Underground Knowledge — A discussion group discussion

If you've read some of my comments or looked at my profile, you'll know I experience this weird 11:11 Phenomenon thingy. (See my recent Goodreads blog entry called '11:11 Phenomenon Book List' for more information.)
https://www.goodreads.com/author_blog...

But how do those mystical numbers fit into any sort of conspiracy? Well, it is often argued that the Illuminati (a generic term I use for 'the conspiracy elite') use numerology and number power, in exactly the same way that we know Satanists use numbers. So, regardless of whether you believe in such occult ideas yourself should be immaterial when looking at this topic. The question isn't: do YOU believe in mystical number power? The question is: do the elite?

Do they use certain dates to perpetrate their crimes?

It's a big topic, but I thought I'd introduce it to the forum.

Here's a few good bits on the subject for beginners:

11 Examples of Illumintai Numerology:
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/01/...

An intelligently written piece called The Illumintai Code:
http://conspiracyresearch.blogspot.co...

Understanding Illuminati Numerology:
http://helpfreetheearth.com/news565_n...

A detailed view of the number 11 at play in the 9/11 attacks:
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/...

I do not advocate everything that is said in those articles, but I do, personally, believe that numbers hold mystical powers and our elite know that and use them...but I'm now bound for more occult and mayya beliefs, so I'll leave that one hanging, as I will the significance of the number 23 and other such things...

Cheers.

Will check out these links soon.
But speaking of 9/11...I realized something...9+1+1 = 11!

Indeed it does, and there's a lot more of that sort of thing in the last link above. There are also 111 days until the end of the year after 11th September.

A member of this group (Cosmic) pointed out to me that WW1 is memorialized on November 11.
11/11
Not sure if that means anything though...

Indeed, that's often sited as being a part of 'the conspiracy' using the 'master number 11'. The armistice went into effect at 11 a.m on 11/11/18, and, of course, many countries still observe a minute's silence at that time.

By the way, with talk of 9/11 and other things recently, I thought it might be interesting to note not only all the 11 coincidences in 9/11 as per the link above, but also the Madrid bombings on 11th March 2004. 1+1+3+2+4 = 11.
And then there was England's 7/7 attack in 2005. (2+5= 7) Speaking of which, do you know that there was an exact test carried out for bomb terrorism in London's subway, at exactly the same time in the morning, one month before? Let alone other indications that it was yet another 'inside job' false flag.

There were multiple terrorism drills being carried out on 9/11 as well.

I'd forgotten to mention: Prince William and Kate's wedding service began at 11:11 a.m. A very precise time to be accidentally chosen, eh?

Edward wrote: "Harry wrote: "I'd forgotten to mention: Prince William and Kate's wedding service began at 11:11 a.m. A very precise time to be accidentally chosen, eh?"

Co-incidence or choice? A definitive answe..."

I should mention my wedding invitation from my mate Harry (Prince Harry, that is, not from "our" Harry) specified an 11am start. I couldn't make it, but my Windsor sources advise the bride was a few minutes late. All very innocent by the sound of things. Hope this helps...

Edward wrote: "I think that the point made about whether or not the world leaders believe in numerology or magic is a key point. If their sick beliefs rely on an un-provable, after-therefore-because-of, scenario with a worship of that which has been mathematically delineated, it can be very well used against them the same way that someone put under voodoo is susceptible only if they believe in voodoo.

Not to sound smart; I am not. But, it seems to me that all concoctions of numbers; added, subtracted, multiplied, divided, and whatever the hell else they can do with numbers always leads to two. ..."

You raise a really interesting point, Ed, and actually you sound pretty smart to me on this subject.

The way I read it, the implication in your post is this: Is it possible that all the obvious Occult-style beliefs that the global elite have, including their obsession with numerology and symbolism, amount to nothing but a steaming pile of BS?

This is something I've considered for a while and I think this is a very important counter theory to at least consider. It strikes me that the vast majority of independent researchers and conspiracy theorists naturally assume that just because the global elite are obsessed with these subjects then they absolutely MUST BE verifiable, provable or otherwise factual sciences.
Why so? Just because they are in positions of power means they know all the secrets of the Universe? A careful study of history will reveal Kings, Queens, Lords and other elites have been believers in the most ridiculous ideas imaginable.

So given history reveals a lot of idiotic Voodoo-style beliefs at the very top, could it be this current generation of the global elite are no smarter than the rest of us and just as prone, if not more prone, to accepting beliefs without proof?

I'm not saying this is necessarily the case, but I certainly think it should be thrown into the mix of possibilities.

As I said (and you picked up on Edward), the important thing is whether or not the elite use this occult numerology, not whether one believes in it oneself- because for us to come to any dot-connecting conclusions with conspiracy theories, we need to look at all evidence given, ranging from hard factual stuff to more occult and ethereal ideas; that always come up with conspiracies/secret societies etc.

And Edward and James, as you have noted, just because 'they' believe in it/propagate it, doesn't make it real. But that logical argument then runs much further than that, in that WHY the hell would 'the elite' bother using numerology- or any of their other occult controls, as with Nazi Germany- if it didn't 'work' for them? An elite that have managed to hide themselves throughout history wouldn't need to resort to such 'adding to the pile of bullshit'. That's not to say they don't use double bluffs and disinformation tactics a hell of a lot of the time, but from what I can see, these tactics are only implemented to confuse a topic that has some truth to it to start with.

Personally, I believe we're in a Matrix. So of course, all is number.

Harry wrote: "As I said (and you picked up on Edward), the important thing is whether or not the elite use this occult numerology, not whether one believes in it oneself- because for us to come to any dot-connec..."

Hey Harry

I think you are probably right in all you say.
There are many signs that the elites believe numerology works and I have also asked myself WHY would they go to all that trouble unless they are sure it works.

However, to continue to play the Devil's Advocate (which is not always a very popular role to play!), I would counter again that the elites have BELIEVED all sorts of weird and unproven things throughout history including some really laughable and shameful ideas and practices. And that includes very recent history. So how can we be so sure this new batch of unelected rulers are any more immune to mistaking beliefs for facts?

Here's one analogy of sorts I have considered on this whole issue of the religious and occult beliefs many of the global elite seem to have...
About 30% of the world's population are now estimated to be atheists and believe in no God or any form of afterlife whatsoever. And probably about the same percentage of atheists compared to believers are in this very group of intelligent, alternative thinking people we have assembled here.
Likewise, some of the global elite are believers in esoteric stuff (either positive or Satanic) while many other elites such as the Rockefeller clan are atheists who often become enamoured with Transhumanism and the idea of physically living forever with advanced technology.

So somewhere in there one side of the elites is totally wrong and the other is totally right. Either there is a God and an afterlife and all those elites who do supernatural séance-style rituals are not wasting their time and the atheist segment of the elites are deceived, OR the elite atheists are the only group that are thinking the right thoughts and the believers are completely deluded.

And what I think all this shows again is that the global elite simply do not know all the secrets of the universe. They just think they do and possibly they are very often clutching at straws like the rest of us. Granted, with their secret societies and access to withheld/classified materials they are probably able to get a slightly clearer look at the bigger picture, but conversely their despicable behaivor also shows this so-called ancient wisdom hasn't helped them become better human beings.

So is numerology just a superstition that these elitists THINK works, or is it the real deal? Is it a false religion they believe in, is it disinformation designed to trick conspiracy theorists, or is it conspiracy theorists seeing numerological patterns where there are none, or is it as you imply a proven science that world leaders know they can use to manipulate world events to their liking?
I have no idea! Why are you asking me for? Actually, you're not asking me but it sounds better if I rewrite it as if you were asking me! :)

But anyway, it'd be great to hear what other members think of numerology and whether it's a legit science.
So far the scoreboard is as follows:
Disbelivers 1 (Edward)
Believers 1 (Harry)
Fence sitters 1 (myself).

Apologies for my continued fence sitting but I refuse to believe in absolutes until I have absolute proof on anything.

J

James wrote: "Harry wrote: "As I said (and you picked up on Edward), the important thing is whether or not the elite use this occult numerology, not whether one believes in it oneself- because for us to come to ..."

Add me to the Disbelievers...or to the Always Look on the Bright Side of Life category if you start such a category.

Numerology scoreboard update:
Disbelievers: 2
Believers: 1
Fence sitters: 1

James wrote: "Harry wrote: "As I said (and you picked up on Edward), the important thing is whether or not the elite use this occult numerology, not whether one believes in it oneself- because for us to come to ..."

There's nowt wrong with playing Devil's Advocate, and you raise some good points, but seeing as our understanding of who exactly is involved with the elite and at what level of the pyramid they exist, it's just as murky to say 'some believe in occultism whilst others don't' as much as it is to come to any other conclusions.

Personally, I think the top echelons of the elite do indeed have 'secret knowledge' of our world and that they use this secret religion/secret science to control things- but of course there's much room for argument.

What are the scores on the board when we ask 'Do you believe the elite believe?'

Yep, fair enough Edward. I can't debate my personal beliefs in matters like this in any logical argument. From an evidence point of view, we have no idea what the double bluff machine is spewing out. I just happen to think the elite have secret knowledge from ancient times, and that's how they've managed to pull the wool over our eyes for so long.

Harry wrote: "What are the scores on the board when we ask 'Do you believe the elite believe?'..."

In hindsight the scoreboard thing was a dumb joke. Was meant to be an impromptu poll, but it came out wrong. So Mr. Whitewolf's wisdom has broken thru my ignorance!
p.s. I'm now busy doing my numerology at this end :)

If you control both sides, it's easy to get want you want. So if 'the U.S/Elite etc.' are behind 'Al Quaead/ISIS etc.', it's pretty damn easy to get your orders carried down to your soldiers on the front line, who believe they're working for their god, when they're actually working for the ugly Elite.

PROBLEM REACTION SOLUTION. You want a police state with curfews and an increase in security? ...well, first you need to find a problem (“Terrorism), then you get the reaction from the people (“Something must be done. Please save us.”) and you easily reach your solution. How easily the Elite have moved their pawns and bishops in the so short space of 14 years.

Paris: 9/1

Which brought to mind 9/11. I still find it strange that this one horrific terrorist attack was labelled as a date for its name, rather than 'World Trade Centre Disaster', for example, like the vast majority of tragedies that are tagged with simple names, like 'the Oklahoma bombing' or 'Pearl Harbour'. Of course, ever since 9/11, things have been tagged with similar date names: 7/7 etc.
What I find even stranger is that us Europeans and elsewhere adopted the American way of writing a date when referring to it (9/11 not 11/9), simply because it was being reported as 9/11. The question I'm raising, I guess, is whether such things are intentional. Perhaps, as I've suggested, the Elite do believe in or use 'satanic' numerology, or perhaps numbers are just used to subliminally hypnotise us.
9/11 was adopted rather than 11/9 because 911 causes the subliminal panic associated with the emergency number, of course. Just one tactic used by those shadowy cowards.

I didn't know that 7s speech Wesley- cheers for that (which I've just found 12 hours 12 mins after you posted it).

Harry wrote: "If you control both sides, it's easy to get want you want. So if 'the U.S/Elite etc.' are behind 'Al Quaead/ISIS etc.', it's pretty damn easy to get your orders carried down to your soldiers on the..."

I think a great place to look at a pattern is in their literature. The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich: A History of Nazi Germany is what good start. The authorWilliam L. Shirer says that he got the material to write the book from Alexandria Washington. Ok this place came up for me in studying the The Catcher in the Rye.

You can read about it here:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

In the comment section I add another link, a talk of a master mason in the Alexandria Washington Masonic Lodge #22. This was the year that the lodge was erected, and the year Hitler really came on the scene in Germany.

If you read my post you will see the players on the chessboard put into place, which by the way the board is all numbered as is the world and all the stars (that they know of) and the people. Numbers are huge.

But what this master mason says about secrets is a quote from the Bible....he said the reason they keep secrets is because the uninitiated cannot understand...just like in the Bible it says not to cast your pearls before swine.

The other reason for mentioning The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich: A History of Nazi Germany is because we now know that Hitler did not commit suicide as of FBI documents and so should William L. Shirer since he was in Alexandria getting the latest scoop 10 years later. But how many times in the first chapter does he remind us of Hitler's suicide? But nothing about him being in Argentina.

Harry wrote: "Indeed, that's often sited as being a part of 'the conspiracy' using the 'master number 11'. The armistice went into effect at 11 a.m on 11/11/18, and, of course, many countries still observe a min..."

Yes and 18 is 9+9 = 18 or 1+8 = 9 so it has 3 9's. And 3x3 =9.

Harry wrote: "If you've read some of my comments or looked at my profile, you'll know I experience this weird 11:11 Phenomenon thingy. (See my recent Goodreads blog entry called '11:11 Phenomenon Book List' for ..."

March 11 2011:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukush...

I see that was sited in the article that you referenced! Great article and comments.

Just to play the Devil's Advocate here again, I noted Mark Passio mentioned in the video I saw (that Micky shared I think), how it doesn't matter if certain beliefs of the elite are actually true. Rather, all that matters is if the elite are willing to act on those beliefs (whether erroneous beliefs or not). This was the Passio video I watched some of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIq5X...

So in regards to numerology, I'm still on the fence as to whether it holds meaning or is meaningless. Clearly, certain factions of the elite are obsessed with it, I think we can all agree on that. But it still requires a leap of faith or a lot of "dot connecting" to say numerology is definitely a way to influence the world and is not just superstition.

Again, I would remind that throughout history the elite have been shown to be obsessed with all kinds of bizarre, ridiculous and evil gooble-de-gook. Sometimes I think those in the conspiracy community make the mistake of confusing power with wisdom. Just because certain individuals are in positions of power does not mean they know anymore answers about the Universe than the average citizen. In fact, judging by their psychopathic/idiotic behaviour I'd have to say it's safe to conclude most of the elite know less truth not more than the average person.

None of this is to say numerology is necessarily another ludicrous belief of the elite, but I certainly wouldn't discount that option...

Anyway, what matters more in my opinion is not whether numerology is a legitimate force or just something akin to superstition, but seeing the signs of this belief structure being played out on the world stage.

Perhaps it is belief structures (i.e. all these things that people have no proof of only mere beliefs) that are wrecking havoc in this world...

Sir wrote: "Hello I am Sir Victor smith I am one of the agents sent by the
high priest to bring as many of those who are interested in
becoming a member of the Illuminati to the great
Illuminati temple,am a bu..."

Are you related to that Nigerian guy with the banking problems?

Micky wrote: "Cosmic wrote: "Harry wrote: "Indeed, that's often sited as being a part of 'the conspiracy' using the 'master number 11'. The armistice went into effect at 11 a.m on 11/11/18, and, of course, many ..."

Cheers Micky, you actually sound like you know more about it all than me. :) Thanks for your insights- and, yep, that 'G' (7) is certainly interesting.

Sir wrote: "Hello I am Sir Victor smith I am one of the agents sent by the
high priest to bring as many of those who are interested in
becoming a member of the Illuminati to the great
Illuminati temple,am a bu..."

Serve Victor's Myth, Sir Victor Smith?

...o.k, so I made that comment last time the idiot posted, but I thought it was so good, I'd do so again. :)

Ah, we need someone to laugh at don't we Edward?
(And you think we can rule out nuts in a group like this? I better get my coat...)

No stupidities from you noticed Edward!

Of course, what would really be funny is if The Illuminati were actually trolling for new members on the internet... there's got to be a comedy routine in here somewhere... maybe the Pythons would come out of retirement to do the bit - "No one Expects the Illuminati!" - well, you get the idea...

Jim wrote: "Of course, what would really be funny is if The Illuminati were actually trolling for new members on the internet... there's got to be a comedy routine in here somewhere... maybe the Pythons would ..."

Could the Illuminati stand the torture of The Comfy Chair?

Harry wrote: "Could the Illuminati stand the torture of The Comfy Chair?.."

I thought they invented The Comfy Chair - but maybe my facts are wrong...

Okay, back to the numerology thing, in the film "The Big Lebowski", there is a scene where The Dude is in a supermarket checkout line buying milk. There is a small TV showing George HW Bush talking about the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait and saying "This can not stand!" There is a closeup of the check that The Dude is writing and it's dated September 11th. Mostly I want to believe that it's a total coincidence and has nothing to do with 9/11, but you know, sometimes the mind makes leaps...

ISIS = 9 19 9 19.
9+1+9+9+1+9 = 38. 3+8 = 11.

And it was mentioned in another thread about Neo's passport also having the 9/11 date, in The Matrix.

Jim wrote: "Sir wrote: "Hello I am Sir Victor smith I am one of the agents sent by the
high priest to bring as many of those who are interested in
becoming a member of the Illuminati to the great
Illuminati te..."

Ha. Well said Sir Jim!

Jim wrote: "Sir wrote: "Hello I am Sir Victor smith I am one of the agents sent by the
high priest to bring as many of those who are interested in
becoming a member of the Illuminati to the great
Illuminati te..."

Can someone do a numerology breakdown of Sir Victor Smith's name? :)

Carmelo wrote: "Here im Harry! A pleasure to join the group!Hello everyone! Im carmelo from Italy, new here... I started to experience the 11:11 Phenomenon in 2010... and I think the best way to introduce myself i..."

Many, many people are waking up indeed Carmelo. And the more I'm involved with my own 11:11 experience, the more I believe 'the elite conspiracy/Illuminati' are- and always have been- using the master number 11 and others to help control this matrix world we're in.

11 is also just one tool being used by those good beings in the unmanifest world (for whom we have many differentt names) to show us there are truths we need to wake up to.

Welcome to the group Carmelo. :)

And those mysterious pillars of Solomon's Temple, Boaz and Joachim, seem to be one example of the aesthetic 11 being used in architecture- like other twin towers throughout history.

Micky wrote: "Carmelo wrote: "Here im Harry! A pleasure to join the group!Hello everyone! Im carmelo from Italy, new here... I started to experience the 11:11 Phenomenon in 2010... and I think the best way to in..."

So that means Sir Victor is number 1. Numero Uno.
Which means what? He thinks he's the best...
Hmmmm, maybe there's a song in this...Sir Victor's the best, better than all the rest, better than anyone, anyone I've ever met.

:)

This may be a coincidence, but I noticed this 7 77 reference in an article on MK-Ultra drug experiments:

“Perhaps the most infamous experiment came when Isbell gave LSD to seven black men for seventy-seven straight days. Isbell’s research notes indicates that he gave the men ‘quadruple’ the ‘normal’ dosages. The doctor marveled at the men’s apparent tolerance to these remarkable amounts of LSD. Isbell wrote in his notes that ‘this type of behavior is to be expected in patients of this type.’..."

Micky wrote: "Harry wrote: "And those mysterious pillars of Solomon's Temple, Boaz and Joachim, seem to be one example of the aesthetic 11 being used in architecture- like other twin towers throughout history."
..."

That's interesting stuff Micky, but I'm not as clued up on stuff as you it seems, so I had a little difficulty in understanding all of your numerology workings, but B and J do seem to have much relevance- and the letter W is most certainly one of the elite's symbols- which, if one believes in such stuff- you can then see it hidden every damn where; 'they' particularly like to invert it as M- McDonalds being the king of that symbol. But of course, one can argue so much against that sort of thing precisely because the letters W and M are everywhere!

Am looking forward to more insights from you Micky. The Third Tower idea is new to me, but seems to make some sense. Would like to know more about that.

Harry wrote: "But of course, one can argue so much against that sort of thing precisely because the letters W and M are everywhere!..."

WalMart...

Jim wrote: "Harry wrote: "But of course, one can argue so much against that sort of thing precisely because the letters W and M are everywhere!..."

WalMart..."

Good one!

Right, I'm off to eat some M&Ms in my BMW...

Micky wrote: "Harry wrote: "Micky wrote: "Harry wrote: "And those mysterious pillars of Solomon's Temple, Boaz and Joachim, seem to be one example of the aesthetic 11 being used in architecture- like other twin ..."

Thanks for all your latest insights Micky. There are some very interesting things in your posts and some which I need to study and comprehend more- but the 5 Rings of the song and Saturn was a very good observation, and I certainly feel that Saturn is much involved with such things as 'elite truth'. Also, yes, am aware of M and W being male/female and those associations, and have been thinking a lot about mirror images lately.

I see you're MM! :)

(I'll have to change my first name to Walter.)

!

What happened to Walter Whitewolf in the end Harry? Was he ever born?

James Morcan wrote: "What happened to Walter Whitewolf in the end Harry? Was he ever born?"

I'd forgotten about that. I think Walter became one of my split personalities - only I can't remember. :)

Harry wrote: "I'd forgotten about that. I think Walter became one of my split personalities - only I can't remember. :)"

Sounds like a familiar story, mate...
A little too familiar actually!

Found this excerpt from this article: Birth, growth and computation of pi to ten trillion digits -- http://link.springer.com/article/10.1...

"In fact, the Chudnovsky brothers once said: We are looking for the appearance of some rules that will distinguish the digits of π from other numbers. If you see a Russian sentence that extends for a whole page, with hardly a comma, it is definitely Tolstoy. If someone gave you a million digits from somewhere in π, could you tell it was from π’? Some interesting observations are: The first 144 digits of π add up to 666 (which many scholars say is ‘the mark of the Beast’); Since there are 360 degrees in a circle, some mathematicians were delighted to discover that the number 360 is at the 359th digit position of π. A mysterious 2008 crop circle in Britain shows a coded image representing the first 10 digits of π."

Harry wrote: "Jim wrote: "Harry wrote: "But of course, one can argue so much against that sort of thing precisely because the letters W and M are everywhere!..."

WalMart..."

Good one!

Right, I'm off to eat so..."

The letter M is the 'sound' to the Egyptian Hieroglyphic of an Owl, and we see a lot of owls in mythology and current occult symbology.

Shannon wrote: "The letter M is the 'sound' to the Egyptian Hieroglyphic of an Owl.."

I didn't know that - interesting stuff!

Yeah, the owl is high profile in occult symbology.

It figures highly in my new books series as well. I only give a little taste of what is to come in the first book, but it (owl) really shows up (as the enemy) unavoidably in the next three. I look forward to seeing if any of my readers will decode the symbology or if it will be (mostly) transparent to them.