The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

Feel free to comment on these first chapters. I will copy comments Phodrick and I made on the main discussion thread.

Here are some questions from Phodrick -

What is your take on commissions?

Do you think we are seeing any of what will be called the decadence associated with the Fin de siècle?

I made a point of telling your that in the prior book Octave Mourat as a younger man left behind him at least one too many babies and a mostly soulless existence.

What is your take on him as a business man? Is there a passage that seals the deal on him for you?
Miss Denise is our eyes into the wold of The Ladies' Paradise. What do you think will be her future as the book progresses?

Anyone else with a large scale harking to shop there ?
Anyone want to work there?

And comments from me about the first few chapters -

I read the first 2 chapters quickly. I keep thinking of the PBS series Mr. Selfridge about the London dept store. This seems to be quite a bit earlier in time. Also it reminds me of the current issue of small stores vs big box stores and later everyone vs online/Amazon.

Also the stereotype of marrying the owner's daughter that we saw in The Claverings appears here too.

I was astounded that the society ladies discussed the price of everything openly at the soiree. I doubt that the ladies in Trollope would do such a thing. Apparently, it was quite ok in Paris.

I really enjoyed Chapter 4 with the description of the day, and how at the end it was like the aftermath of a battle, or a hurricane.

The method of purchasing and paying required several different steps. Until recently this system was used in some European countries. You get a slip, go somewhere else to pay, then either come back or your purchases get delivered. The customers get access to a lot of goods. Traditionally, in a small shop, the owner would bring out what he or she thought was appropriate. The customer didn't get to paw through everything. Some of the customers here are really challenging, demanding to see everything and then not buying, or buying the cheapest thing. I think people who work in retail today can relate to that (today people go home and buy the item online) and also to all the work of refolding what the customers have looked through.

Hello, This is my first buddy read - or listen, as I'm listening to the Librivox audiobook. Although I may have to switch over to my Kindle as the reader/narrator is very good, but has a thick French accent, which makes me have to listen to it on a very slow speed to be able to understand each word. She's very talented at making some characters sound different; while her pronunciations of the French proper nouns are marvelous, I have a hard time following.
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Besides the Mr Selfridge program on PBS, there is an Amazon series from 2012-2013 called The Paradise, which I dearly loved! At the time I had no idea it was taken from a Trollope novel.

Back when I watched it, there was no charge, but it looks as though Amazon has taken it off Prime and moved it to a purchase.
I suspect the series told only a small chunk of the novel.

Thanks, Robin for this bit of info regarding purchases and all the steps involved, also for the explanation of how customers didn't get to see a small shop's stock. I didn't understand the whole process of that from the reading.
And now, online, we not only get to see all the stock, but we often buy without having seen or touched our items. Friends who say they don't care for online shopping often cite the tactile lack. In my case, I'll sacrifice that for the convenience of not having to leave home and with free shipping and returns, it helps being disabled and unable to get out much, be more tolerable. It's very helpful.
Hope I didn't digress too much, but it is hard to think of the origin of the department stores I grew up shopping in, having its roots in France, in this time period.


Robin wrote: "And comments from me about the first few chapters -

I read the first 2 chapters quickly. I keep thinking of the PBS series Mr. Selfridge about the London dept store. This seems to be quite a bit e..."

Part of why I like buddie reads is that sometimes everyone can contribute background as well as opinions. So thanks for the steps to shop.
As I sit here wearing my first on line clothes purchase, shoes, I also find it hard to believe people, esp women feel comfortable enough to buy sight and fit unknown.

I really got into the drive and machine like quality of this department store. Zola 's writing reads like a factory tour.

I expect for the narrative to become ever more personal, or more POV of the people.Still What a first act.

Oh yes, Phodrick- precisely- like a tour of a factory. I tried to see it in my mind... and of course images from the Amazon The Paradise series ran through my brain. 😂😂
The thing where goods were unloaded and sent into the store. At first I thought it was a physical machine and later I saw it as a metaphor of ‘feeding the machine.’ The Machine being the store... where you feed it, it’s sold and more is in its place.

Pardon me if I’m jumping ahead- can’t recall which chapter- but I loved how they had same day delivery - in Paris! I thought Trollope used that as a way to denote what a high level of service the store provides to its customers!

Amy wrote: "Besides the Mr Selfridge program on PBS, there is an Amazon series from 2012-2013 called The Paradise, which I dearly loved! At the time I had no idea it was taken from a Trollope novel."

You mean a Zola novel. I remember seeing previews of episodes of The Paradise being on PBS just after Mr. Selfridge started. I did not realize the show was based on the Zola novel since they changed the setting to England. I didn't watch it because I was already watching Mr. Selfridge and one 1900 era department store show was enough for me.

In England, the shows were competitors on different channels with Mr. Selfridge on iTV and The Paradise on BBC while in the U.S. they were both on PBS.

Amy wrote: "Pardon me if I’m jumping ahead- can’t recall which chapter- but I loved how they had same day delivery - in Paris! I thought Trollope used that as a way to denote what a high level of service the s..."

There used to be same-day mail delivery in cities like Paris and London. Mail carriers came several times a day. I think there were pneumatic tubes in Paris connecting different buildings or neighborhoods. Certainly they were used in businesses (and dept. stores) for a long time.

I'm wondering about the fabric/seamstress option vs. the readymade option. The store sells lots of fabrics and I suppose the rich ladies have their own seamstress at home or on call. But the store is also selling some clothing that is already made up, such as the items that Denise models.(the French term for the dept is "confections", which I had to look up to realize it doesn't mean "candy" but rather readymade clothing.)

Please forgive me as I misspoke saying this is by Trollope! 😂😂 I’m also doing a buddy read of his The Claverings.

Robin, I hadn’t gotten to the part of the book where Denise is modeling. When I think of ready-to-wear clothing, I think of prêt-à-porter. I have no idea when that term came into use.
Confections is a new one to me.
Thanks for the explanation - how fascinating- conveyance tubes that went around town!
Hope they worked better than the ones in some banks I worked at- they were always acting up.
😂😂
Also interesting that mail came several times a day!
I got the feeling that The Paradise was using their own delivery people, but perhaps that was an assumption on my part when it was explained.
It’s a little difficult to go back and find it with an audiobook.
I really must switch over to the the Kindle book.

I think you are right about The Paradise having its own delivery people. It's a way to encourage shoppers to buy more than they can carry. It's kind of like things are coming full circle. Before everyone had private cars, lots of services came to the home (milk & ice delivery, peddlers with wagons, etc.) With cars, those mostly went away, but now delivery is back in style with people ordering food, supplies, and everything Amazon, to be delivered.

Amy wrote: "Please forgive me as I misspoke saying this is by Trollope! 😂😂 I’m also doing a buddy read of his The Claverings."
I'm in on the Claverings. The mistake is understandable. Robin had just referred to The Claverings and had insightfully commented that Trollope's women would never had been discussing prices like the Paradise shoppers, so you had Trollope on your brain from that too. Multi-reads can be confusing especially when they are set in similar time frames.

I'm doing ok keeping The Paradise straight, but I keep confusing The Claverings and Wyllard's Weird. In normal life, I am often listening to one book and reading a couple others. I try to keep them different genres, such as historical fiction vs. modern mystery vs. fantasy, but sometimes there are still overlaps. I once was in the middle of a historical mystery with childbirth prominently featured, a fantasy where there was an important childbirth and was watching on TV the series on Queen Victoria where she gives birth. It was a bit much!

I understand, Robin. I was watching Victoria once, wondering about what happened to a character when I realized that I was thinking about someone on The Crown. Watching two British Queen shows at the same time threw me off even though they were in completely different centuries.

Brian, that’s funny! I think I’ve done that before, too.

Tomorrow we are open to chapt 5-8. Are we little involved?

Is there too much melodrama over Denise or is there a general shortage of other people that engage anyone's interest?

Early on there is a scene, Denise looking down at a sidewalk sale of Umbrellas at The Ladies'.
The one person with no umbrella and no hat is the umbrella shop owner. Such a nice piece of writing. Caught my eye.

I’m behind on the reading and have only finished chapter 3. Others have noted the shop as a monster/machine. I was surprised also by the descriptions of the shopping experience as a religious/pseudo religious experience and as a lustful/sexual experience. Looking forward to discovering how Zola works out these three metaphors into a unified message.