Never too Late to Read Classics discussion

Dom Casmurro is an 1899 novel written by Brazilian author Joaquim Maria Machado de Assis. It is written as a fictional memoir by a distrusting, jealous husband. The narrator, however, is not a reliable conveyor of the story as it is a dark comedy. (288 pages)

Joaquim Maria Machado de Assis was a pioneer Brazilian novelist, poet, playwright and short story writer, widely regarded as the greatest writer of Brazilian literature. Nevertheless, Assis did not achieve widespread popularity outside Brazil during his lifetime.

Our Host is Rafael!

I am in on this one! Anyone else?

I read this one a couple of years ago. I enjoyed the book but the narrator is definitely unreliable.
It was the first book which I read by this author. Since then I have read 2 more and plan on reading at least one more.

I hope you all like this book. I will take a risk to state that it should be the most known Brazilian book by brazilians also the most debated brazilian book by brazilians.

I know what you mean, Rafael. The debate is not about the quality of the writing, but the main character himself, being an unreliable narrator.

Lesle wrote: "I am in on this one! Anyone else?"

I'm in. I'm spending today reading my other books and deciding whether to read this or Family Lexicon first.
I will probably read this one first since this one has more initial activity than Family Lexicon.

Rosemarie wrote: "I know what you mean, Rafael. The debate is not about the quality of the writing, but the main character himself, being an unreliable narrator."

Indeed, Rosemarie! This is the subject of debate.

This book will be a good match for me as I am an unreliable reader.

It is hard to answer your question without giving away the plot. But once you have read it, my comment will make a lot more sense. Dom Casmurro is certainly an interesting character.

Rosemarie is right. When you finish it you will understand her statement, Carol.

I understand where you are coming from, Carol, but sometimes unreliable narrators are that way for a reason-to distort the facts and make themselves look better than they are.

Carol wrote: "My comment was more philosophical and general, seeking to engage on the topic on the front end. Ala..."

Actually, we'll probably be more ready to discuss the general issue of the unreliability of accounts on the rear end than the front end. Too much pre-engagement may result in a situation similar to reading an Introduction with too many reveals.

An article from the New York Times

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/13/bo...

When they refer to slaves in the novel I realized how little I knew about slavery in South American and Brazil in particular. In reviewing the subject, I found it interesting that:

1) Besides being used in sugar and coffee plants, slaves were widely used in mining during the 18th century, for both gold and diamonds; and

2) Brazil was the last country in the Western world to abolish slavery. By the time it was abolished ... in 1888, an estimated four million slaves had been imported from Africa to Brazil, 40% of the total number of slaves brought to the Americas. (from Wikipedia)

FINISHED THE BOOK - SPOILERS

I have finished the book and have mixed feelings. I did enjoy most of the lyrical writing, though I found my mind wandering during a few of the narrative digressions.

My major problem was that while I was reading I couldn't shake thinking that this was an "unreliable narrator" and thus anything I was reading could be a lie. Those thoughts made it hard to engage with the events of the book because I didn't know if something actually happened or would turn out to be made up.

When I finished, I found my concern was misplaced. I don't think the narrator is really not making up events, except maybe for events that you know he is guessing at: the extent of his son's resemblance to Escobar and why there is that resemblance. He does have a biased perspective on events, as narrators do. He is not like the unreliable narrator in Pale Fire.

This is the back cover blurb from my edition:
"Bento Santiago, the wildly unreliable narrator of Dom Casmurro, believes that he has been cuckolded- he suspects that his wife has cheated on him with his best friend and that her child is not his. Has Capitu, his love since childhood, really been unfaithful to him? Or is the evidence of her betrayal merely the product of a paranoid mind?"

Thankfully, I did not completely read this blurb until I finished or the events of the last 1/3 of the book, the major plot events, would have been revealed to me. It was bad enough reading and thinking the narrator's story was "wildly unreliable" which prevented my engagement with the narration of events. I think the back cover blurb does the reader a disservice by labeling Bento as a "wildly unreliable narrator."

Brian wrote: "2) Brazil was the last country in the Western world to abolish slavery. By the time it was abolished ... in 1888, an estimated four million slaves had been imported from Africa to Brazil, 40% of the total number of slaves brought to the Americas."

This information is right. We, shamely, were the last to do it.

That blurb would have ruined the whole book, Brian. What was the publisher thinking?

Rosemarie wrote: "That blurb would have ruined the whole book, Brian. What was the publisher thinking?"

Rosemarie, the publisher is only thinking "how best can I entice a reader to buy the book" and not "how best can I entice the reader to buy the book without revealing too much and ruining the reading experience." So they bring up affairs, paternity issues and a mystery - exciting stuff. The bottom line is the bottom line.

I just read the Introduction which, following your advice, I only read afterwards. I guess now I have to follow the same policy with back cover blurbs. It does talk about the slavery issue.

Rafael wrote: "..This information is right. We, shamely, were the last to do it.."

The U.S.A. was able to do it 25 years earlier only through a Civil War that killed 620,000 of our population. There is plenty of shame to pass around.

Brian wrote: "Rafael wrote: "..This information is right. We, shamely, were the last to do it.."

The U.S.A. was able to do it 25 years earlier only through a Civil War that killed 620,000 of our population. The..."

You are right.

I am reading this rather slowly. It is not the fault of the book.

The first chapters are describing the characters involved in his life. Which I find the Uncle quite a character.

This Penguin Classic edition is going to test my Roman Numeral skills!

There are a lot of short chapters in this book. You'll be an expert when you are finished, Lesle.
I like the detailed description of his family and his younger years. It gave me a real idea what the society of the time was like in middle class Brazilians.

I agree, I like when they do that, you really get a good idea of who they are!

I liked that he rebuilt his home to the specifics of when he was growing up with faded pictures and all.

Lesle wrote: "I am reading this rather slowly. It is not the fault of the book.

The first chapters are describing the characters involved in his life. Which I find the Uncle quite a character.

This Penguin Cla..."

Indeed. The uncle is quite a character.

Bento's jealously seems to be his biggest demon.

Lesle wrote: "Bento's jealously seems to be his biggest demon."

Indeed.

With his jealousy raging it is hard to understand if his story telling isnt a bit clouded.

I remember one part there was a small blurb about Capitu's image laying next to him (so obsessed). Just to be seen with her by others he felt he was envied by others.

When they first marry everything seems good his only regret is not having a son. Capitu seems happy with learning the piano and dancing.

On to Chapter XCVII (97?) what is C? oh dear...

You figured out the Roman Numerals,Lesle!

I really had to think! Its been a long time since I was that high in RN!

Rosemarie am I close with Benito's cloudy story telling?

He really doesn't seem to trust anyone.

The narrator uses "Dear Reader" or "Lovely Reader" quite often. Making the story telling fun that he is talking directly to you.

I was going to mention this earlier and as I find myself often...forgetful. lol

Indeed. He often breaks (or tries to) the 4th wall.

"C"

Well just when I thought Benito was going to behave and have a normal and happy life,
with the birth of his son Ezequiel and the happy tales he tells us readers from birth through five years the demon of jealousy seemed to have gone by the wayside.
Than low and behold the next chapter explains nope it has not left him at all!

By the way it is a good thing he did not use the meatballs. I was pretty upset that he was going there.

I have completed the story. A story from the perspective of Benito and his tale of his love for Capitu whom he loved from childhood.
I found Benito to be just like any other human for retelling of a tale from their version of instances that took place.
Not sure he is "Unreliable" I found him to be telling his life from his memories maybe a little clouded from his mind playing the jealousy game.
As a romance story I found it lacking. It is a romance but not the same as I am used to from a female's perspective.
The end left me wandering, did Benito just live to be living or did he live a fulfilling life after his loss.