tony has now been ordered by his Wife to get ready for a Christmas party..... ; ) xmas cheers Guys!

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Tony wrote: "I think I get what you are getting at. There may be abilities that we have either lost or remain a mystery to most people. But isn't this just 'science' that has not yet been proven? I now lean tow..."

Well, I predict the ultimate form of science will prove to be not opposed to things like spirituality, religion, magic, the paranormal, the supernatural, miracles, the Afterlife etc -- and that these can all ultimately be explored scientifically. It's kind of like what Dan Brown wrote: "Science and religion are not at odds. Science is simply too young to understand.". If you look at quantum physics, as one mere example, that's starting to provide evidence for something that seems very similar to many of the ancient spiritual beliefs. There is an immense cross-over the deeper you go into both religion and science, in my opinion.

I personally think one way to evolve as a civilization will be to reform (or RE-reform!) organized religions (as you stated with Christianity) so they become more flexible and reflect their pre-organized roots. This would help those who are born into these religions have more freedoms.

However, I also think for those who want to explore things afresh in a more eclectic, less traditional fashion, the answer may be something one could call "spirit-science" where both science and spirituality are explored in unison. I believe this is what the Ancients, the Egyptians for example, were practicing when they built things like the pyramids.

We have a lot of catching up to do with the greatest of our ancestors! :)

I have a two small points.

1.) Atheism is not a philosophy of rebellion. It is an absence of belief in any religion. Any animosity is a reaction to being attacked for not subscribing to the beliefs of the attackers. To simulate this perspective, when you are listening to a debate on religion try replacing Jesus, Jehova, Allah, etc. with "The Great Purple Unicorn." Thinking about how the pure love of "He Who Gallops Upon The Rainbow" extends even to the gays whom he randomly punishes nations for tolerating should max out your bullshit meter. Now consider that the Unicornians think that you are an evil Pink Pegasus worshipper because you don't believe them.

2.) Suggesting the reformation of a religion will often be seen by that religion's leaders/followers as an attack, both upon themselves and their god/s. Please refer to the Protestant Reformation and the Thirty Years War.

I think that Atheism is also now becoming more 'organised'. During the early years of this century, a new adversary emerged to challenge the validity and relevance of organised religious belief – organised atheism. Renowned scientist and Author, Christopher Dawkins in his book The God Delusion took direct aim at the institutions of all the great Monotheistic religions. He argues that by definition, these faiths are ‘Theistic’ in that they wholeheartedly embrace their God as creator and ruler over the Universe. This God also influences the lives of his creations; he forgives, rewards and punishes his people.

Professor Dawkins then progressively argues that a belief in this type of God is both absurd and a destructive delusion that has continued to permeate Western civilisation. I concur with this argument. However, his views on Deism and Pantheism need further discussion. Dawkins is also opposed to a Deist view of the divine. Here, there is a ‘creator God’, but this divine force does not interfere with the lives of his creations. For Dawkins, a Pantheist is someone who sees the divine in the natural laws that govern the Universe. Dawkins states that a belief in Pantheism is really just ‘sexed up Atheism’ and Deism is ‘watered down theism’. I would contend however, that Deism and Pantheism are both complementary and compatible.

There may indeed be a superior intelligence that permeates the Universe and that this divine spark exists in some part in all living things. Like the ancient heretical dream of illumination, a Pantheist vision of the divine rests upon the idea of evolution as a progressive and natural force that will ultimately result in the perfection of humanity – the Omega point and the perfect squaring of the circle. The most ‘evolved’ component of this Pantheist vision of the divine resides within the confines of the human mind and independent of the confines of linear space and time. At least Pantheism gives us something to hold onto as we stare into the abyss of our own mortality; maybe part of something greater.

Tony wrote: "I think that Atheism is also now becoming more 'organised'. ..."

Hell yeah. More organised and more dogmatic. In fact, sometimes it makes even fundamentalist religious rigidity look flexible and open-minded :)