SFF Readalongs led by Kitty G discussion

Discussion of chapters 8 & 9 of the book ONLY, no spoilers for any other parts of the book please!

Chapter 8 is pretty short. Whiskeyjack and the Bridgebunners are on Lake Azur and Whiskeyjack makes his own plans instead of Lassen's on infiltrating Darujhistan and Hairlock updated Quick Ben.
Chapter 9 is a whole lot longer, Lorne comes back into things as she is saved on her way to Pale by Toc the Younger and Ono's a T'lan Imass. When she gets to Pale she see's Tayschrenn and Dujeck are not getting along morale is low. Lorne and Dujeck go over battle plans. Tayschrenn wants rid of Dujeck but she convinces he's worth keeping. Lorne also is there to investigate the Hound of Shadow attack Gear. Tattersail is summoned to join Toc, Dujeck, Tayschrenn and Lorne to dinner where Lorne brings up old history on Tattersail blaming her for the loss of her family and wanting to kill Tattersail but the group talks her down cause she is Adjunct. Tattersail then explains the night with Gear and lies to conceal Paran and Toc bails her out in the lie. Toc seems to be having trouble accepting his new high position in the Claw. Lorne and the T'lan Imass head to Darujhistan to seek sorry and destroy the Bridgebunners and so does Tattersail to intervene while Paran hides out. I noticed now in Chapter 7 in Kruppe's dream with K'rul and he said he was there to await the one to be awakened. he told him to seek the woman and T'lan Imass they are the awakeners.(Lorne&Tool) Hhmm I wonder whats going on there? So is Tattersail and Paran gonna be more romantically evolved? What was Crone flying to Brood for? Is Tattersail gonna make it back to Pale to Paran? What will the Gods do next? Lots of Questions.

The thing that I am most impressed so far with this book and Erikson in general is his ability to put people in a room together that really should just be killing each other because all of them are really only looking out for themselves. Not only are they not killing each other but they are having these intense dialogues with so much meaning and hidden meaning in them. Basically, another author would have created like 3 fight scenes during chapter 9, which would be the easy thing to do but Erikson decides to just write these incredibly tense and revealing scenes that have nothing but dialogue in them but it is just so obvious that this entire Empire is held together in tatters.

In a world where war and people dying seem to be the norm, I am just impressed with how well the entire cast is at surviving.

That dinner scene was just great.

Excellent, I'm not too late to the game :)

So I really enjoyed chapter 9 in particular as I felt like we got a lot of insight into where things might be going (might being the key word). I really enjoyed Toc's timely arrival in time to save Lorn and I enjoyed the introduction of the T'lan Imass (Tool) who seems pretty exciting. I am assuming that they are some kind of weird, shape-shifting race because they seem to be able to disintegrate into dust, and I think that's a really cool thing to picture! I was also highly entertained by the way that Tool answered Lorn's questions and revealed the potential threat of other Imass (Kron) and the implications of their arrival.
I am highly intrigued by the Three Hundredth Millennium and Diaspora because they both sound rather epic and exiting, so we shall see where that is going sometime in the future I am sure.

I also wanted to comment on the dinner scene which I felt was handled incredibly well and with lots of care taken not only to stop a fight, but to allow a very tense and wary conversation, which actually seems to reveal a lot. It seems as though there are many characters who really dislike one another and yet each of them manages to take part in the chat easily and show something intriguing or foreboding.
Tattersail's lies seem to be in order to cover for Paran, and I am very interested in why Toc felt the need to cover up her lies for her. I think there's certainly more to their backstory which I think we shall see sometime and I believe that there's a level of respect there.
I also think there's respect between Tayschrenn and Lorn as he seemed to be very happy with her arrival and takeover, and I feel as though he genuinely was relieved by her intervention. I am looking forward to seeing what happens after she leaves Pale and whether he shall still show respect for her wishes.
Lorn and Tattersail clearly have a history and something very bad went on with them which we see hints and glimpses at and this reminded me of the earlier chapter where Tattersail remembered some of the other horrors she'd been a part of. It seems like she's been through some very horrific things, and I am interested in how the reminders of these things will affect her ability to perform.
Onearm Dujeck is a character whom I really enjoy and I think he's a highly engaging character too as he's always in control and a calming presence at the table. He also seems to have issues with Tayschrenn (as does Tattersail) so really almost everyone is agains Tayschrenn which I think is amusing (I don't really like him either!)

Crone is a very peculiar character and one who I feel is certainly working to bigger things and know far more than she lets on. I will be watching her story as we continue and seeing what happens there.

Equally Paran's story seems a little halted here as he's not supposed to be alive and has to stay hidden, but of course this is made more exciting by the fact that now he seems to be romantically involved with Tattersail (who I thought was in another relationship not that long ago? Ah well, take what you can get in wartime eh?)

I'm looking forward to seeing where Hairlock follows Lorn and Tool to and what will commence once they reach (if they reach) Darujistan. I like that the two plots and casts of characters are becoming more interwoven and intertwined slowly, and I'm excited to see what happens with the Bridgeburners and Sorry and all the drama that's building there.

Overall my enjoyment of this chapter (long as it may have been) was very high and I am interested in continuing on asap :)

Josh wrote: "I noticed now in Chapter 7 in Kruppe's dream with K'rul and he said he was there to await the one to be awakened. he told him to seek the woman and T'lan Imass they are the awakeners.(Lorne&Tool)"

Yes, Josh. That's a very good pick-up and another great example of how Erikson works.
When you first read the dream sequence you don't really know what it's all about, but when you retain some of the information it will be useful in future chapters/books as here f.e.

This poem by Toc The Younger gives an insight into why Whiskeyjack chose to stay in the Empire. Yes he was busted down to sergeant. But still he remains, to act as a symbol of defiance and a constant reminder of Laseen's bloody taking of the throne. But in so doing, he doesn't really realize the price he must pay to do this, and it is a terrible thing he must suffer for it. But all the same, he must, because he is a Bridgeburner, and they're not in the habit of making things easy for those that oppose them.

"I thought your munitions were getting scarce."

"Selectively, Bird That Steals. You are well known to us, Bridgeburner. You tread the enemy's shadow. From the Moranth, assisstance will never be scarce."

One of my absolute favorite things about Erikson, that he pulls off time and time again in these books, is the way he basically has one character say to another 'I got your back'. The sentiment basically boils down to that statement. But Erikson over and over again makes it sound incredibly meaningful, and in a world with great horror, and betrayal, and malice, such a statement from one to another carries such weight. That despite the terror of this world, we still can look out for eachother. There is great weight in that, even in the most minor of instances it occurs. I love it. This is one reason why Deadhouse Gates is one of the best books in the universe. It, at its very most basic sense, is one gigantic 'I got your back.'

And holy HELL that Moranth just called Whiskeyjack 'Bird That Steals.' I did not know that was in this book. That is utterly amazing, and I can't even say why.

We also get a sense of the different perspectives of ethics and morality in this world. The Moranth are originally portrayed as ruthless in their culling of Pale. But then we learn here that it is not without reason, that they are simply enacting a revenge they feel they are owed because of Pale's transgressions against them. Is it right? A matter of perspective.

Fiddler and Hedge briefly survey their new collection of Moranth munitions. Remember that early in the book, it was mentioned that the alliance between the Moranth and the Malazans marked a fundamental change in the science of how warfare was conducted. Malazan sappers with Moranth munitions is one of the biggest reasons why, and a deadly combination.

Quick Ben seeks a sorcerous council with Hairlock to get an update on matters. They meet on The Spar of the Andii. And Quick Ben sees that Hairlock is getting very fast and loose with his travels through the warrens, flirting both with Chaos, and with native realms that might not like his trespassing. We are updated on the aftermath of Tattersail and Paran's encounter with Gear, and they muse on Paran's ability to hurt Gear with his sword, something that shouldn't have been possible. Hairlock comments on Tayschrenn and his intentions, and all Quick Ben can do is have Hairlock stick with the High Mage.

The chapter closes with another scene that I think is hysterical, and makes me feel closer to the Bridgeburners. Whiskeyjack, Kalam, and Quick Ben approach the rest of the squad, seeing only Trotts attempting to pull the boat into the water, while the rest of the squad watches. Whiskeyjack turns the tables, chiding them for loading the boat before its in the water, and then making all of them except Trotts haul the boat into the water, including Kalam and Quick Ben.

Toc the Younger (whose dad is predictably named Toc the Elder), Lorn, and the T'lan Imass Onos T'oolan all meet, and what a trio that makes. We learn that Toc's father was of signficant renown in the Emperor's day, and at the very least, vanished following the Emperor's death.

Onos gives himself a breathy introduction and really? SIX Jaghut wars? Before Lorn cuts him off. The undead Onos T'oolan, like the rest of his kind are old, DAMN old. So old you better believe it plays with their heads. We also catch a line here that at least a significant portion of the undead army has deserted the Empire on a mission that not even Laseen knows anything about, which gets expanded on later.

We get a very succinct explanation of the nature of the otataral ore and its application. We also know
that it doesn't work on the magics of the T'lan Imass, otataral is not without its limitations.

Haha, chapter 9 is a long one, so I'm going to skip alot of stuff, and Josh, Paul, and Kaitlin have all made salient points that I won't bother trying to improve upon.

One point worth noticing is Lorn's musing on the shaky ground the expansionist Malazan empire stands upon. The continent of Seven Cities is on the brink of rebellion, and with the non optimal progression of things in the Genabackan campaign, things could turn sour for the Malazans pretty fast.

Paran and Tattersail's romance was always a sort of 'huh?' moment to me. I never really quite bought it.

There's a section where Lorn and Tayschrenn discuss the necessity of destroying what's left of the old guard that is loyal to the memory of the Emperor. Bridgeburners and those like them must die if this new form of the Empire is to survive, the lone exception being Dujek. If they aren't careful enough, they may face open insurrection which they will likely not survive. Tayschrenn comments:

"Apart from Dujek and Tattersail, we've cleaned out everyone else. As for Whiskeyjack and his squad, they're all yours, Adjunct."

Even in death, as the Emperor has shown us, memory can linger and be a tool of inspiration and loyalty. Who is 'everyone else' that Tayschrenn mentions? Well...

To put it mildly, the T'lan Imass have a beef with the Jaghut. We see here that the Emperor, and now Laseen manages a control over the armies of the T'lan Imass. Though they don't always obey. The full nature of their relationship with the Malazan Empire, particularly with the Emperor and after his death with Laseen, remains to be seen.

I already liked the book to commit myself to reading the entire series but Chapter 9 has singlehandedly made me fall in love with this book and series. There is so much depth to the chapter as has been discussed above. A high claim for being in the middle of the first book but this may become my favorite fantasy series.

One thing I don't remember being mentioned in the comments is that some characters have a second sense about them and they have cues to when that sense is active. Once the reader learns the cues it is cool to come across them and note what event has made the cue active. Toc the Younger's itching wound is one that I first noticed in the dinner scene and as a guess I wonder if it also signifies a meddling god (Oponn?).