Black Coffee discussion

Here is where we will be discussing this months group read, Passing. Please let me know below if you will be participating.

I've seen multiple ebook versions. Can someone give me a page total for this book? The options range from 84 to 226 pages..lol

Quick update. There's a 305 page one as well..lol

I’m in

I believe the edition I read was around 250 pages. Stunning read.

Shanika wrote: "I've seen multiple ebook versions. Can someone give me a page total for this book? The options range from 84 to 226 pages..lol"

I cannot figure out how to see how many pages it is on the ebook version. But here is the version that I have from Amazon Kindle. It's $0.99 on kindle and free on audiobook.

Thanks. That version has 226 pages on hoopla.

I love this book! I'll be here!

I’m in!

has anyone received a copy yet?

I do.

I’m joining, also. Got my copy yesterday.

I'd like to join in also! I read this book a few years back. Time for a re-read!

Yes!! It's gonna be fun.

kisha wrote: "Here is where we will be discussing this months group read, Passing. Please let me know below if you will be participating."
I am participating. Just finished reading it and can't wait for the discussion. This is my first Goodreads discussion. What do I do?

Hi everyone, I wanted to join this month’s book read. I’m excited to read Passing!

Also forgot to mention, this will also be my first goodreads discussion. 😊

It’s July 1 I have finished the book, Passing by Nella Larsen. I am ready to discuss, but my apologies if I am not doing this book discussion thing right. It is my first time.

Larsen is a Harlem Renaissance writer, in company with Langston Hughes and Zora Neale Hurston.

Passing is a tale contemporary to that time, 1920s, but is read by us in 2019 as historical. In my circles, it is difficult to imagine people being upset by the ethnic make up of any person, but since Trump’s election all our eyes are opened to the underbelly of America and I don’t exclusively mean the poor. It seems the electorate has a high percentage of people who despise people of color, like Clare’s husband, John “Jack” Bellew.


(Was I supposed to start at the beginning of the book?)

Dedria wrote: "It’s July 1 I have finished the book, Passing by Nella Larsen. I am ready to discuss, but my apologies if I am not doing this book discussion thing right. It is my first time.

Larsen is a Harlem ..."

Girl you are QUICK!! lol I am starting it today. I will be posting discussion questions towards the end of the week. You are doing just fine!!!

Mwiza wrote: "Also forgot to mention, this will also be my first goodreads discussion. 😊"

Nice! Thanks for joining. I will be posting discussion questions towards the end of the week

GreSt. ThAnks for the process update. I read fast because in my job I used to read like hundreds of pages in a weekend. Plus Passing is an interesting story.

Hi Kisha, will we discuss the entire book or certain chapters at the end of the week?

I will try to follow along and read it this month. this will be my first book club discussion ever so I might just lurk 👀

brenna wrote: "I will try to follow along and read it this month. this will be my first book club discussion ever so I might just lurk 👀"

Feel free to join in! Do whatever makes you comfortable :)

Trudy wrote: "Hi Kisha, will we discuss the entire book or certain chapters at the end of the week?"

We will discuss each section. There are three sections. I am going to post the discussion schedule now.

This novel has three section. We will discuss each section separately.

Part One Discussion:

July 8th

Part Two:
July 15th

Part Three:
July 29th

I will post discussion questions on the day of that we begin discussing each part.

My book came yesterday. I have only read the introduction about Larsen’s life - very interesting. Looking forward to the discussion!

I'm in! Ready for part one, Getting angry in part 2! 😠😂🤣😂🤣😂

I've read part one.

This is fascinating!

You girls are quick. So sorry I haven't finished part one. Just need another day.

I have my book. ready. Catching up now.

Sorry, I forgot to add my name to the list earlier. I am currently reading now.

Am I missing something? Has the discussion started, and I'm in the wrong place. I keep checking, but I'm afraid I've missed something.

You're not missing anything I'm so sorry been way busy. Will pay discussion questions tomorrow afternoon. Please forgive me you guys

I get it. Thanks. No Worries. Since, I'm new just wanted to be sure I wasn't in the wrong place. It's happened before! :)

discussion questions

1. What are your first impressions of Clare when she is described at the hotel having tea? What does this tell you about how Irene views Clare?

2. What is Irene's first impression of Clare when they reunite at tea? Why is Irene hesitant to spend more time with Clare after this meeting? What does this tell you about Irene's character?

3. Why does Clare decide to pass as white? Why does Irene decide not to pass? Is Irene interested in learning about Clare's life or does she disapprove of her choices?

4. What do the women's husbands tell us about them and what they value? Why did Clare decide to marry a white man and not reveal her racial background? What effect do you think this will have on her daughter? Why did Irene marry a black man with a dark complexion? What effect do you think this has on her sons?

5. If passing as white were an option for you in those times would you do it? Why or why not?

Thanks for the questions. This first part of the book is totally about Passing. Irene uses her appearance to pass into the white world when it is convenient for her. So here she is at the hotel enjoying a cup of tea incognito. And she’s good with that until she noticed this white woman staring at her. That alarms Irene because she does not want to be ejected from that white space. Oh, it would be courteous and on the Down-low because the hotel management does not want people to know a black woman is sitting in their tea room. Still, Irene doesn’t want to deal with racism in whatever form it takes.

Initially, We don’t know anything about either one of these women so my first impression is confusion. Who’s passing? Who’s not? This I think is part of the magic of this story when it was read at publication back in the Harlem Renaissance. People did not know who was white and who wasn’t. Oh, black people always say they know who’s who, but my mother-in-law did not know my first cousin was black. And he was sitting at my mother’s house. Who was that white guy, she asked me. So, the first moments of this scene is Larsen’s statement to black and white readers on the issue.
Some might think this was risky of Clare to come to Irene’s table — Irene certainly did — but Clare is practiced at passing. Irene in the other hand dips in and out, so she is petrified. I think Clare is fucking with Irene, straight up.

1) I am somewhat suspicious of Clare. I don't know if this is based on information gathered from the book intro or on the fact that I have read further along in the book, but my antennae did go up when Claire appears to be quite "provocative" with the the man that she has been with as well as with the waiters. I get the feeling that this is her MO. According to Irene's description of her she is quite alluring and she is put together very well, and that she would be pretty difficult for men to resist. It seems that Irene acknowledges this and it seems that she has to fortitude to deal with this, but I was wrong.

2) When Irene arrives at the "Tea Party" she is a little uncomfortable because she is the only one of the three women who is not "passing". Once Clare's husband comes in Irene realizes that he is not the man Clare was with at the hotel. (Although she does not seem to worry too much about this!! She also sees what kind of racist her husband is and what Clare has to tolerate in order to "pass". Irene is livid about this and vows not to spend any more time with Clare, and she seems to be determined, but ....maybe not.

3) Clare decides to pass for white because she thinks it is easier. She has had a difficult life, and when the opportunity comes she takes it. Irene is happy with her life and does not approve of passing, yet she allows herself to be dragged into Clare's world or better said, she allows Clare to insert herself into her world.

4) In a sense, both women want the same thing, but they go about it different ways, and they both seem to be in a loveless marriage. Irene is content with the world of the African America elite class of the 1920s. She has insisted that her husband become a doctor in spite of his own feelings and seems to relish in her world as a socialite, but it doesn't appear that there is much love in the marriage. Clare sees her chance with this man who has struck gold literally. It never mentions that she loves him, but she obviously loves the financial security that he can provided without the racial problems that comes with being black in the 1920s, but she misses the African American cultural experience.

5) I can't really say. Context is everything, and self preservation causes people to do desperate things. I can't and wont judge people who made decision during a time when unspeakable things were legal in this country. Today, I would say "Absolutely NOT!" I couldn't anyway-too brown!! but I absolutely love the rich heritage and culture that is the African American Experience. In spite of the hurt and pain that our ancestors had to suffer, I love who we represent as a people, and I love all of the powerful things that have come out of that experience. Even with some of the negative consequences of being black in 2019, I would choose nothing else.

Responding to Cynthia on question 2. Your comment that at the tea party Irene realizes that she is the only one in the room who is not passing. Irene realizes it but she does not act on it, so in reality she is passing. She says nothing to show that she is black. Especially not Clare’s husband. It is a deliciously tense moment for readers but not the characters. For them it is the price of straddling the fence.

Well, damn! I couldn’t stop reading and I finished! No worries, no spoilers from me.

Dedria, I agree somewhat. Both Clare and Gertrude know that Irene is a "Negro" (to use the term that is used in the book). Irene and Gertrude apparently know each other because Irene asks about her husband, Fred, and knows their history. The only person that doesn't know is Jack, and she doesn't say anything to him, so she is technically passing I guess. However, she does not reveal this in order to protect Clare's cover. She 'passes' for someone else and not herself, but it technically, it is still passing. On another note, I can't get over how strong and impassioned Irene's anger is with Jack and his vitriol, yet she does not have the capacity deal with Clare in spite of all of her vibes about her, but I guess if things were handled my way, the book would end in the first chapter with Liza saying on the phone, "I'm sorry Mrs. Bellew, Mrs. Redfield has gone out for the evening and she has asked that you please do not call this number or contact her again." =)

LOL. So many books and movies would end early if reason prevailed, but this is emotion. People do the strangest things for the imperceptible reasons. With my response to you question 2 I am on question 3. So let me get to that b

Question 3. The attitude toward passing displayed by each woman is opposite sides of the same coin. It’s clear that Clare decided to pass so she could change her station in life. When her father was alive their circumstances were mean. He was a drunk, drunk. That first scene with him and her I can feel him coming close to her physically. And she is so cool. That is the first place her demeanor, her daring shows. After being orphaned, she goes to live with her aunts and they are white so she is. That is the case with so many bi-facials except those like B. Obama, the first of the dark bi-racials. It’s not such a leap and very easy to understand why she becomes white.
As for Irene, she is the opposite. As a black woman she is in a coveted class. Her father is a doc, and they are well-off. Why change? She learned noblesse oblige from her father who pitied Clare’s father. (I don’t really understand how they live in the same neighborhood). Her color made her a star among black people.

Ok. Last part of the question. Does Irene approve of Clare? She don’t care about Clare!! Not initially. First, Clare scared Irene. After that she just wants to get rid of Clare. Except she doesn’t. It’s like Clare is forbidden. Maybe Irene secretly wanted a life as a white Roman because she can taste the advantages when she needs to. What would it have been like if she had used her status as a light-skinned black woman? Maybe that’s what is behind Irene’s vacillating: I don’t want to see Clare; no, I do.

Nice discussion so far. I am still catching up but will still be posting questions. Please excuse my tardiness as I just started a new job that is much more demanding than I imagined.

Is everyone reading or finished reading part two?

Okay, emotionally I'm all over the place with this book and part two. The whole inside joke of him calling her Nig has me feeling some kind of way.

I think Irene has always thought Clare was a bit of a nutter, not understanding her place in the overall scheme of life.

I'm going to come back to these questions as I mull over them a bit more. The three women represent three seperate trains of thoughts, one wanting to pass and live white, while another happy to pass but living in fear of having "dark children" and the third, enjoying her ability to have tea in white places as a sly get away but living a black life.
There is code switching and then there are these three.

:)

kisha wrote: "Here is where we will be discussing this months group read, Passing. Please let me know below if you will be participating."

I don't know how I missed this group read. I have the book. Oh well. I'm ready for the August read (I hope). I voted. (I think). So now I just have to read Passing really fast and try to catch up.