THE WORLD WAR TWO GROUP discussion

The April 2020 theme read is any book or books of your choice that covers a first-hand account from the Second World War.

A-Train: Memoirs of a Tuskegee Airman by Charles W. Dryden



The author was in the second group of pilot trainees from Tuskegee Army Air Field to win his wings as a United States Army Air Force (USAAF) fighter pilot on April 29, 1942.

Dryden would be assigned to the 99th Pursuit Squadron and see action in North Africa, Sicily, and Italy. On June 9, 1943, he would lead a flight of six P-40 fighters in combat over the island of Pantelleria against Luftwaffe fighters. This would mark the first time that the Tuskegee Airmen would encounter the enemy in aerial combat.

KOMET wrote: "A-Train: Memoirs of a Tuskegee Airman by Charles W. Dryden



The author was in the second group of pilot train..."

I hope its a good story Komet, keep us all posted.

For this theme month I'm thinking of finally tackling this 600+ page book:

Generalfeldmarschall Fedor Von Bock: The War Diary, 1939-1945 by Klaus Gerbet

Looks like I'm just in time for this months read!

Helmet for My Pillow: From Parris Island to the Pacific

Might give Quartered Safe Out Here by William Manchester a try

I guess I’m a little ahead of the game being about halfway through Guy Sajer’s the Forgotten Soldier on audio book. I read it a couple of times when I was younger and I decided to revisit it.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...

How about this one?


I just downloaded it from Amazon for $1.99. My best friend's dad fought on Peleliu as a member of the 81st Division and he used to regale us with stories during sleepovers as a boy. I finally discovered With Old Breed: Peleliu and Okinawa a few years ago. This was one of the finest books I've ever read on any subject. It made me feel closer to one of my boyhood heroes. I am hoping that this book captures at least some of the magic.

Jason wrote: "Might give Quartered Safe Out Here by William Manchester a try"

Quartered Safe Out Here: A Harrowing Tale of World War II is by George MacDonald Fraser. Nevertheless, I would highly recommend it.

Jason wrote: "Might give Quartered Safe Out Here by William Manchester a try"
Do you mean by George McDonald Fraser? If so, an excellent account.

Jason wrote: "Might give Quartered Safe Out Here by William Manchester a try"

Excellent account Jason, enjoy and best of luck...

Some great books being mentioned here for the theme read! I'm looking forward to some interesting posts and discussions as the month goes on.

I’ve been meaning to read one from my shelf, Combat Veterans: Stories from WWII by Norman Black. The book includes the story of a dear friend and WWII veteran, Dick Bailey. No better time than now to read the rest.

Rona wrote: "I’ve been meaning to read one from my shelf, Combat Veterans: Stories from WWII by Norman Black. The book includes the story of a dear friend and WWII veteran, Dick Bailey. No better time than now ..."

Sounds like the perfect book for the theme read Rona!

Well I've started my theme book; "Generalfeldmarschall Fedor Von Bock: The War Diary, 1939-1945". I was initially worried that the book may be made up of just short dry diary entries but so far it hasn't been too bad. The first short chapter was some biographical notes on von Bock and then the diary proper started with the period May/June 1939 to 3 October 1939, so covering the events leading up to the Invasion of Poland, the actual campaign and then Poland's surrender.

Generalfeldmarschall Fedor Von Bock: The War Diary, 1939-1945 by Klaus Gerbet

I found a few of von Bock's diary entries from the Polish campaign quite interesting:

8/9/39
I informed Brauchitsch that my Reserve divisions are not yet ready to be used against a serious opponent; officers and training not up to the task. Experience from the fighting: artillery to the front, then concentrated fire. The Poles can't bear that. Infantry good; march performances outstanding; but too timid in their first engagement! "That comes from years of being trained to be cautious, which I always opposed!" Its better that the infantry get its feet wet straightaway.

"Sharp Objection"
After sending a written report yesterday or the day before, I filed a sharp objection with the Commander-in-Chief of the Army against the unmilitary style of radio propaganda and army communiques ("notorious Pomorska Brigade," horror stories, "dashing attack.")

Drove to command post of the 21st Division north of Nowogrod. The Division is good, but tired. The enemy sitting in concrete bunkers near Nowogrod; our own heavy artillery has not yet arrived; nothing more will happen today.

Indescribable road conditions; unbelievable delays and traffic jams!

I was able to present the first Iron Cross of this war to a Private First Class of the 94th Regiment who acted bravely at Graudenz. The young man beamed; too beautiful these lads!

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "I found a few of von Bock's diary entries from the Polish campaign quite interesting:

8/9/39
I informed Brauchitsch that my Reserve divisions are not yet ready to be used against a serious opponen..."

"...(T)oo timid in their first engagement! "That comes from years of being trained to be cautious..."

Perhaps it comes from being shot at?

That's a very valid point MR9 :)

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "That's a very valid point MR9 :)"

I think being shot at breeds caution.

Manray9 wrote: "'Aussie Rick' wrote: "That's a very valid point MR9 :)"

I think being shot at breeds caution."

It would in me that's for sure!

Another entry from von Bock's diary concerning the Polish campaign:


Principles of Military Doctrine
Infantry must have their heavy weapons when they attack, but then they must advance quickly and without pause. Artillery and heavy weapons must be kept close at hand. Even during an advance they belong far to the front, especially since moving artillery past a march column is often impossible. The old catchphrase, "the infantry must wait until the artillery arrives," is wrong! It should say, "the artillery may not keep the infantry waiting!" Anything else makes good decisions impracticable, causes many opportunities to be missed. The artillery must also be kept close during the attack. It is not enough if the infantry regimental commander is standing next to the artillery battalion commander, contact must first and foremost be sought up front. In the attack individual batteries belong far to the front, in the midst of the infantry.

Where these principles are followed, as for example by the II Army Corps [Strauss], all resistance is bowled over; where they are ignored weak enemy forces have often held us up for too long. Our combat manuals should be shortened by half. They should contain a few clear principles. Then we can demand that everyone master them.

Today I once again took the opportunity to speak to the army commanders and to the officers of I Army Corps [Petzel] gathered in Ginki about training the field forces to seize the initiative.

Good stuff.
During an operation did they have Forward Observers down to company level.

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Another entry from von Bock's diary concerning the Polish campaign:


Principles of Military Doctrine
Infantry must have their heavy weapons when they attack, but then they must advance quickly and..."

Good extracts from his diaries AR. Original historical accounts, when done right, are my favorite reads.

I am going to start this theme with:

Fighter Pilot: The First American Air Ace of World War II by William R. Dunn

Resistance by Agnes Humbert is her account of dealing with Nazi occupation in France...

Mike wrote: "I am going to start this theme with:

Fighter Pilot: The First American Air Ace of World War II by [autho..."

Should be an exciting read Mike, keep us posted.

Chapter two of "Generalfeldmarschall Fedor Von Bock: The War Diary, 1939-1945" covers the period in between the fall of Poland and the invasion of France. During one trip to Berlin for planning of the invasion of the Low Countries von Bock made this entry:

20/11/39
Night trip to Koblenz in the train of the Commander-in-Chief of the Army [Brauchitsch]. There I heard stories about the "colonization" of the east, which shocked me deeply. If they continue to act this way there, these methods will one day turn against us!

Chapter two again from von Bock's dairy:

19/4/40
Exercise by elements of the 9th Panzer Division with a regiment of the SS Motorized Division at Senne; afterward dropped in on the training course for company commanders in the camp. Combat training of the NCOs and enlisted men of the SS is insufficient; that will cost much blood! A pity - such magnificent manpower!

I've just finished chapter 3 of "Generalfeldmarschall Fedor Von Bock: The War Diary, 1939-1945" which covered the invasion of the Low Countries and France: 10 may 1940 to 11 September 1940. A few insights from von Bock:

2/6/40
Drove to regimental command post on the Dunkirk Front, to the headquarters of the X Corps, and to the command post of the famous 18th Division, which was just attacking Bergues. Dunkirk had been fortified more heavily in peacetime than we knew; several rings of defensive lines with heavy wire obstacles in places and a number of concrete bunkers. The scene on the roads used by the English retreat was indescribable. Huge quantities of motor vehicles, guns, combat vehicles, and army equipment were crammed into a very small area and driven together. The English had tried to burn everything, but in their haste they succeeded only here and there. There lies the material of an army whose completeness of equipment we poor wretches can only gaze at with envy.

One funny account from von Bock's war diary:

Accommodations in Brussel's Hotel Metropole were excellent. It was surely uncomfortable for the owner, having a headquarters in his usually well-cared-for house with all the inevitable disturbances, guards, telephones, etc. I expressed my regrets to the cultivated, unfailingly courteous man and I was pleased to be able to arrange some preferential treatment for him in the future assignment of quarters. Before we left, I had a special instruction issued to hr men staying in the hotel that they were to leave their quarters in spotless condition and that they might take nothing, not even small items, with them. When I arrived in Havrincourt, I discovered that my batman had draped all the walls of my room with my things, hung neatly on coat hangers. But on closer inspection it unfortunately turned out that all the hangers belonged to the Hotel Metropole! I was thus probably the only one who had misappropriated anything there! The mishap was corrected as quickly as possible.

Generalfeldmarschall Fedor Von Bock: The War Diary, 1939-1945 by Klaus Gerbet

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "One funny account from von Bock's war diary:

Accommodations in Brussel's Hotel Metropole were excellent. It was surely uncomfortable for the owner, having a headquarters in his usually well-cared-..."

That is funny!

This old fighter pilot is a good author, storyteller, mischief-maker. Lots of good stories, not all believable or, at least, exaggerated. His road to the RAF will take him into the US Army Infantry, the Canadian Army (mortar squad), France 1940, and then back to England all before he has a real opportunity to fly.

He goes to Canada in September 1939 to get into the RCAF. No can do but the RCAF adjutant in Vancouver recommends he join the Army and try from there later:

(view spoiler)[ So it was to be the infantry for me once again-damn it to hell! For some reason I just couldn’t manage to get into anyone’s air force. My past infantry training was bound to be of some value, of course, but I wanted more than anything to fly.

Later I found out the RCAF squadron adjutant had a brother, a lieutenant, in the Seaforths. I’ll always wonder if that suggestion of his wasn’t given to help fill the ranks of his brother’s regiment. All recruiters, including adjutants, are sneaky guys.

So I went to the Seaforth Highlanders’ barracks that afternoon to enlist. I was directed to see a Sergeant Major Shipperbottom, a veteran of the First World War, who stared down his nose and over his bushy mustache at me. “Where are you from?” he snapped. I again explained that I was an American volunteer who had come to Canada to help fight their war.

“Can’t accept you,” the sergeant major said, “but if you go walk around the block, come back in here, and are from someplace in Canada, I’ll sign you up.”

I walked around the block, returned to the armory, and again stood before Shipperbottom. “Where are you from now?” he asked.

“Moosejaw,” I replied-it was the only town name I could think of at the moment.

“Where the hell is Moosejaw?” he questioned.

“How the hell do I know?” I answered, a bit peeved.

“It’s in Saskatchewan Province-and don’t you ever forget it!” he told me. “Now that we’ve got that settled you can enlist. Sign here, for the duration.”

And so I enlisted for the duration of the war in the Seaforth Highlanders, a Scottish infantry regiment of the 3rd Brigade, 1st Canadian Division. (hide spoiler)]

Fighter Pilot: The First American Air Ace of World War II

I've learned that the Canadian Army (just the Seaforths?) had an annual Vimy dinner, to commemorate the WWI battle. Here is Dunn's exposure to the dinner in England:

(view spoiler)[ Speaking of the sergeants’ mess, we held a Vimy Dinner one evening-an annual affair-commemorating the famous battle of the First World War. We wanted roast pork for the dinner; however, since all meat was rationed, we had some difficulty in finding a farmer who would discreetly sell us a live pig. After considerable maneuvering, we finally got the pig into the back of a truck where the medical and mess sergeants were waiting to administer the coup de grace. To be humane, it was decided the medical sergeant would chloroform the pig before the mess sergeant cut its throat. The pig fought back, and although several of us held his kicking legs, we were nearly all gassed before the medic and his chloroform were successful. The mess sergeant began the throat cutting and the pig came alive once again, covering everyone with bloody gore before he finally gave up the ghost.

Back at the mess, the pig’s entrails were disposed of by stuffing them down a sewer drain. We didn’t realize that English drain pipes were so small, so the entrails caused a jam in the sewer. When workmen came to unclog the pipe, they found the entrails, which they believed to be those of a human being. The police were called in and a full-scale investigation began, but all came to a halt when we confessed.

We had our Vimy Dinner, we had our roast pork-but it was almost impossible to eat because every bite smelled of chloroform. (hide spoiler)]

Mike wrote: "This old fighter pilot is a good author, storyteller, mischief-maker. Lots of good stories, not all believable or, at least, exaggerated. His road to the RAF will take him into the US Army Infantry..."

Great story, Mike! Thanks for sharing.

Mike wrote: "This old fighter pilot is a good author, storyteller, mischief-maker. Lots of good stories, not all believable or, at least, exaggerated. His road to the RAF will take him into the US Army Infantry..."

I really his story of trying to enlist :)

Mike wrote: "I've learned that the Canadian Army (just the Seaforths?) had an annual Vimy dinner, to commemorate the WWI battle. Here is Dunn's exposure to the dinner in England:

Speaking of the sergeants’ m..."

That's another great story, thanks for sharing Mike :)

Mike wrote: "I've learned that the Canadian Army (just the Seaforths?) had an annual Vimy dinner, to commemorate the WWI battle. Here is Dunn's exposure to the dinner in England:

Speaking of the sergeants’ m..."

Good one, Mike.

Fighter pilots tend to exaggerate, (maybe even before they are pilots). Dunn's base is attacked by Stukas. He sees the Lewis AAA gunner get killed and the loader wounded so he jumps into the gun pit. He later claims two Stukas shot down. The first seems like a valid kill. The second is less easy to accept. I have tried to imagine this engagement and the physics just don't seem to work:

(view spoiler)[ A second Stuka was now diving down on our camp, and it looked to me like he intended to lay a bomb right in my hole. I ducked down, flattening myself as best I could against the dirt wall and sandbags. I actually saw the bombs, two of them, fall clear of the Stuka. They hit the ground with a hell of a bang and blast, showering me with clods of dirt, stones and dust-near misses, damned near! As this Stuka pulled out of its dive almost directly over my gun pit, I took a good long deflection shot at it. The aircraft flew right through my bullet stream and I saw some of the bullet strikes on its engine cowling and fuselage. It seemed to falter in the air for a brief moment, then nosed down smoking, leveled out, and crash-landed. (hide spoiler)]

Going from lying down to having the bombs go off close to him and then getting back on the gun to shoot the Stuka does not seem to be possible unless the bombs were a good distance away and he wasn't laying down. If the bombs were close to him, the aircraft wouldn't be. You have to get out of the bomb frag pattern or risk being downed by your own bombs. The timing also doesn't work for me. But it's a great story.

The Americans and the British, two people separated by a common language:

(view spoiler)[ One day when Gordon Barr, a platoon friend of mine, and I were walking down a London street, a window opened and a rather pretty lady appeared in it. She shouted to a policeman standing on the corner, “Hey, copper! Come knock me up at eight tomorrow morning!” Gordy and I looked at each other in disbelief. Said Gordy, “I know these English are great for scheduling everything-but that is ridiculous.” We found out later she meant for the cop to awaken her at eight. Another time, during a blackout, my date and I were crossing a busy London street. Said I to her, “Be careful or you’ll get your fanny full of fender. ” She slapped me right in the kisser! How was I to know that a “fanny” in England refers to a lady’s very private parts? As you see, there are several pronounced differences between the English language and the version we Americans and Canadians speak. (hide spoiler)]

Fighter Pilot: The First American Air Ace of World War II

Two great stories Mike, I really enjoyed both, and us Infantry guys know that fighter jocks are born exaggerators 😂😂😂

Mike wrote: "I've learned that the Canadian Army (just the Seaforths?) had an annual Vimy dinner, to commemorate the WWI battle. Here is Dunn's exposure to the dinner in England:

Speaking of the sergeants’ m..."

Coincidently, Vimy by Pierre Berton just arrived in the mail today.

So time at last to weigh in, I'm reading

Red Star Against the Swastika: The Story of a Soviet Pilot over the Eastern Front

The Brave Japanese

I have started this tonight. Good so far. He starts his book at the end of the story with 3 paragraphs describing himself and 3 others approach and entry into Hiroshima. He writes “We four were the first non-Japanese into Hiroshima after the bomb, but we felt no sense of wither history or triumph. Our brother Man went by crippled and burned, and we knew only shame and guilt.”

With that rather poignant writing he heads to his time on the Malay Peninsula. After describing the Fifth Japanese division who the allied forces faced he wrote that “It was strictly amateurs versus professionals. Fortunately we were not aware of it”

Harrison then describes his time as a lance sergeant in 4th Anti-Tank Regiment during the battle of Gemas. His descriptions are well written and vivid. A couple of comrades are killed or badly wounded but they hold their position anyway.
He writes that “The pace was too hot and too deadly to last, of course, and after a while the fire died down. The last shot was fired at us; Joe fired back and did not miss. Either that, or they had had enough for the day. In any case, we were left in possession of the field.
Our heads were ringing but unbowed, and we had exactly four shells”

So ends chapter 2. There are some useful pics in this book. My copy is rather ancient, 1966, so they are interspersed in the narrative as opposed to the modern way of having a specific section.

Perfect timing! I just finished my most recent read yesterday, Britain's Band of Brothers, so I will start this title today: The Recollections Of Rifleman Bowlby by Alex Bowlby.

Sounds like some great theme books there Jonny, 4ZZZ and Gregg. I read Alex Bowldy's account of the fight to seize the Mignano Gap some many years back:

Countdown To Cassino: The Battle Of Mignano Gap by Alex Bowlby

I've started chapter 5 of "Generalfeldmarschall Fedor Von Bock: The War Diary, 1939-1945" which covers the period; 22 June 1941 to 5 January 1942. This is part of his dairy entry for 28th June 1941:

" ... Our losses are not inconsiderable, Thousands of Russian soldiers are sitting in the forests, fare behind our front, some in civilian clothes. They will eventually come out when they get hungry. But catching them all is impossible given the tremendous size of the area. 100 km behind the front, at Siemiatycze, the 293rd Division is still fighting for a row of strongly-fortified bunkers, which have to be taken one at a time. In spite of the heaviest fire and the employment of every means the crews refuse to give up. Each fellow had to be killed one at a time."

Generalfeldmarschall Fedor Von Bock: The War Diary, 1939-1945 by Klaus Gerbet

fourtriplezed wrote: "The Brave Japanese

“We four were the first non-Japanese into Hiroshima after the bomb, but we felt no sense of wither history or triumph. Our brother Man went by crippled and burned, and we knew only shame and guilt.” ..."

Interesting comments by former POWs who had witnessed some pretty cruel treatment at their captors hands, I imagine. Not what I would have expected them to feel.

This book just keeps getting better and better. Great action in the air and hijinks on the ground. Three British squadrons are heading over for a fighter sweep. A large force of German fighters have the same idea and they meet over the Channel. Dunn takes his Spitfire into the furball:

(view spoiler)[ Let me tell you it was some fight, with more than sixty fighters all milling around at full bore, all squirting cannon shells and machine gun bullets at each other. I had my Spit’s throttle firewalled and, with both hands on the spade grip of the control column, yanked her around in high-speed tight turns, dives, stall turns, half rolls, split-S and anything else I could do with her to keep from getting my rear end shot off or from ramming some other sod. I got off a quick squirt once in a while at a 109, but the action was so fast and furious that there wasn’t time to get on a Hun’s tail and stay there long enough to get in a good shot. About the time I fired a few rounds at a Kraut, one or two of them were firing at me.

Hauling my Spit around in a tight turn to port, some Squarehead let me have it good-bang!-right in the upper fuel tank, which was located just forward of the cockpit and windscreen. I caught a momentary glimpse of his yellow-nosed Me.109F as he dove past me, one of the “Abbeville Kids,” as we’d nicknamed the enemy pilots of Jagdgeschwader 26. Flames burst out from under my Spit’s engine cowling, gasoline fumes filled my cockpit, the whole works was about to explode in my face within the next few seconds. There was nothing to do but get the hell out of her before she blew.

The next thing I remember I was falling through the sky, still in the middle of the dogfight with aircraft whizzing by in all directions, with bullets flying every which way. “Don’t pull your parachute ripcord yet,” I told myself. “Wait until you’ve fallen clear of this mess.” So I waited until several seconds and a couple thousand feet had gone by, then I pulled the chute’s D-ring. (hide spoiler)]

Fighter Pilot: The First American Air Ace of World War II

Flying at night is dangerous, especially in wartime:

(view spoiler)[ A New Zealand night fighter pilot friend of mine, Guy Corbett, was vectored one dark night to intercept an unidentified bomber, which the sector controller declared to be “hostile.” Guy found the bomber in all that darkness by spotting the exhaust flame from its engines, gave it a good squirt, and sent it down blazing to crash a couple of miles from our airfield. About an hour or so later, when Guy had finished his night patrol and landed, he came rushing into the mess bar excitedly telling us all about his victory.

Before he’d gotten half through his story, he noticed several hardeyed, strange aircrew types bellied up to the bar. They were wearing flying suits and glared at him with some degree of hostility. Yes, it was the crew of the bomber Guy had shot down. They were British, their bomber was a four-engine Stirling, and, to say the least, they were all as mad as hornets. Luckily, they’d all parachuted safely, were picked up by Home Guard troops, and brought to our airfield mess.

Since the bomber crew was in our mess and somewhat outnumbered, the whole affair was satisfactorily settled when Guy offered his profound apology and bought drinks for the crew for several hours. In the wee hours of the morning, with the bomber types feeling no pain and having all the makings of a huge hangover, we poured them into a lorry and sent them safely home. We all wrote the incident off as an occupational hazard.

Those of us fighter pilots who were on dawn readiness that morning, after downing several cups of hot black coffee, were most thankful to sit quietly in our Spitfire cockpits for a bit sucking in pure oxygen to quickly sober us up. (hide spoiler)]

Fighter Pilot: The First American Air Ace of World War II

Mike wrote: "Interesting comments by former POWs who had witnessed some pretty cruel treatment at their captors hands, I imagine. Not what I would have expected them to feel. "

Me either. A completely different mind set from say Russell Brandon who I read recently. The title is meant to refer to the Japanese being brave soldiers. The author has already said that a couple of times. Other books I have read have never really described them as such.