North & South discussion

Well, this one is pretty self-explanatory! Anyone who wants to participate in this discussion, just keep an eye on Thornton (I'm guessing that's a pretty irrelevant request :D) and see if you can count how many times a smile crosses his face during the series. You can count smiles-per-episode or the number of Thornton-smiles in the whole series, but either way I'll be interested to see how much variation we get in our answers. :) Thanks to Trudy for this brilliant suggestion!

Do we count his half-smiles? Those are the most adorable, at least for me :)

You can count whichever way you like! :) I'm certainly going to count his half smiles, because they're far too adorable to be left out. ;)

Sooooo...this is my esimation:

Episode one - 10x
Episode two - 10x
Episode three - 1x, and for that one I'm not sure. It was an episode of perpetual scowl :D :D
Episode four - 17x and those were mostly from the last scene because he was smiling like an idiot...and he looked so damn sexy doing it :D

Good work Samanta! I'm just about to start my count myself, so we'll see how similar our results are! Oh, and I absolutely love your description of Episode Three! It's official. Episode Three is "The Episode of Perpetual Scowling." :D Loved the way you described the final scene, too! I'm definitely going to have trouble counting during that one. :)

Can we have a special mention of the beginning of episode two where he speaks to Margaret for the first time in somewhat friendly terms when she tries to interview some of the young girls who work for him? He smiles there, but also looks all kinds of good :)

I love that smile! Completely aside from the fact that it's way beyond awkward for Margaret. :D To be fair to Thornton though, he has spoken to her in a friendly way before... the start of Episode Two is just the first time she really speaks nicely back. :)

Right, here's my estimation: (Noting that I didn't include the final scene in Thornton's Smile Count, giving me an excuse to go back and watch that scene again tomorrow. ;) )

Episode 1: 16
Episode 2: 16
Episode 3: 1? Maybe? Hopefully?
Episode 4: 18

I think the difference between the two estimations so far would be that I may have extended my definition of "smile" to "any time Thornton's lips looked like they might be even thinking about tending in an upwards direction." :D Okay, so I wasn't quite that bad, but I'm sure you all know what I mean. I can be quite hard to count smiles, especially when you get caught up in watching, forget to count, and have to go back!

You found sixteen in the first two? wow! :D

Wow, good eyes. I haven't started watching yet.
I didn't realize how dismal episode three is. Everything is crashing down around Thornton.
I don't suppose anyone smiles much in that episode.

Oh, my gosh, I knew there was something else I had too do in November. Oh nooo, I must find some time and the movie to watch again.

I only counted 3 full smiles in episodes 1 and 2 and each one is followed by Margaret arguing with him! Episode 3 is heartbreaking. I'm only a little bit into it and no smiles so far.

@ Samanta: Yes, but as I said my definition of a smile was somewhat extended. :D

@ Trudy: I always knew that Episode Three was the most dismal, but that reality hits you very hard when you're counting Thornton's smiles! You end up thinking "Come on Thornton, just one little smile, please? Just one?" Not a very happy episode. :(

@ Marren: I'm sure you'll manage somehow. :)

@ Qnpoohbear: You're right, there aren't too many full smiles from Thornton are there? Most of them are half-smiles of some sort. You know what would be interesting? Seeing how much Margaret smiles by comparison. I imagine she'd smile a little more than John, but I'd guess the ratio of smiles per episode would be about the same.

Smmile count in ep 4 goes waay up! I counted about 16 and a half smiles. Most at the end of course but there was one for the beggar girl, two for the Boucher boy and some long ones for Higgins. Then finally smiles for Margaret. *sigh*

Thank goodness for Episode Four! :) Even without counting the final scene I found about eighteen smiles, (with my loose definition of a smile) which I must say was relief after the essentially smile-less territory of Episode Three.

The one where he smiles at the Boucher boy is one of my very favourites...aside from the ones at the end when he's with Margaret, of course!

That's one of my favourites too. :) There's something so... deliberately gentle about the way he smiles at children, it's so lovely and endearing.

I know!!! *sigh*

I counted 10 full smiles over the whole, and most were in the last scene... though I admit to a few half smiles in between that were very endearing.

Anne wrote: "The one where he smiles at the Boucher boy is one of my very favourites...aside from the ones at the end when he's with Margaret, of course!"

I like that one too because it's sincere and he's amused by the boy's seriousness. I think he sees a lot of himself in young Tom and the scene gives us an idea of what kind of father Thornton will be.

The smiles at the very end- especially while M is explaining her business proposal (and he's not listening) are so delicious!

Qnpoohbear wrote: "I like that one too because it's sincere and he's amused by the boy's seriousness. I think he sees a lot of himself in young Tom..."

I've always thought that too! That he sees a lot of himself in Thomas, I mean. :) I think that's why he's so concerned about the boy getting an education, because he knows how important it is, having been taken out of school himself when his father died. And I think Thornton would make an amazing father, I really do.

Oh, those smiles at the end! They are indescribably perfect, and so beautifully happy and full of love... *sigh* I think John was listening to her though - kind of - because you can see the hope and the gratitude and the happiness written all over his face, growing as her business proposal and her nervousness make it clear how she feels.

I took a recount of episode 1 and 2:
John reserves his most sincere smiles for his mother and Margaret (or thinking of Margaret). He smiles sort of insincerely at the other Masters at their first meeting where Mr. Hale is present. Then he smiles at his mother (twice) when he tells her Miss Hale is an accomplished young lady and his mother tells him what a great catch he is. Finally, he smiles at the Hales when Margaret is serving tea (ooh he's got it bad already!) and at Mrs. Hale's description of the wallpaper.

Episode 2:
He smiles at his mother knowing almost more about the factory than he does after she sends the sick child home to be changed out for the next child.
He sort of smiles while he explains his business practices to Margaret on the street after she was questioning the mill girls.
Then he sort of smiles while discussing the party with his mother, like "It makes you happy and it makes me happy to make you happy even if I'm not into socializing with those other masters." He really smiles to himself at the thought of marrying Margaret.
In the party scene he smiles while welcoming the guests, he smiles at Margaret when she shakes his hand and gives a half smile to Mr. Bell during the discussion and I believe he even bestows a sort of smile on Margaret when she's debating with him.
Finally, he smiles a half smile when he comes to propose. *sigh* he's so uncertain of what she'll say...

I didn't catch any smiles in Ep. 3
The party scene features a few smiles: at his guests

I agree with your count Qnpoohbear, regarding the number and the fact that he´s mostly smiling at his mother or Margaret (or thinking of her). There are some unnatural smiles though too. Ep. 3 has no smiles at all, ep. 4 the most of them (I ceased counting lol).

He tries hard to be polite to people he doesn't like, especially the other masters. RA does such a fabulous job telling us Thronton's emotions with just his body language.