Children's Books discussion

I just learned the source of the metaphor, and it's more interesting than the abridgement. Dr. Rudine Sims Bishop wrote:

Books are sometimes windows, offering views of worlds that may be real or imagined, familiar or strange. These windows are also sliding glass doors, and readers have only to walk through in imagination to become part of whatever world has been created and recreated by the author. When lighting conditions are just right, however, a window can also be a mirror. Literature transforms human experience and reflects it back to us, and in that reflection we can see our own lives and experiences as part of the larger human experience. Reading, then, becomes a means of self-affirmation, and readers often seek their mirrors in books.

Debbie Reese adds "curtains." "This is a way to acknowledge and honor the stories behind the curtain--those that are purposefully kept within Native communities."

This is from http://www.ncte.org/library/NCTEFiles..., "Critical Indigenous Literacies." Here she also mentions her support of the #OwnVoices movement.

Since windows can also be mirrors (something I entirely agree with), let's throw this whole divisive us-versus-them idea out and strive to appreciate what is potentially universal. As for own voices, it appears clear to me that in the future, only horses will be permitted to write horse books.

LOL @horse comment from Michael!

I don't think books should be solely mirrors (relevant). Look at the charm of Winnie the Pooh and other books that invoke imagination and inspire. Example: Harry Potter is a huge hit and while Harry's backstory may resonate with some, every kid wants to be a wizard and go to Hogwarts because it's fun and exciting. Boarding school is nothing like that from what I hear. The book is also *gasp* written by an adult woman who is not a witch and did not attend boarding school.

It is important for children to see themselves reflected in books in various ways. Diversity is a big deal now but I feel like sometimes authors pop in diverse characters where they shouldn't be just for the sake of diversity. Disney Junior's show Doc McStuffins is a good example of diversity being incidental to the story. Dottie "Doc" just so happens to feature a little girl of color but it's not mentioned in the show or made a big deal of. She's still able to inspire kids without hammering the message into their brains.

QNPoohBear wrote: "LOL @horse comment from Michael!

I don't think books should be solely mirrors (relevant). Look at the charm of Winnie the Pooh and other books that invoke imagination and inspire. Example: Harry ..."

I generally do like diverse characters and scenarios much much more if they just happen to naturally occur and are not belaboured in the narrative or artificially presented as being so very special and exotic.

And while "relevant" and thought provoking children's literature (or any type of literature for that matter) is important, it is also not something that always MUST be the case, for sometimes, children (just like us adults) want to simply read something fun and entertaining.

Incidentally, I discovered that while Rudine Sims Bishop published her article "Mirrors, Windows, and Sliding Glass Doors" in the Summer 1990 issue of Perspectives: Choosing and Using Books for the Classroom (many seem to point to that as where the phrase was coined), another article titled "Multicultural Literature: Mirrors and Windows on a Global Community" was published in the April 1990 issue of The Reading Teacher.

And it turns out that one of the authors of that possibly earlier article (Susan Lee Galda) included this phrase and idea in her NYU PhD dissertation "Three Children Reading Stories: Response to Literature in Preadolescents" from 1980. There is an epigram:

"Is a story a window,
through which we see the world,
a mirror,
in which we see ourselves,
or both?"

and the concept as expressed in the dissertation seems to be very much consistent with how the phrase is used today.

While Sims Bishop seems to be slightly older (her EdD dissertation is from 1972), I don't know of her using this "mirrors and windows" idea before 1990. I don't have a complete list of her publications, but apparently her first major piece of scholarship was the 1982 book Shadow and Substance: Afro-American Experience in Contemporary Children's Fiction.

Lastly, I haven't yet had the opportunity to see Galda's 1998 chapter in the book Literature-Based Instruction: Reshaping the Curriculum, which is titled "Mirrors and Windows: Reading as Transformation."

So, it seems likely that Galda should get credit for the original, an Sims Bishop for the expansion.

Michael wrote: "As for own voices, it appears clear to me that in the future, only horses will be permitted to write horse books."

I have been struggling with this lately. I would like to write another musical (I have written two), based on a book. But I am white, upper middle class, American - and I don't really know enough about other cultures to write music in their styles. Heck, I barely know enough about writing music to even write it in my own style. Is it hubris to think I could try to convey the experiences of another culture? SHOULD only horses write horse stories?

I think that writing from the POV of a member of another culture is difficult, and risky. But what if you wrote about the intersection between a character like you and the others? I'm thinking of the popular theme exemplified in books like Calico Captive, for example.

Btw. I would *love* a horse story written by a horse. I am absolutely positive that it would have more insights and be more enriching even than Black Beauty, as ghostwritten by Anna Sewell... ;)

Seriously, though, I'm sure horses and frogs and dinosaurs have inner lives that we humans could learn so much from. (Hence part of the popularity of Dr. Doolittle, eh?)

Cheryl wrote: "Btw. I would *love* a horse story written by a horse. I am absolutely positive that it would have more insights and be more enriching even than Black Beauty, as ghostwritten by [author:..."

I enjoyed Black Beauty because he still was a horse in the novel and did not in my opinion appear like a human being in a horse costume so to speak. And thus for me, a book that presents the point of view of a horse must still be a book about an actual equine and not feel like I am reading a novel about a human (usually the author) masquerading as a horse (or any other animal or plant for that matter as I also do not like novels where trees act like humans and not like trees).

But how can a non-equine writer possibly have any idea what it is like to be a horse? It's all just projection, isn't it? And do horses write books for a human readership? I fear that my ad absurdum argument is not absurd enough.

Of course no horse has written a book. But as a thought experiment... I consider it a desirable occurrence.

And to take Gundula's example a bit further: "I am reading a novel about a human (usually the author) *white person* masquerading as a horse *Native person*...."

Projection is much more likely to get things wrong than OwnVoices. Whenever possible, choose the latter.

Which means that one should always choose a mediocre autobiography rather than a superb biography of the same person. No thanks.

Michael wrote: "But how can a non-equine writer possibly have any idea what it is like to be a horse? It's all just projection, isn't it? And do horses write books for a human readership? I fear that my ad absurdu..."

Of course Anna Sewell could not totally imagine what it was like to be a horse, but as she had since she became an invalid as a teenager been totally dependent on horses for all of her transport and movement, she knew what made her horse happy and yes, she also knew from observing what was cruelty (tail docking, bearing reins, overworking cart horses etc.).

And this also then made Sewell able to write a realistic and not too exaggerated a story, and one that actually even caused many important changes especially in the UK with regard to how horses were approached and dealt with by humans (such as for example banning both tail docking and the use of bearing reins).

I agree. Some biographies and novels have value, even when written by an outsider. It's generally accepted, and I agree, that Sewell did a good job.

9 year old niece would LOVE a book about a horse written BY a horse. She would honestly believe the horse wrote the book.

I think authors can write about cultures they are not a part of through research and using an advisory panel and sensitivity readers. That's what the American Girl authors do and Cat Winters did for The Steep & Thorny Way. Her main character is biracial. The author talks about the decision she made to write about this character in her author's note in the back.

QNPoohBear wrote: "I think authors can write about cultures they are not a part of through research and using an advisory panel and sensitivity readers. ..."

Would that more would do this.

OK. This goes off the topic but to reply to a wish for children's authors to be true to cultures, has anyone ever read The Witch of Blackbeard Pond? About a young woman who moves to a Puritan colony in the 1600s in early America. I was reminded of this by the discussion about authors being sensitive to culture. This was a favorite book of mine as a child and accurately depicts the Puritan culture and times of precolonial America. It's a perfect example of writer knowing her material through research and study. Just a thought.

Not really off-topic... but yes, we read The Witch of Blackbird Pond together, recently, in the Newbery club here: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

It does seem well-researched, indeed.

Thanks for the link.

Yes, the Witch of Blackbird Pond is accurate enough in terms of Puritan culture. Elizabeth George Speare did a lot of research and literally wrote the book on Puritan studies! She did a better job than Arthur Miller but he intended his play to parallel The Red Scare in the McCarthy era.

A recent book I loved where the author writes both inside and outside of her culture is Under a Painted Sky. One of the protagonists is Chinese-American like the author and one is an enslaved black girl. The author did a great job finding a voice for her character that sounded appropriate for the era but not stereotypical. I was worried the author was inserting diversity for the sake of diversity but she wrote a good story that was sensitive to the feelings of enslaved people of the time and Chinese-American girls (I'm not sure there were any in 1840s America but it makes sense for the story). There's also a Mexican cowboy character and I'm not sure how accurate he is for the culture but the other characters seem plausible.

A very interesting comment. I think you're spot on.

I don't think children's literature necessarily has to be relevant. Many elements of the childhood experience are fairly timeless.

Yet sometimes books do shine a light on a current/relevant issue and if done well they do become part of our shared history.

Interesting article about rare children's books being made available online:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/29/we...

Just realised the article I posted is behind a paywall. Here is the more important link to the online children's book collection of the Library of Congress:

https://www.loc.gov/collections/child...

Thank you!

This is the topic of discussion in 8th grade English this year. Students have to read a book a quarter and apparently decide whether the book is a mirror or a window. Niece #1 isn't sure which books she's going to read but she feels obligated to read an actual novel and not just a graphic novel. She loves fantasy, white witches/wiccan "witch" stories, the environment and is a staunch feminist! Any suggestions?

One of her favorite books is Juniper. It was her mom's favorite as a young girl.

Lucy Maud Montgomery's novels for me are windows, as they open up a window to a bygone era.

How Green Was My Valleyby Richard Llewellyn is also a window to Welsh mining (not a kid's novel, but we read this in grade eight)

And both Sara and the Search for Normal and OCDaniel by Wesley King are mirrors of modern teenagers with mental health challenges.

Yes, a fantasy or magical realism that is also a mirror or window might be difficult. Might be easier to think just about feminism and/or the Green movement. I'll think on it.

Well, I did search Listopia and got Feminist_YA_Fantasy https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1... right off the bat. Ella Enchanted, The Goose Girl, Tamora Pierce, etc. Some books on that list are too much for 8th grade, but it might be a good starting place. There are other lists, too.

I think she might want to consider Consider the Octopus even though the main narrator is a boy.

That's what I got atm.

Cheryl wrote: "Well, I did search Listopia and got Feminist_YA_Fantasy https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1... right off the bat. Ella Enchanted, The Goose Girl, ..."

I sent her home with Ella Enchanted. I chose it for her because I loved it so much. I enjoyed The Goose Girl but that one might be a bit too much for her right now. Both were great as audiobooks. I also sent her home with Princess Academy and Catherine, Called Birdy. If she doesn't read them then I'll pop them in one of the Little Free Library boxes and see if anyone picks them up.