Star Wars Bookworms Book Club discussion

This isn't strictly about A New Dawn, but some passages from the book have me wondering what everyone here thinks.

I went to a Slavery in Star Wars panel at Dragon Con last weekend, and the subject of whether droids are slaves or not came up. The room was pretty split on it, with some saying droids weren't slaves because they aren't sentient and just followed their programs, and others advocating that droids may have sentience and would expand beyond their programs when given the opportunity to do so.

From Chapter 7 of A New Dawn: "Other organic beings, for their supposed sentience, were really no better than droids, Vidian thought. They could be made to act according to program."

From Chapter 8 of A New Dawn, Kanan's thoughts about stormtroopers: "Organic droids, trained to react a certain way and seek out certain targets."

If it's this easy to characterize people as droids, I'd argue many droids are on the same level as sentient beings. I have a hard time watching R2-D2 and C-3PO and not seeing droids that have risen above their programming to be more than "just a droid." Even the brief clips we've seen of Chopper show a droid that seems much more than just machine.

What do you all think about droids? Sentient, or just computers/machines?

I will comment more later but I love this topic! You need to post more topics. Also how did I miss this at DC?

Teresa wrote: "I will comment more later but I love this topic! You need to post more topics. Also how did I miss this at DC?"

The panel was pretty late on Sunday night, not a ton of people there. Those that were had good discussion though!

Fun facts: In the Star Wars the Old Republic video game there's a Flashpoint (instanced group mission) where one droid is fed up with how droids are treated and leads a rebellion to eradicate all organic life in the galaxy. There's also a short discussion in the Jedi Knight story about Force-sensitive droids.

They do a good discussion of this on PBS idea channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLiee...

It's an interesting concept. Sentience in droids seems to be directly related to both their initial programming and their owner.

Take a mouse droid or other basically programmed droid. It probably wouldn't matter what its surroundings are, there is very little chance that it might rise above its programming to true sentience. It has a job to complete and it's functions are strictly related to completing that job.

At what point does programming allow a droid to rise above it? For the most part, the only droids that seem to have this programming have functions that require extensive interactions with sentient beings.

The availability of memory wipes and restraining bolts leads me to believe that there has been some historical event (or the fear of one happening) where a droid may have gone a too far past the program into sentience and wasn't able to be controlled. It's been a while since I've read I,Robot but I know similar fears we're explored in those stories. But robots in that work were specifically not allowed to harm humans, and that is definitely not the case in SW.

So, if we have a droid with the ability to "rise above its programming", there's a pretty good chance that this particular droid is owned by a sentient being. It would be up to that owner how far past the programming he would allow the droid to go. He can control the droid through wipes and bolts, or decide not to. If a being can be controlled so thoroughly, can it really be considered sentience? Especially since only the programming in the first place can even allow a droid to rise above it?

I suppose this is where the issue of owning a droid would come into play. If a droid can achieve sentience can it be owned?

Such a fascinating discussion that has been explored in other publications, but I don't know of any specific SW work that has tackled this in universe.

Thanks for making me think on a lazy Saturday afternoon!

I don't see restraining bolts and memory wipes as being that different than putting a human in chains and withholding an education from them. At that point, the person is just doing their "programming" of whatever their master orders.

That then does bring up the question of whether droids (at least advanced ones like we're discussing) should be owned. If you need restraining bolts and memory wipes to keep them doing what you want, they're either really bad machines, or things that probably should be able to do their own thing rather than being owned.

I am loving this discussion and I want to discuss it on my podcasts

There are a lot if Droids who go off and do their own thing. Ig88 comes to mind. From the reading, memory wipes are there to stop droids from forming personalities.

Clonetroppers are also created and programmed to obey. Like droids, they are owned and not free to live their own lives.

Wonder if you should consider the younglings as kinda slave like. Taken from their parents at a young age and forced to join the jedi

Bruce wrote: "Clonetroppers are also created and programmed to obey. Like droids, they are owned and not free to live their own lives."

I bet that was one of the ideas George Lucas wanted to convey when he thought up the Clone Wars. While the separatists used a mass-produced army of pre-programmed mechanical soldiers, the Republic used organic ones. It helps to convey the increased militance of the Republic and the decay of its morals as it is all too willing to adopt a similar strategy as its enemy. This makes the transition from democracy to autocracy all the more appropriate.

Albert wrote: "Bruce wrote: "Clonetroppers are also created and programmed to obey. Like droids, they are owned and not free to live their own lives."

I bet that was one of the ideas George Lucas wanted to conve..."

Clones as slaves was one of the big discussion points at the panel, and everyone agreed they are property, and essentially slaves. It's why I was so surprised when so many people didn't think that droids were slaves.

You could argue that the clones are individuals (they are) while battle droids aren't (which is fair), but that discounts droids that very much are individuals like R2. He's as much a person to me as any of the clones.

There is a book where 3P0 is questioning his sentience. Imma go find it.

Derek wrote: "There is a book where 3P0 is questioning his sentience. Imma go find it."

It's in the New Jedi Order somewhere I think.

there are a few times in The Clone Wars where battle droids, mostly for comedic effect, say things that indicate some level of sentience greater than you would expect for them.