Mystery/Thriller Reading Friends discussion

Part one to part two chapter five discussion The Silent Patient - breaking at approximately 25%
Spoilers welcome.
If the first to post please briefly summarize to guide the discussion.

Some folks are having problems getting a copy of The Silent Patient and others have already finished (or at least begun reading it). I'm going to go ahead and start posting summaries and everyone can jump in whenever they get the book. It will just have to be a rather scattered discussion!

The Silent Patient Prologue through Part 2 Chapter 5

Prologue
Diary of Alicia Berenson, a painter. She’s been depressed and “stuck” in producing art. Her husband, Gabriel, suggested if she wrote things down it might help her get unstuck. Alicia starts writing in the diary he gives her, if for no other reason than to reassure him. Gabriel is the love of Alicia’s life.

Part 1 Chapter 1
Theo Faber recounts Alicia’s murder of Gabriel which happened 6 years ago when Alicia was 33 years old. When she killed her husband they’d been married 7 years. On the night of the murder Gabriel arrived home at 11:00 p.m. About 30 minutes later a neighbor heard gunshots and called the police. They found Alicia immobilized, seemingly unaware of the police, and Gabriel bound to a chair shot in the face several times. There's a knife near Alicia and she has deep cuts in her wrists. Rushed to the hospital, she survives but will not speak. Between her discharge from the hospital and her arrest she paints a self portrait called Alcestis.

Part 1 Chapter 2
Alcestis is a character from Greek myth, a woman who willingly sacrifices her life to save her husband. The manager of the gallery that represented Alicia, Jean-Felix Martin, decides to exhibit Alcestis before her trial. Theo goes to see the painting, a woman recognizably Alicia staring out at the viewer with a blank face. She’s painting but her canvas is blank. There’s no question Alicia killed Gabriel; the question is why she did it. At her trial a professor of psychiatry, Lazarus Diomedes, testifies her silence is evidence of mental illness. Alicia is found to have diminished responsibility and goes to Dr. Diomedes’ mental hospital, the Grove, instead of prison. She remains there, silent, for years. Theo is fascinated with her and, as a forensic psychotherapist, wants to help Alicia. When there’s a job opening at the Grove, he applies.

Part 1 Chapter 3
Theo became a therapist because he has problems and wanted to help himself. He grew up with an abusive father. He thinks he’s escaped when he leaves home for university but finds himself immobilized by fear. He attempts suicide by overdosing acetaminophen, but doesn’t succeed. He finds Ruth, a psychotherapist, and sees her for several years. Gradually he improves and trains as a therapist but is conscious he narrowly avoided going crazy and ending up in an institution. He is interviewed at the Grove by Indira Sharma and is hired on the spot.

Part 1 Chapter 4
The Grove is an unorthodox hospital and before he begins working there Theo is warned that it may not remain open for much longer. He’s greeted by Yuri, a psychiatric nurse. He finds the hospital isn’t physically kept up and is in decline. Theo is issued keys and a personal safety alarm. He meets Stephanie, the hospital manager. All patients and staff are in a Community meeting when he arrives and he decides to attend.

Part 1 Chapter 5
There’s a Community meeting once or twice a day. It’s an administrative meeting and group therapy. Dr. Diomedes wants to involve patients in their own treatment. Theo recognizes Christian, a therapist with whom he worked at his last job. He recognizes Alicia who is highly sedated. The meeting is interrupted by a patient, Elif, who bursts in late and angry. Diomedes gives Theo the task of dealing with Elif—a kind of evaluation. Theo sees Alicia attempting to focus on him and thinks of her as lost. He’s determined to make her his patient.

Part 1 Chapter 6
Theo visits Diomedes in his office which is filled with musical instruments. Diomedes talks about the Grove’s shaky status. They’re constantly being evaluated for “economic viability.” Diomedes believes the manager, Stephanie, is in league with the health care system. They talk about Alicia who was under Diomedes’ care when she first arrived. She wouldn’t talk during therapy so eventually it was abandoned and she receives no therapy now. Diomedes says she taught him a valuable lesson in failure. “Perhaps you need to learn the same lesson.”

Part 1 Chapter 7
Yuri brings Alicia to Theo in the therapy room. Theo tells Yuri he can leave but Yuri objects. Alicia is supposed to have a nurse's supervision at all times. Yuri agrees to wait in the corridor outside. Yuri and Alicia sit in silence.

Part 1 Chapter 8
Theo reads Alicia’s file. A few weeks after she was admitted she had a violent confrontation with Elif and tried to slash her throat. He decides to visit the gallery to see Alcestis again since it’s Alicia’s only testimony. He also wants to know about Alicia’s childhood. She was raised by an aunt, Lydia, after Alicia’s mother died in a car accident. Alicia was also in the car. Theo wants to talk to Gabriel’s brother, Max, to gain insight into her marriage. Theo knows Diomedes won’t approve of him approaching relatives so he decides not to ask—his first professional transgression. He calls Max and finds he’s out of town for a week. When he reaches Lydia she hangs up on him.

Part 1 Chapter 9
Yuri and Theo have a beer after work. Yuri says he knows Alicia better than anyone at Grove. He says she won’t talk until she can face the truth. He tells a story about being unable to leave his wife until he fell in love with another woman. The other woman didn’t want him, but falling for her forced him to face the truth about his marriage. Yuri advises Theo to go home to his wife and forget about Alicia.

Part 1 Chapter 10
Theo goes to meet his wife, an actress. She’s telling friends the story of meeting Theo. They were both dating others. It was lust at first sight. Theo likes Kathy’s lightness and spontaneity—so unlike him. They sleep together the first night they meet. Theo breaks up with his girlfriend the next morning by phone, ending by hanging up on her. With Kathy he feels himself “thawing.” Theo reflects that there couldn’t be two women more different than Kathy and Alicia—one so open and light; the other sad and silent.

Part 2 Chapter 1 Alicia’s Diary
It’s midsummer and there’s a heat wave. Alicia is trying to complete a painting of Jesus on the cross, but realizes it’s a picture of Gabriel. She decides to go where the picture is taking her because when she tries to have a preset plan it turns out lifeless. She wants to be aware of life as it’s happening. She thinks about her mother strapping her in the car and speeding toward a brick wall. She think it was attempted murder, not suicide. Does she have her mother’s madness in her? She asks Gabriel to sit for the Jesus picture but can’t get the eyes right. They stare at her, burning into her.

Part 2 Chapter 2
Theo asks Diomedes if Alicia’s medicine can be reduced. He can’t do therapy when she’s so heavily medicated. Diomedes tells him that Christian is in charge of Alicia’s care team. Diomedes warns that with less medicine Alicia may be more dangerous. He asks Theo about any ill feeling between him and Christian and Theo denies there is any. Diomedes will talk to Christian about Alicia’s medication.

Part 2 Chapter 3
Christian talks to Theo about the Grove’s imminent demise and asks why Theo is here. Christian is lowering Alicia’s medication dose and tells Theo to come to him next time if he wants to talk about medication, don’t go through Diomedes.

Part 2 Chapter 4
Theo has a second therapy session with Alicia. With reduced medicine she moves more fluidly and her eyes are clearer. They sit in silence until the end of the session when Theo tells her that he wants to help her. He imagines her response is “You can’t help me. . .you can barely help yourself. . .you should be sitting here instead of me. Freak. Fraud Liar.” She attacks Theo, scratching and choking him. It takes four nurses to get her off him.

Part 2 Chapter 5
Theo meets with Diomedes, Indira, Christian, and Stephanie. He tells them Alicia’s attack was a way of communicating. He believes she doesn’t want him to give up on her. Christian thinks it was the result of medication reduction. Indira says she thinks Theo can get Alicia to talk. Theo realizes that Alicia is a powerful bargaining tool for the hospital—if she makes progress it makes a powerful argument not to close the Grove. Theo says it may take a year to see progress. Diomedes gives him six weeks. Christian says she won’t talk in six weeks or sixty years. Theo is determined to succeed.

I'm not a big fan of this book so far. It's too much time in Theo's head. We get the story of Gabriel's murder, Theo's entire history and his marriage, and the workings of the Grove through Theo's ruminations. It was just too much telling, not enough doing for me after a while, although the short chapters helped a bit.

I'm intrigued by all the religious allusions in this book when the summaries I've read give no indication of any heavy symbolism. So what is Michaelides trying to communicate by having characters named Theo, Christian, Lazarus, Gabriel. Not to mention the Alicia's painting of Gabriel on a cross.

There's also a lot of mention of temperature--both the weather and the temperature of rooms. And it's always either too hot or too cold. Sometimes Michaelides makes a connection between his very warm or very cold characters, but he's subtle about it. I'm glad. I don't like it when authors are overbearing about this kind of low-level symbolism.

In the U.S. therapists have been constrained for decades now to shorten the length of treatment--typically to 12 or so sessions that will be covered by insurance. I doubt it's possible any more to get long term treatment unless one can pay for it without insurance. Interesting to see it's the same in England where I might have thought there'd be more leniency in their state-run medical system.

Jan thanks so much for beginning the summaries. I have an audio version and it's near impossible to do summaries. And you've managed to capture some details that i don't remember, so thanks again!

I agree with your comment about hearing too much of Theo thinking. I really didn't want to know all of Theo's backstory, but I'm wondering if it will eventually tie together with Allyssia's story or reasons for killing her husband.

Otherwise I find his story an unwelcome distraction, and it takes away from the central theme of why did Alyssia kill her husband and why won't she talk?

Still, I think I like it a little better than you do, although I'm much further along and can't remember precisely what I felt at this point in the story.

Carol/Bonadie wrote: "Still, I think I like it a little better than you do, although I'm much further along and can't remember precisely what I felt at this point in the story."

Carol, I finished the book several days ago and that always makes it hard to comment. It's hard to do it in reference only to a particular section without spoilers for later parts of the book, but it's also hard to try to isolate my feelings at a particular point in the book when my thoughts now encompass the whole book.

However, I was thinking about it earlier today and realized I don't clearly remember the solution to the mystery and how several threads are resolved. So it's good to review it for the summaries. I'm trying to crank them out as fast as I can but life keeps getting in the way.

When this book was suggested for a group read (was it you who proposed it?), I hadn't heard of it so I'm surprised that it's the new hot read and everyone is having trouble getting hold of it. I have such a backlog of TBR that I don't really actively pursue new-release news but usually when it's the Next Big Thing I've at least had some inkling. My first inkling for The Silent Patient's Next Big Thing status was when it had a Next Big Thing price Kindle price!

So until others get a copy I guess it's just you and me, baby, our voices echoing hollowing in this big empty thread.

I'm here Jan and Carol! I was at a gap in my Overdrive audios and despairing i would ever get a digital copy. As a result, after Carol mentioned liking the audio, I decided to use an audible credit. This broke one of my general rules to not buy books available at the library but fit my "ok to buy group read books" override rule.

My audio assessment so far: I like the female narrator for Alicia better than the male narrator for Theo. He makes me feel like I'm listening to The Telltale Heart and the Fall of the House of Usher by Edgar Allan Poe. He might be the same narrator, but it's also the atmosphere he evokes. Creepy and a bit timeless, and an interesting pronunciation of some words. I'm hooked, but not completely enamored, so it's probably the narration hook.

Jan: This "being in Theo's head" so much might influence why I'm not enjoying the male narrator so much. And Theo's head is not a pleasant or perhaps a reliable place to be.
OMalleycat wrote: "I'm not a big fan of this book so far. It's too much time in Theo's head. We get the story of Gabriel's murder, Theo's entire history and his marriage, and the workings of the Grove through Theo's ruminations. It was just too much telling, not enough doing for me after a while, although the short chapters helped a bit.
"

Jan O'ObservantCat: I will have to watch more for the (cold) temperature extremes. I did make note (i hope in this segment) that Alicia was trying to convince Gabriel to use a box fan while attempting to sleep in the oppressive heat. And now that I think of it, The Grove was cold, at least in Theo's dreary office with the broken radiator.
OMalleycat wrote: "There's also a lot of mention of temperature--both the weather and the temperature of rooms. And it's always either too hot or too cold. Sometimes Michaelides makes a connection between his very warm or very cold characters, but he's subtle about it. I'm glad. I don't like it when authors are overbearing about this kind of low-level symbolism.
..."

Diomedes is quite an unusual character. His reputation as unconventional and use of musical instruments for therapy show him as out of the ordinary.
At first his letting Alicia go without further sessions after an initial attempt seemed odd, but I wonder if his entire motivation for getting her ruled mentally ill in the trial was to shore up his unconventional and unprofitable treatment center. (Repeated now with Theo's attempt).
I suppose it is because of Theo's self-doubting ruminations, but I question his credentials as a therapist.

OMalleycat wrote: "I'm not a big fan of this book so far. It's too much time in Theo's head. We get the story of Gabriel's murder, Theo's entire history and his marriage, and the workings of the Grove through Theo's ..."

i'm on that bench with you, jan. i'm waiting for it to get better. i'm only on chapter 7 so had to stop reading summaries until i catch up.

OMalleycat wrote: "
However, I was thinking about it earlier today and realized I don't clearly remember the solution to the mystery and how several threads are resolved. So it's good to review it for the summaries. I'm trying to crank them out as fast as I can but life keeps getting in the way. ..."
Been there, done that Jan O'Cat! Doing the summaries for Cemetery Road was like a class project! We appreciate your doing them whenever you can get to them.

Jumping ahead in a non-spoilerish way, I found myself wanting a hardcover of this book as I listened. I always find it challenging when the author is jumping back and forth between time periods.

P.S> Yes I think it was I who recommended this for a group read, because of the worshipful reviews.

Ann wrote: "I suppose it is because of Theo's self-doubting ruminations, but I question his credentials as a therapist ..."

Ann, I didn't so much question his credentials as find his motivation for hunting Alicia down, well, suspect. I didn't quite get his obsession for her, it seemed almost like he was under her spell, but for no real reason I could identify.

Carol: Good point! I suppose I should say I question his fitness for being a professional and effective therapist. He does appear to have the credentials.
Carol/Bonadie wrote: "Ann, I didn't so much question his credentials as find his motivation for hunting Alicia down, well, suspect. I didn't quite get his obsession for her, it seemed almost like he was under her spell, but for no real reason I could identify. "

Ann wrote: "I suppose it is because of Theo's self-doubting ruminations, but I question his credentials as a therapist .....

Ann wrote: "At first his letting Alicia go without further sessions after an initial attempt seemed odd, but I wonder if his entire motivation for getting her ruled mentally ill in the trial was to shore up his unconventional and unprofitable treatment center."

I didn't think of that, Ann, but it makes sense. The survival of his center seemed more important to him than the patients. Part of that is also that we just didn't see much of therapists working with patients in this book. Not that I'd expect to "look in" on therapy sessions, but at least some reference to "I couldn't meet with Diomedes because he was with a patient." I remember a reference to Indira using the therapy room all morning while seeing patients but, as I said elsewhere about Theo, everyone seemed to float around smoking or eating lunch rather than working.

Ann also wrote: "I suppose it is because of Theo's self-doubting ruminations, but I question his credentials as a therapist."

And Carol wrote: "I suppose I should say I question his fitness for being a professional and effective therapist."

I agree that Theo was a difficult enough character that it's hard to imagine him being an effective therapist. Signs contrary to being a healthy person: his obsessiveness, both with Alicia and with Kathy at the beginning of their relationship, his isolation from either friendships or family; his very difficult family background. True, lots of people with a difficult childhood become therapists and he'd had years of therapy himself, but he just didn't seem like a stable enough person to be able to take on his clients' troubles equably.

I know that I am late to the party, but better late than not at all. Alicia seems to have retreated to a safe place within herself. Could the silence just be the shock of having killed him or having witnessed it? It makes senses that she is institutionalized instead of imprisoned. The authorities do not have an answer to why Gabriel is dead. All they know is that his wife is good for it because of the juxtaposition of the murder weapon, blood splatter, and the silence.
I am buckling up for this wild ride.

Janice wrote: "I am buckling up for this wild ride..." I hope you enjoy it as much as I did!

Janice: We are glad to have you jump into the discussion and I look forward to your comments!
I agree, it seems likely that the shock of whatever happened in the 30 minutes after Gabriel came home could certainly have caused Alicia's silence. Staying silent that long is "institutional worthy" vs. Jail if only because they really don't know what happened.

Janice wrote: "I know that I am late to the party, but better late than not at all. Alicia seems to have retreated to a safe place within herself. Could the silence just be the shock of having killed him or having witnessed it? It makes senses that she is institutionalized instead of imprisoned. All they know is that his wife is good for it because of the juxtaposition of the murder weapon, blood splatter, and the silence. I am buckling up for this wild ride..."
Barbara wrote: " I hope you enjoy it as much as I did!"