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The Broken Sword
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"The Broken Sword" by Poul Anderson (BR)
Here's some of which was posted on the Buddy Read thread earlier:The revised seems to have much added flourish to it's descriptions of things. A bit more 'fluff' in between nouns.
Ie. the original:
"Skafloc could dimly see them, graceful shining bodies haloed with rainbows. Of moonlit nights, drawn by the glow like other denizens of Faerie, they would come out and sit on the mossy banks, naked save for weeds twisted into their hair and garlands of water lilies."
vs the revised:
"Skafloc could dimly see them, a cloudy glimpse of white graceful water-gleaming bodies leaping in the foam and spray, haloed with rainbows. Of moonlit nights, drawn like other denizens of Faerie by cold the mystic beams, they would sometimes come out and sit on the mossy banks, white and naked and streaming water with weeds twisted into their long hair and garlands of cool pale water lilies."
The changes so far seem non-vital to the plot. All seemingly but whims of the author.
Both of the version are by the author themself, so I don't know it really matters, whether you want to read the original, or the one they 'improved'.
This is one of my favorite Poul Anderson novels, which is saying a lot.Around the time the Ballantine edition appeared I got university library access to translations of one of the sagas Anderson used as a springboard, and was impressed at how he managed to be faithful and highly original at the same time.
There *is* one change (or set of changes), concerning which character appears in a couple of scenes, and this does make a difference, although not to the overall plot, but I will definitely not identify it in advance. (And if I was tempted to do so, I no longer have a copy of the revised version to quote directly, just a Kindle version of the original.)
Ian wrote: "...There *is* one change (or set of changes), concerning which character appears in a couple of scenes, and this does make a difference, although not to the overall plot..."Thank you! This is good to know.
I myself am listening the original version, only occasionally glimpsing at the revised text. So, this might go past me, but it could very well come up in the conversations here. Good to be aware of this in advance, should there arise any confusion about identities :)
Jemppu wrote: "Thank you!..."I have a Goodreads commitment to several very long books, but I'm going to try to remember to look in here, and to mention the change when appropriate, assuming others don't do it first.
In considering Anderson's other revisions, one should remember that he was looking back at one of his first books, and trying to apply what he had learned from experience in the intervening years (1954-1971). Some feel that he should have left his younger self alone.
Just finishing it now.I am curious about passing references to the Christian god (first made in Chapter 13):
(view spoiler)
here's one explanation:http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/hvitk...
and it seems to fit the sense in which it's used
CBRetriever wrote: "here's one explanation:http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/hvitk...
and it seems to fit the sense in which it's used"
Thank you for going to the trouble of looking that up, and immediately: I was vaguely familiar with the baptismal robes explanation for "the White Christ," but I probably would have missed the secondary meaning.
In passing, until the development of relatively cheap and easily washable cotton garments during the early stages of the Industrial Revolution, pure white cloth was difficult to obtain (and keep clean), and therefore considered highly desirable, and correspondingly expensive.*
Medieval clerics were sometimes concerned with "pagans" presenting themselves for baptism several times, in order to receive the white garments as gifts -- an abuse of the sacrament, as well as an expense for the missionaries.
*The change is signaled in Jane Austen's "Mansfield Park," in which a particularly obnoxious character is self-righteously indignant about servant girls presuming to wear white.
No problem - I was curious about it myself after you mentioned it. I read the original version back in June of last year. It was an interesting book but in comparing it to more recent books that deal with fight scenes, "grey" characters, etc, I find that I'm spoiled by the depth of more recent books.
CBRetriever wrote: "No problem - I was curious about it myself after you mentioned it. ..."Actually, Chris asked the question. I was trying to think up parameters for Google (since I know my handful of reference books don't cover it) when your response popped up before I could start the search.
As for depth, I would bear in mind, again, that this book was early in Anderson's career, and, maybe more importantly, he was in part emulating (but not actually imitating) the spare characterization of the Icelandic sagas (although some characters in them are vividly realized through their words and actions, without any "inner life" available to the reader).
Anderson also learned more about likely medieval fighting techniques in the early years of the Society for Creative Anachronism, starting in the later 1960s (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society... ), although more ambitious attempts at serious recreation have been done since.
The descriptions of combat in "The Broken Sword" are pretty cursory in both versions, but some of that additional experience and information may have shown up later, in his historical "The Last Viking" trilogy, elaborated from the real career of an actual Norwegian king (with Karen Anderson, 1980).
And possibly in "War of the Gods" (1997) which is an adaptation of a story by Saxo Grammaticus, the probably monastic medieval "historian" of early Denmark, another fantasy with single combats, campaigns, and battles. Another candidate would be "Mother of Kings" (2001), a saga-based fantasy with some historical foundation. (I reviewed the last of these on Amazon, a long time ago.)
But it has been a long time since I re-read any of them so I can't point to examples for comparison with "The Broken Sword."
A basic knowledge of Norse mythology is useful, but not essential, for this book -- e.g., knowing in advance what Odin is like adds a little, but can be picked up from what Anderson says about him and shows him doing.But in "The Broken Sword," Poul Anderson also drew on some very specific Old Norse legendary sources, over and above the main mythological and heroic stories in the Elder (Poetic) and Younger (Prose) Eddas.
Over the years I've put together some Kindle editions and PDFs containing most, or all, of Anderson's sources that are available in English, including some editions that came along later. (I assume he was also working with Danish versions, on which I am pretty much clueless.)
*If* anyone is interested (and please let me know before I plunge in), I'll post a bibliography here in the next couple of days -- it may take a little while to run down current URLs for the PDF versions.
This offer is aimed especially those who have *already* read the book, and aren't concerned about spoilers, although I was already familiar with the outlines of the Old Norse stories in 1971, when I read the Ballantine edition, and I found that the knowledge helped to appreciate where Anderson was following tradition (mostly offstage), and where he was (ingeniously) innovating.
On my projected bibliography: I found that I have more information readily at hand than I thought, so I might as well go ahead with mentioning three volumes which may be of interest in connection with The Broken Sword.Poul Anderson got the sword, with its name, and some other plot elements, from legendary sagas (with older verse incorporated or otherwise extant). The most prominent of them for our purposes has appeared in English twice that I know of, in translations based on different editions of the Icelandic text (which is found, with a variety of differences, in three manuscripts).
It is sometimes known as "Hervarar Saga," or "Hervor's Saga," and other variants, after a heroine (well, actually two of them who share the name, if memory serves). The other title for the saga is "The Saga of King Heiðrek the Wise." (They sometimes share top billing in compounded titles.)
The older translation (1921) is incorporated, along with some related modern ballads on the story, and unrelated stories, in "Stories and Ballads of the Far Past", two editions of which are available from Kindle, as Stories and Ballads of the Far Past: Norse Myths: The Saga of Hromund Greipsson, The Saga of Hervör and Heithrek, The Faroese Ballad of Nornagest, The Danish Ballad of Angelfyr and Helmer... and Stories and Ballads of the Far Past Translated from the Norse (Icelandic and Faroese) with Introductions and Notes The first is very inexpensive, the second, which reproduces the original title, is free.
However, so far as I can tell, they both derive from the same Project Gutenberg transcription, which imposed limits on fidelity. There are also hard-copies from other publishers, which I have not checked for accuracy: they may reproduce the print edition directly, or rely on the transcript -- I've seen both for other books.
For those who want to see that original, which includes music for some of the ballads, there are free PDFs (and other formats) available on the Internet Archive (archive.org). Of the three offerings, one that is a clean copy, from a clean original, can be downloaded from https://archive.org/details/storiesba... At least one of the two others is defective (or was the last time I looked).
If you haven't used this amazing resource before, scroll down the page until you see the options for formats to download, and click one -- I always go with PDF, as some of the others will garble text, and especially lay-out.
This translation is by Nora Kershaw, known later in her career under her married name, Nora K. Chadwick, or as just N. K. Chadwick, and the various versions of her name all come up on on-line searches.
The more recent, but still rather old (1960), translation, this time facing a critically edited Icelandic text is, "The Saga of King Heiðrek the Wise." The introduction and translation are by Christopher Tolkien, and the introduction compares the two divergent manuscript texts -- there are difference's from Kershaw's translation because of this.
This was reprinted in 2010, as a fiftieth anniversary edition, in honor of Christopher Tolkien, although it should be noted that the saga made some contributions to "The Hobbit," such as the Riddle Game -- for which, however, there are other inspirations.
This reprint is available from Amazon (and elsewhere) The Saga of King Heidrek the Wise
However, there is a free PDF version of the original edition, offered by the Viking Society for Northern Research on their publications page. Go to
http://vsnrweb-publications.org.uk/
and scroll down to a list of saga translations. Clicking on the title will launch the download.
For some reason, Goodreads has an extra listing for it, attributed to Jesse Russell and Ronald Cohn, who have nothing to do with the matter so far as I can see.
The same Viking Society page offers a lot more, including a similar bilingual edition of the Volsunga Saga (the story of Sigurd, the sword Gram, Fafnir the dragon, etc.), as "The Saga of the Volsungs." There are a lot of other translations of this saga: too many to try to list or describe here.
Volsunga Saga also contributed some ideas to Tolkien's work (mainly pieces of "The Silmarillion," but also "The Lord of the Rings)," often in combination with other inspirations
But the saga, and the older poems behind it, also provided his title idea to Anderson -- who takes the story of a different "Broken Sword" in a different direction.
Anderson's elves, for all that they distance themselves from human society, and think themselves far superior, have a Dark Age culture enhanced by magic and some advanced metallurgy, and they behave accordingly. (Or, if you want to be polite, they are an "Heroic Age" society, like that reflected in later tales of the Good Old Days.)(view spoiler)
*hah* gotta admire the coldblooded honesty
Beautifully written, indeed. That's perhaps what I personally find the most attractive aspect of this yet: that it all reads so lyrical with so few words (well, the original anyway. Haven't followed the revised as linearly).
I’m 24% in and enjoying it so far, really does feel like reading an old saga.
I've been noticing a few typographical errors, or problems with transferring to the text to digital format, in the Early Bird Kindle edition. Most are on the order of “never be *sore* their children are stolen” where the obvious reading is "sure." Others I'm not certain about, although I suspect, more or less strongly, that something has gone wrong. Unfortunately, I no longer have my copies of the 1954 and 1971 editions in which to check them.(view spoiler)
you can always report them just in case they are typos by long pressing on the word in question, then tapping on More and there's a report content error/formatting problem
Christopher wrote: "I’m 24% in and enjoying it so far, really does feel like reading an old saga."It does. I'm about half way in and get the feeling I have to read the "Nibelungen Saga" some of these days again. The feeling reminds me a bit of that tale.
Christopher wrote: "I’m 24% in and enjoying it so far, really does feel like reading an old saga."Anderson wrote other books based on sagas, and in novelistic adaptations of the saga style, as I mentioned in Message #10. For anyone who might be interested, I've put together a sort of annotated reading list, avoiding spoilers (so some of my comments may be found opaque).
The most obvious example, from its title, is Hrolf Kraki's Saga This reconstructs, from a late saga and other, older, literary evidence, the legends of the Danish Skjoldung dynasty, who are found in "Beowulf" as the Scyldings. It was originally written for the old Adult Fantasy series from Ballantine Books, as one of the outstanding originals among its reprints of older books.
Based mainly on the Latin "Gesta Danorum" of the medieval Danish cleric (maybe a monk) known as Saxo Grammaticus, available in The First Nine Books of the Danish History of Saxo Grammaticus and elsewhere, is War of the Gods.
Anderson linked an already fantastic story directly to the larger cycle of Norse Mythology by way of the controversial theories of the French scholar of Indo-European mythologies, George Dumezil, especially From Myth to Fiction: The Saga of Hadingus (See also Wikipedia for a run-down on his work.)
I don't find the saga-style quite so obvious here, possibly because the source text was so different, and Anderson didn't try to completely elminate its influence. (Saxo may have got his nickname, meaning "the Grammarian" -- or "the Learned" -- from his rather verbose and complicated Latin style.) Or my knowledge of Saxo is getting in the way.
One of Anderson's last books was Mother of Kings, which is based on Snorri Sturluson's Heimskringla: or, The Lives of the Norse Kings, and some other historical, or at least historiographic, sources. He also used Egil's Saga, the several translations of which I reviewed on Amazon some years ago: e.g., one was for Egil's Saga as translated by the fantasy writer E.R. Eddison. This saga has also been attributed to Snorri Sturluson, who is better known as the fairly certain author of The Prose Edda(or Younger Edda, or Edda of Snorri Sturluson) The Prose Edda
"Mother of Kings" can be considered historical fantasy, as Anderson kept in the magical elements of the sagas, instead of discarding them as other novelists might have been tempted to do.
Also based on Snorri's Heimskringla, but more strictly historical (although it incorporates many legendary elements) is The Last Viking Trilogy: The Golden Horn, The Road of the Sea Horse, and The Sign of the Raven, about the life of Harald Hard-Counsel (various renderings), (view spoiler)
In chapter 17, another example of the delightfully sinister dark humor that Anderson so masterfully sprinkles throughout:(view spoiler)
I continue to be very impressed by how thoroughly and confidently Anderson pulls off the style of his narrative.
Gabi wrote: "I'm about half way in and get the feeling I have to read the "Nibelungen Saga" some of these days again...."For those who go looking for it, the Old Norse saga is the oft-translated Volsunga Saga -- or Saga of the Volsungs, depending on which translation you choose. For a recent example, see The Saga of the Volsungs. I've reviewed some of them on Amazon, a long time ago.
It is based in part on the heroic songs in The Poetic Edda, also known as the Elder Edda,* including material on pages now missing from a unique manuscript, which makes it invaluable. It fails to iron out some glaring inconsistencies in its source, but it is quite readable.
The Nibelungenlied (or Song of the Nibelungs) is a Middle High German poem covering some of the same material, but quite differently in many aspects of the plot, and characterization. The Nibelungenlied
It is strikingly different from parts of Wagner's "Ring of the Nibelung" operas: he also drew heavily on the Norse versions, mixing and matching to suit himself: "Twilight of the Gods" is the portion closest to the old poem. There is no substitute for the music, but there is a good translation of the libretto facing the German text, The Ring of the Nibelung.
*And in older references as the Edda of Saemund the Wise, a long-abandoned attribution to a medieval Icelandic scholar.
CBRetriever wrote: "you can always report them just in case they are typos by long pressing on the word in question, then tapping on More and there's a report content error/formatting problem"Thanks for the reminder.
I'm still putting together a list of things to be corrected, or at least checked against the hard-copies. I might as well take care of it once and for all.
it's easier to do it as you run across them and you don't even have to be connected via wifi as the corrections/problems will be sent once you connect
Anthony wrote: "Ah, chapter 20. [spoilers removed]"My fav chapter so far.
Anthony wrote: "In chapter 17, another example of the delightfully sinister dark humor ..."*hah* yes! That very passage stood out for me too: (view spoiler)
And chapter 20 (view spoiler)
CBRetriever wrote: "you can always report them just in case they are typos by long pressing on the word in question, then tapping on More and there's a report content error/formatting problem"Sadly that does not work in the Kindle app. I read books mostly on iPad Mini, cell in a pinch.
You can report errors on the website near the bottom of the detail page. "Feedback" section >
"Would you like to report poor quality or formatting in this book?" Menu = "Has typos"
I just learned this a few days ago, haven't tried it yet.
Bonnie wrote: "Sadly that does not work in the Kindle app. I read books mostly on iPad Mini, cell in a pinch. ..."Thanks for the warning, although I've had to give up using the Kindle App for Mac. It became unstable when I upgraded my OS, and so far as I can find Amazon hasn't put out a version that is fully compatible with Apple's High Sierra (which itself has since been replaced by Mojave), which I find kind of weird.)
I mostly read on a Fire tablet, and long pressing can be difficult to manage with my clumsy fingers, although I can can get "Report Content Error" to appear. It doesn't seem to work in Cloud Reader, which requires a cursor, and I hate typing on my phone..... All in all, I'm inclined to highlight, build up a list, and then go through them in one session, rather than be interrupted as I read along.
whatever works for you - the Kindle works perfectly for me in reporting them. For a while with one book, I was pretty busy reporting every they're when the word should have been their (spell check problem I guess). And then there was the book that had a hyphenated word on every page that was obviously an OCR error.... (hyphen at end of line in a paper book that ended up in the middle of the line in the Kindle version)
Immediate reporting ability would certainly be better, and then submit them right as you run into them, as you said above. "Ship of Magic" had dozens of typos and I would have liked to report them. I wish the Kindle app had that.
Does AZ send a response? Better yet, do we know if they actually /eventually make the corrections?
you used to be able to see the ones you've reported on the website and see if they'd been processed, but that option doesn't seem to exist any more.When I see a book I've complained about come out with an updated version, then I believe they're likely been fixed. I've had two notices of fixes but one was from the publisher Delphi informing me that they'd added the ending of Huck Finn and that one was fixed quickly. The other took almost 18 months to fix and I received a notice that the book had been updated from Amazon. The last one had a huge problem in that a whole chapter was missing and the folling chapter was repeated twice in a row.
That is great; it means by taking that time we are actually making this world a better place -Improvements!
I just finished and I thought it was really really really excellently well done. It’s hard for me to believe this book isn’t more celebrated and influential.
I feel I must agree. I was surprised of how convincing a saga this conjured up and of the ease with which it sucked one into that realm (without being of epic proportions in length either). Like a well written poem/song.
I especially liked the way Anderson managed to get the old saga feel across with his style. This was delightful to read. Even though it made the story itself predictable.When I'm back home I'm going to search for accessible versions of the Edda and the Nibelungen. I know way too little about our own sagas (somehow everything was Greek mythology in my youth)
I’m currently on vacation in a windy spot by the shore with many trees so when this text appeared “When the ruler spoke it was like a wind rushing through far-off trees” I could easily relate — it’s something I’ve heard each day here.Only on chapter 12, but already I can see echoes of this story in more recent works, GRRM is what specifically came to mind.
SciFi and Fantasy Book Club
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The book has two versions: "The Broken Sword... originally published in 1954. It was issued in a revised edition by Ballantine Books... January 1971. The original text was returned to print by Gollancz in 2002."
Which ever you choose to read should be of no importance, the changes seem mostly 'ornamental'. Here's an article to help you determine which version yours might be.
Please, remember to use spoiler tags with chapter markers, to ease the following of the thread without fear of spoiling the experience. Thank you.