Heathens, Pagans and Witches discussion

A thread to discuss topics raised in The Secret History of the World by Jonathan Black

Contents:

Introduction.

1. In The Beginning:
--God Peers at His Reflection..The Looking Glass Universe

2. A Short Walk in the Ancient Woods:
--Imagining Ourselves into the Minds of the Ancients

3. The Garden of Eden:
--The Genesis Code..Enter the Dark Lord..the Flower People

4. Lucifer, the Light of the World
--The Apple of Desire..A War in Heaven..The Secrets of the Days of the Week

5. The Gods Who Loved Women
--The Nephilim..The Genetic Engineering of Humankind..The Fish Gods..The Original History of the Origin of the Species

6. The Assassination of the Green King
--Isis and Osiris..The Cave of the Skull..The Palladium

7. The Age of Demi-Gods and Heros
--The Ancient Ones..The Amazons..Enoch..Hercules, Theseus and Jason

8. The Sphinx and the Timelock
--Orpheus..Daedalus, the First Scientist..Job..Solving the Riddle of the Sphinx

9. The Neolithic Alexander the Great
--Noah and the Myth of Atlantis..Tibet..Rama's Conquest of India..The Yoga Sutras of Pantanjali

10. The Way of the Wizard
--Zarathustra's Battle Against the Powers of Darkness..The Life and Death of Krishna the Shepherd..The Dawn of the Dark Age

11. Getting to Grips with Matter
--Imhotep and the Age of the Pyramids..Gilgamesh and Enkidu..Abraham and Melchizedek

12. The Descent into Darkness
--Moses and the Cabala..Akhenaten and Satan..Solomon, Sheba and Hiram..King Arthur and the Crown Chakra

13. Reason--and How to Rise Above it
--Elijah and Elisha..Isaiah..Esoteric Buddhism..Pythagoras..Lao Tzu

14. The Mysteries of Greece and Rome
--The Eleusian Mysteries..Socrates and his Daemon..Plato as Magus..The Divine Identity of Alexander the Great..The Caesars and Cicero..The Rise of the Magus

15. The Sun God Returns
--The Two Jesus Children..The Cosmic Mission..The Crucifixion in South America..The Mystic Marriage of Mary Magdalene

16. The Tyranny of the Fathers
--The Gnostics and the Neoplatonists..The Murder of Hypatia..Attila and Shamanism ..A Touch of Zen

17. The Age of Islam
--Mohammed and Gabriel..The Old Man of the Mountains..Haroun al Raschid and the Arabian Nights..Charlemagne and the Historic Parsifal..Chartes Cathedral

18. The wise Demons of the Templars
--The Prophecies of Joachim..The Loves of Ramon Lull..St Francis and the Buddha..Roger Bacon Mocks Thomas Aquinas..The Templars Worship Baphomet

19. Fools for Love
--Dante, the Troubadours and Falling in Love for the First Time..Raphael, Leonardo and the Magi of Renaissance Italy..Joan of Arc..Rabelais and the way of the Fool

20. The Green One Behind the Worlds
--Columbus..Don Quixote..William Shakespear, Francis Bacon and the Green One

21. The Rosicrucian Age
--The German Brotherhood..Christian Rosencreutz..Hieronymus Bosch..The Secret Mission of Dr Dee

22. Occult Catholicism
--Jacob Bochme..The Conquistadors and the Counter-Reformation..Teresa, John of the Cross and Ignatius..The Rosicrucian Manifestos..The Battle of White Mountain

23. The Occult Roots of Science
--Isaac Newton..The Secret Mission of Freemasonry.. Eilas Ashmole and the Secret Chain of Transmission..What Really Happens in Alchemy

24. The Age of Freemasonry
--Christopher Wren..John Evelyn and the Aphabet of Desire..The Triumph of Materialism..George Washington and the Secret Plan for the New Atlantis

25. The Mystical--Sexual revolution
--Cardinal Richelieu..Cagliostro..The Secret Identity of the Comte de St Germain..Swedenborg, Blake and the Sexual Roots of Romanticism

26. The Illuminati and the Rise of Unreason
--The Illuminati and the Battle for the Soul of Freemasonry..Occult Roots of the French Revolution..Napoleon's Star..Occultism and the Rise of the Novel

27. The Mystic Death of Humanity
--Swedenborg and Dostoyevsky..Wagner..Freud, Jung and the Materializing of Esoteric Thought..The Occult Roots of Modernism..Occult Bolshevism..Gandhi

28. Wednesday, Thursday, Friday
--The Anti-Christ..Re-entering the Ancient Wood..The Maitreya Buddha..The Opening of the Seven Seals..The New Jerusalem

"This is a history of the world that has been taught down the ages in certain secret societies. It may seem quite mad from today's point of view, but an extremely high proportion of men and women who made history have been believers.

Historians of the ancient world tell us that from the beginnings of Egyptian civilizations to the collapse of Rome, public temples in places like Thebes, Eleusis and Ephesus had priestly enclosures attached to them. Classical scholars refer to these enclosures as the Mystery schools.

Here meditation techniques were taught to the political and cultural elite. Following years of preparation, Plato, Aeschylus, Alexander the Great, Caesar Augustus, Cicero and others were initiated into a secret society. At different times the techniques used by these 'schools' involved sensory deprivation, breathing exercises, sacred dance, drama, hallucinogenic drugs and different ways of redirecting sexual energies. These techniques were intended to induce altered states of consciousness in the course of which initiates were able to see the world in new ways."

Jonathan Black/Mark Booth

The mystery cults were what spawned the idea of mysticism weren't they?

I believe so. The idea in The secret History is that we gradually became imprisoned (so to speak) in our own skulls--hence the allegory of Plato's cave. At that point we had to work on awakening the third eye to gain perspective of the divine and the nature of existence.

The Mystery schools taught techniques to awaken that awareness, and therefore realise that we are eternal (often through induced near death experiences). Christ himself was crucified like a tree hung shaman (as was Odin before he gained enlightenment (became All Seeing) and was able to mount and ride the World Tree from the depths of it's roots (Underworld) to the branches (the Heaves or realms of the gods).

From The Sacred History: How Angels, Mystics and Higher Intelligence Made Our World by Jonathan Black/Mark Booth which echoes the general gist of the Secret History. I thought this animation very lovely:

http://www.markboothauthor.com/#!vide...

I read the introduction it looks interesting.


To the Ancients, states of consciousness were important the way science is important to modern man...?

Yep. This book set me off on so many further investigations. Much food for thought. I'd love to chat to others who have read it, or are reading it. It's a hefty book, and those who hold tight to a rigid framework won't get far before tossing it aside, but I loved it. :)

Little wrote: "It's a hefty book, and those who hold tight to a rigid framework won't get far before tossing it aside, but I loved it. :)"

I'm not afraid of hefty books, don't have much of a rigid framework. I chiefly tossed it aside because he made a lot of assertions without quoting sources. It was a "trust me, I know what I'm talking about" kind of attitude that didn't set well with me.

Very short on sources for quotes. Very trust me. I'm usually heavy on quote sources and cross references for non fiction books, but I took this one on as a philosophical what if? alternative history look at things. Fitted in with so much I've read. Loved it. Finding the second book The Sacred History not as good though, and a bit of a repeat.

Little wrote: "Very short on sources for quotes. Very trust me. I'm usually heavy on quote sources and cross references for non fiction books, but I took this one on as a philosophical what if? alternative histor..."

Which is all well and good, but the aspect of "you'll just have to trust me on all this because it's SECRET" put me off. Glad you found it so useful, though!

If you look you can find more documentarys than you can find time to watch about secrets, conspiracys, not to mention latest scientific discoverys, astrophysics.

I have to take a break every now and then. So much to think about. I can get overwhelmed.

I do enjoy books like the above.

Joseph (Millennium Man) wrote: "If you look you can find more documentarys than you can find time to watch about secrets, conspiracys, not to mention latest scientific discoverys, astrophysics.

I have to take a break every now..."

That's certainly true. I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist, myself. They tend to make me quite impatient.

Not a conspiracy theory book at all.

This review sums up whether you will love or hate it. Many will hate it.

Cutting and pasting but will add link at the end.

"148 of 171 people found the following review helpful

This book is not for everyone, Perhaps you are not it!, February 17, 2008

By Odniel Gonzalez Ortiz

This review is from: The Secret History of the World: As Laid Down by the Secret Societies (Hardcover)

To understand this book it is necessary a couple of things. First an understanding that this book is not for everybody and that it cannot be understood by everybody. Second, you cannot grasp this book without having yourself immersed in occultism and having been a member of a secret society or western mystery schools (Just type this in google and you will find out that there are many). Third, at the beginning the book Mr. Booth invites you to take part on an IMAGINATIVE exercise. Fourth, in the academic study of religion there are actually two types of histories considered; the secular or academic history, which is based on actual events that happened and can be proven scientifically through archeology; and sacred history, which takes as true and factual the events that are exposed in the sacred books like the Bible (Old and New testament) and the Koran among many others, which normally form the basis of faith, believes and dogmas of the followers. This book presents a third, subjective and related more to the evolution of our consciousness, which have been presented in secret societies or passed down as mysteries or mythology through the ages.

I will tell you that this book has nothing to do with conspiracy theories but that some of its contents may be misunderstood as such when in fact certain stories are used to present or represent certain ideas exposed in the western mystery traditions. Please note that western mystery traditions are concerned with direct spiritual experiences of reality and of a supreme being, this books talks about this too. Do not expect techniques or guidance on practices, but do expect hints on where to further research all through the book. As an academic I understand his lack of citations of sources as you would find in scientific research but this book is not an academic book. It is a "further research on your own" carefully compiled book.

As you read through the book you will realize that it is deeply inmersed in Rudolf Steiner ideas but without being one of the blindly followers of anthroposophy. But it is also seem that Steiner didn't created all of his ideas on his own and that you can find individuals that have exposed similar ideas to his way before his time and if you further research you will find that these also got their ideas from other individuals before their time also. It is this chain of ideas and of direct spiritual experiences that have weaved a thread, subtle, through history which we may seem in mysticism, magick, occultism, and western mystery tradition.

This is an excellent book and it will turn into an underground classic, as many really important books do, until society is ready again for its ideas. I hope that this review will help you make an informed decision. This is not a beginners book, you cannot simply pick it up at the airport and hope you will comprehend it. It takes time and previous knowledge to make it worth you time. For those prepared, enjoy, and happy researching!!"

http://www.amazon.com/review/RAF9XP66...

Yeah!
Checked out a copy from the public library today.

So in ancient times I can imagine hearing:

"No daughter of mine is dating a Nephilim!"
"But Daddy! I love Diabolo...!"

Who to believe - The say so of experts or my own personal experience?

Joseph (Millennium Man) wrote: "Yeah!
Checked out a copy from the public library today.

So in ancient times I can imagine hearing:

"No daughter of mine is dating a Nephilim!"
"But Daddy! I love Diabolo...!""

:):)

:D :D What if the Nephilim rides a motorbike?

I am wondering what the conversation sounded like in the ladies room:

"My Nephilim has such a long skull..."


What are the Nephilim woman thinking?
"Earth girl! YOU go near MY man and YOU die!!


Up to page 44
How not to get overwhelmed by the content...

Lots to take in, I digested it slowly. When he begins on the plant, mineral, animal (scarecrow, tinman, cowardly lion--you'll get the reference when you reach it :)) think in terms of our evolution, and what we needed in order to evolve from one to the next, i.e scarecrow needed a brain to think, tinman a heart to feel,,,

Anyone know why there is no abstract art before the turn of the late 1800's?

Or why there is no use of profanity in any of the early writings? Did profanity exist?

Or why film photography before the middle 1900's shows no record of gore? (Explosions but no images of dismembered soldiers?)

Joseph (Millennium Man) wrote: "Anyone know why there is no abstract art before the turn of the late 1800's?

Or why there is no use of profanity in any of the early writings? Did profanity exist?

Or why film photography before ..."

Don't know about the art question, think maybe due to the influence of classical art/sculpture on western ideas of art...the push for realistic representation?

Profanity though...how early? I remember reading a piece about the TV show Deadwood by David Milch where he explained that the profanities of the time would sound quaint now as they tended to be religious in origin, in order to get the same response to the language he had to substitute sexual terms. So I suppose profanity is only what we consider profane and is era and culture specific. Giovanni Boccaccio and François Rabelais can be pretty profane as can William Shakespeare...and Apuleius is loaded with it.

Photography...look at some American Civil war photos and some other stuff from around the same period. They may not have been well known at the time for the same reason that WW1 war poetry only really got publicised after the event. All media is used for manipulation of public opinion...witness the way the press responded to the Crimean war (the 1800s one not the current one). The folks at home rarely want to hear anything other than heroic tales...but there are records of the horror of total war out there.

This is new for me:
Viewing the ancient writings and records as metaphor of
the precipitation of consciousness into material form from a higher dimension
Consciousness meaning our own consciousness



It does not seem that profound to me.(at this point in my life)




About the questions I listed, I look for trends throughout history that infuence what seems to be missing.

I have yet to come across the "F" word in any early classic book.

A WWII photographer interviewed said it was not the PRACTICE to photograph corpes. Was considered unethical. On this assignment he was instructed to record the horror. (a death camp)

A close up photo of the battlefield after a slaughter would not be encouraging to new recruits.


(I red of a photography - abstract art connection.)

Joseph (Millennium Man) wrote: "I have yet to come across the "F" word in any early classic book..."

The "F" word wasn't considered a profanity in English until comparatively recently, the swearyness in texts would have been more related to gods, or latterly saints. The term gadzooks (god's hooks, ie: by the nails of the crucified Christ) would have been shocking to those of a delicate religious disposition in Tudor times, but sounds comical to us now.
The more shocking (to modern ears) profanities tend to be sexual in origin and these in the past would have merely been verbs or nouns like many others.

Also by use of the phrase "the "F" word" you have enacted a work of magic and caused me to instantly think of the word fuck rather than type it yourself...the response some may have of reading it may be of shock, as it may be if they read the word cunt. This shows the magical power of words and profanity as still being strong enough to elicit an emotional response, yet the cultural conditioning that says a word is profane or shocking varies.

Joseph (Millennium Man) wrote: "...photography - abstract art connection..."

I seem to remember something on that. Might be wrong, but something about the fact that anyone could make a realistic image with photography creating a backlash that caused some artists to question what we see/perceive rather than what something is. Something about this coinciding with the increase in "primitive" art reaching western salons creating the "perfect storm".
I'm now annoyed and will have to find a source for that...any hints, or other insights, would be appreciated.

Joseph (Millennium Man) wrote: "I have yet to come across the "F" word in any early classic book..."

I like this quote from Aubrey de Sélincourt (who translated The Histories):
"Religious ceremonial nowadays provides less opportunity for bad language and sexual symbolism."

Old-Barbarossa wrote: "Joseph (Millennium Man) wrote: "...photography - abstract art connection..."

I seem to remember something on that. Might be wrong, but something about the fact that anyone could make a realistic i..."

Sounds familiar - Don't remember where YouTube, cable...
With the invention of photo images artists were no longer the sole means of recording visual images.
Photos were the new standard.

Photos replaced portraits.

The role of the artist had changed


Did some peasant ever take charcoal and doodle on the side of the barn?

Completely off topic, but in India it is considered offensive to address someone as "brother in-law" or "sister in-law".

(My retina is now reattached.

Been taking it easy while it mends.)

Looking at it in a positive light Now a standard procedure to fix this. In Some cases can be done in an office visit.

thanks...

Aaron wrote: "Completely off topic, but in India it is considered offensive to address someone as "brother in-law" or "sister in-law"."
Interesting ...

Joseph (Millennium Man) wrote: "(My retina is now reattached.

Been taking it easy while it mends.)

Looking at it in a positive light Now a standard procedure to fix this. In Some cases can be done in an office visit.

thanks..."

Ouch!
Hope it heals well sir.
Bungee related? Boxing? Fighting Grendel in the mead hall? Just curious...seen a few in my time.

Old-Barbarossa wrote: "Joseph (Millennium Man) wrote: "(My retina is now reattached.

Been taking it easy while it mends.)

Looking at it in a positive light Now a standard procedure to fix this. In Some cases can be don..."


In short:
I asked if it was from a fall on my bicycle. Dr said the fall was to long ago to be a cause.

Joseph (Millennium Man) wrote: "I asked if it was from a fall on my bicycle. Dr said the fall was to long ago to be a cause..."

Spontaneous? Hopefully painless then. You sight OK sir?

Much Thanks!

Dr said surgery went well.

Blurry vision will slowly be back to normal in a month or so along with my depth perception.



I went off topic

should this go in a different thread?

Joseph (Millennium Man) wrote: "I went off topic

should this go in a different thread?"

Just don't try and promote a book!
Anyway...
I've not read this book yet but have been interested in comments...wondering whether to give it a shot.

Joseph (Millennium Man) wrote: "Much Thanks!

Dr said surgery went well.

Blurry vision will slowly be back to normal in a month or so along with my depth perception.



I went off topic

should this go in a different thread?"

all good Joseph, nothing wrong with general chat in any of the threads. glad you are healing well. :)

Old-Barbarossa wrote: "Joseph (Millennium Man) wrote: "I went off topic

should this go in a different thread?"

Just don't try and promote a book!
Anyway...
I've not read this book yet but have been interested in comments...wondering whether to give it a shot. ..."

I missed the renewal window for this book. So I am waiting for it to become available again.

I got as far as chapter 5.

Been watching videos and listening to podcasts instead of reading. (At least for now.) The Secret History book appears to include many of those topics. (Book had a spin that was new to me)

I would also love to go into discussion of the documentaries. An endless flow of information&disinformation. It is one puzzle I love to ponder.



also,
podcast - Hardcore History - I really enjoyed this series.

Little wrote: "Joseph (Millennium Man) wrote: "Much Thanks!

Dr said surgery went well.

Blurry vision will slowly be back to normal in a month or so along with my depth perception.



I went off topic

should..."

I love this group!

Mark Booth/Jonathan Black talking about The Secret History of the World. (Disregard the hosting site, which looks very US conspiracy theory based, this book is esoteric in nature, and not espousing more paranoia and conspiracy bullshit).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovU-2...