The hopeful readers group discussion

Kindle edition on sale for 99cents (at least over here in Germany)!

Also, FAIR WARNING, this is a buddy read with at least two people who are most likely not going to like it. Just saying.

I can honestly say I don't know what it is, but I think the man's writing style just isn't for me. I haven't liked any of his books I've tried so far with the big exception of Good Omens: The Nice and Accurate Prophecies of Agnes Nutter, Witch (which is one of my favorite books, and I love it even more for the amazing TV show).

BUT. That being said, I did like the movie version of Stardust, so I'm giving the man one last chance :D

Who wants to join me? :D

I will not back out. ;)
I have not seen the Stardust movie, so I would go in as a virgin ;)
I have the book on my shelf for a couple of years, due to so much raving from others, but then left it out to dust after my unsuccessful attempts to read two other Neil Gaiman's books.

Good Omens: The Nice and Accurate Prophecies of Agnes Nutter, Witch did not work for me, my notes at the time were: "I assume one who knows English TV, Film, and other people can find this book humorous, I was just lost for most of the time."

And my last update on American Gods was "Well written, but it does not really reel me in. A bit scattered, too many things happening but not tying together. A tad too brutal for my taste. I am taking a break but have not given up on it, yet." - that was over a year ago and I have not picked it up again ...

Should we wait a day or two for possible other victims to join?

Let's :D I'd say Monday?

I'm joining! Victim number 1 taking a chance and trying this :D :D (or am I victim number 2 since you're the one who got us to read it Andrea?? ;))

I have never read any of Neil Gaiman's books but I've watched the movie Stardust and loved it so I'm hoping I'll like this one :D

So we have one who's read his books but didn't like them, seen the movie and liked it. And one who's read his books, didn't like them and never watched the movie. And then there's me, who loved the movie but never read any of his books. Should be interesting to see how we like this book!!

Oh yay! If all fails, we'll be miserable together :D:D:D

So, shall we start on Monday? Three chapters at a time or more? What do you say?

Andrea wrote: "Oh yay! If all fails, we'll be miserable together :D:D:D

So, shall we start on Monday? Three chapters at a time or more? What do you say?"

Monday sounds good (which means I will cheat and try to start today), and depending on how bad it is three chapter are probably sufficient to get terribly annoyed, or bored, or confused ... :)

:D Shhh, we don't want to scare Lacey ;))

Although it usually takes a bit longer for me, I usually start out thinking "oh, this is really cool and imaginative and such a good idea!!!" and then get bored ever so slowly because while the idea is still cool, the rest of it kind of doesn't grip me

Ok... I'm in but have the right to say "Uncle" when it gets too tedious. =))

Permission granted :D We all feel that way, don't worry :D

Gio wrote: "Ok... I'm in but have the right to say "Uncle" when it gets too tedious. =))"

Great! And I will always keep the right to refuse as well ;)

Andrea wrote: "Although it usually takes a bit longer for me, I usually start out thinking "oh, this is really cool and imaginative and such a good idea!!!" and then ge..."

It goes both ways for me. Either I give up during the first chapter (Good Omens: The Nice and Accurate Prophecies of Agnes Nutter, Witch) because I can not get into it, or I make it through half or even more just to think at one point "Why am I even reading this?"

Of course, Stardust will be an "oh, great! Oh, awesome! Oh, that's a fun read!"-book! ;)

Heike wrote: "Andrea wrote: "Although it usually takes a bit longer for me, I usually start out thinking "oh, this is really cool and imaginative and such a good idea!!!" and then ge..."

It goes both ways for m..."

I love your enthusiasm! I am going to need it. =))

Yes. Let's all stay positive :D

I read the first three chapters, it wasn't too dreadful ;)
Since there really is nothing happening in those chapters I can easily stay spoiler-free here.

Neil Gaiman likes to talk to his reader. I don't remember if he always does it or only in this book, but the bottom line is: I do not like it. He is talking to me, without me having the chance to voice my own thoughts, making him sound arrogant and patronizing.

There is Tristran, 6 month older than his sister. How does the family and village deal with a 6 month pregnancy? Why is nobody saying anything? It seems Tristran's origins may be common knowledge to the village, but obviously not to him. Is he THAT daft? And maybe he is.

I can't wait to find out what Dunstan's "Heart Desire" is. I do have the bad feeling that we may never find out, because Dunstan is only a side character. Or is he not?

And what's the deal with the hairy visitor in the barn? Is this for making up for word count?

And since Neil Gaiman is such a celebrated literate - how does the sentence "[...], and slept until he woke,[...]" sound to you (page 30)?

Cecilia's sentiment "I would not wish to marry someone who had already been married. It would be like having someone else break in one's own pony." was hilarious. The little word "own" made it a glee for all women! :)

I see myself a bit in a disadvantage (or advantage?) to all those who saw the movie and have less questions than I have.

Sorry, I barely finished chapter 1. My office dropped some last-minute work on me, and I had to figure out how to use yet another platform for online teaching (when I can barely use the first one…) and it overwhelmed me completely. I hate having to explain to other people that not knowing exactly what to expect when I have to use something new makes me panicky and cry…

Anyways. I don't think you're at a disadvantage. I barely remember the movie (I do have a suspicion what the heart's desire was, though…), just that I licked watching Michelle Pfeiffer and Robert De Niro bicker, and I know Henry Cavill was there. That's about it :D I might have to rewatch it after.

As for the writing, YES, that is annoying as hell. I feel exactly the same!

And yes, I think I remember Tristan being that stupid in the movie. I kept wondering how that was the same guy as the one who played Daredevil in the Netflix series. He was SO naive.

About the hairy visitor, I'm not sure. Not sure at all :D:D:D

"Neil Gaiman likes to talk to his reader.
Yes, I agree, and by doing this, Neil is interrupting the flow. The rhythm is off and why I have a hard time with his writing. Although I am enjoying it more this time because of the Buddy Read. (Thanks to all of you)

I am not sure you (Heike) are at a disadvantage for not seeing the movie as I find the differences are pretty significant.
Mainly the descriptions of the characters in the book do not match with the film.
The book world is more vibrant than the movie, and the characters are more quirky.
The hairy visitor will make another appearance. =))

"Own pony," hehehe! Very funny.

As to the six-month gap. Good Catch.
I did see that Tristran's mother was always staring at him like she was wondering who he is where he came from and what his father was up too. LOL

Referring to the heart's desire...Maybe watching the movie helped, I am not sure, but from the perspective of the book, Neil wants you to think that Tristran's heart's desire is Victoria.

Andrea wrote: "Sorry, I barely finished chapter 1. My office dropped some last-minute work on me, and I had to figure out how to use yet another platform for online teaching (when I can barely use the first one…)..."

Sorry, Andrea. No worries. Catch up when you can. :))

I read up to chapter 4, and it gets better. IMO. So good, in fact, I realized that I was supposed to stop at 3, only noticing that I read all of 4. OOPS =))

Gio wrote: "I read up to chapter 4, and it gets better. IMO. So good, in fact, I realized that I was supposed to stop at 3, only noticing that I read all of 4. OOPS =))"

I am reading on into chapter 4 as well.
The story is growing on me. The writing - not so much. There is a lot of "weird" talk, as if something just came into his (the authors) mind, and he spurts it out, regardless if it has a place in the story or not. This is the kind of surreal that does not work for my organized brain.

Andrea wrote: "Sorry, I barely finished chapter 1. My office dropped some last-minute work on me, and I had to figure out how to use yet another platform for online teaching (when I can barely use the first one…)..."

No worries. I feel with you, having to fight new technology is dreadful. I am still holding on to a graphic program that came with a scanner I bought 25 (yes, twenty-five!) years ago. And the worst of it is: I used to be a computer specialist before I came to the states to be a cowgirl (literally). Ha!

Heike wrote: " There is a lot of "weird" talk, as if something just came into his (the authors) mind, and he spurts it out, regardless if it has a place in the story or not. This is the kind of surreal that does not work for my organized brain. ."

OMG, YES!!! That is it!

Heike wrote: "No worries. I feel with you, having to fight new technology is dreadful. I am still holding on to a graphic program that came with a scanner I bought 25 (yes, twenty-five!) years ago. And the worst of it is: I used to be a computer specialist before I came to the states to be a cowgirl (literally). Ha! "

:D:D:D That is very comforting

Gio wrote: "I read up to chapter 4, and it gets better. IMO. So good, in fact, I realized that I was supposed to stop at 3, only noticing that I read all of 4. OOPS =)) .."

*GASP* :D I'm glad you're enjoying it

I read all the way to chapter 5, so I'm all caught up!

I agree, it's less annoying than the other books I tried, but still annoying here and there. Especially when a chapter has the headline like "where there is a lot of fighting over a crown". This has only not annoyed me once so far, and here it does. It's like "gee, thanks, so I don't really need to read this chapter then, do I?" sometimes. Or that might be a lack of caffeine talking. I should remedy that… :D

Other than that, I like that it's fast-paced. Some of his other books (looking at you, American Gods) just went on and on and ON. I like that :D

Hey!! Sorry only read 3 chapters so far but I'll catch up :)

I don't really like the way the author talks to the reader. It's not something I'm used to and I'm not really into it but the story so far is pretty interesting and I'm enjoying it so I'm hopefull I'll like it!

Heike, good one about the 6 months difference. I noticed it and thought to myself, why is no one wondering about him and how is HE not wondering about his origins??? He is daft! And I've always thought he was stupid in the movie :D at least he does change by the end of the movie, maybe he'll change by the end of the book as well.

Also, I'm noticing that there a lot of differences between the book and the movie. I'm curious to see which one I like best :)

It's been a long time since I watched the movie, what differences are there?

Andrea wrote: "I barely remember the movie (I do have a suspicion what the heart's desire was, though…), just that I licked watching Michelle Pfeiffer and Robert De Niro bicker, and I know Henry Cavill was there. That's about it :D I might have to rewatch it after. "

*uhm* I was caving and looking up the movie, possibly ordering it, but Robert De Niro? Michelle Pfeiffer? Not in there.

I finished it, but I will not spill anything. Neil Gaiman did almost quit talking down to his readers - good news ;)

General question: is this story telling style a bit like The Princess Bride or even Alice in Wonderland? I read neither one.

Andrea wrote: "It's been a long time since I watched the movie, what differences are there?"

In the movie, Dunsten never got married and it's never mentioned he was courting anyone. He's been living alone with Tristan and when Tristan wants to leave Wall, he tells him about his mother and gives him a letter she left him as well as a babylon candle to use to get to her but Tristan finds the star instead.

So, there's no Daisy and no Louisa and also, no hairy man. And like Gio said, the descriptions of the characters in the book do not match with the film.

Lacey wrote: "Andrea wrote: "It's been a long time since I watched the movie, what differences are there?"

In the movie, Dunsten never got married and it's never mentioned he was courting anyone. He's been livi..."

Well, at least there could be no question about a 6-month pregnancy, then ;)

Heike wrote: "*uhm* I was caving and looking up the movie, possibly ordering it, but Robert De Niro? Michelle Pfeiffer? Not in there. ..."

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0486655/...

Michelle Pfeiffer is someone called "Lamia" and Robert de Niro "Captain Shakespeare". They're both on the poster, too: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0486655/...

Heike wrote: "I finished it, but I will not spill anything. Neil Gaiman did almost quit talking down to his readers - good news ;)

General question: is this story telling style a bit like [book..."

Never read The Princess Bride (watched the movie, but. Meh. I did not love it like everyone else), and Alice is different. Waaaay different. You can listen to Alice for free at the moment. It's part of audible's "listen for free" collection. All you need is an amazon account to log in: https://www.audible.com/pd/Alices-Adv...
This version is read by Scarlett Johansson, and it's ok :)

Lacey wrote: "Andrea wrote: "It's been a long time since I watched the movie, what differences are there?"

In the movie, Dunsten never got married and it's never mentioned he was courting anyone. He's been livi..."

Lol. I clearly need to re-watch the movie. I don't even really remember what Henry Cavill does. Or what he looks like. Must be getting old :D

Andrea wrote: "Heike wrote: "*uhm* I was caving and looking up the movie, possibly ordering it, but Robert De Niro? Michelle Pfeiffer? Not in there. ..."

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0486655/......"

Oh - sorry. I looked at the first ten names, didn't expect them to be so far down the row!

Andrea wrote: "It's part of audible's "listen for free" collection. All you need is an amazon account to log in: https://www.audible.com/pd/Alices-Adv...
This version is read by Scarlett Johansson, and it's ok :)"

Oh - wow. There are quite a few classics I always wanted to read but never got to. It only streams, which is a bit of a nuisance (limited cell service cover here), but I will give it a shot! Thanks! :)

Heike wrote: "Andrea wrote: "Sorry, I barely finished chapter 1. My office dropped some last-minute work on me, and I had to figure out how to use yet another platform for online teaching (when I can barely use ..."

I agree and maybe overly judgemental with this, but it is like a child when they come up with random thoughts. They are funny and creative but usually out of the blue. LOL

I never thought of my brain as being organized before, but this is precisely how Neil's writing feels. Disorganized.

Although I will say it is good for TV or Movies.

Andrea wrote: "It's been a long time since I watched the movie, what differences are there?"

The Differences I have noticed.

The witch has dark hair and is wearing a red dress. The hairy man isn't so hairy in the movie. The wall and the guards are not anything like the movie.
The world is better in the book. The Ghost Lords are different.

I do not remember the movie being as gruesome as the book—also, no sex scenes. The film is very tame compared to the book.

Heike wrote: "Andrea wrote: "I barely remember the movie (I do have a suspicion what the heart's desire was, though…), just that I licked watching Michelle Pfeiffer and Robert De Niro bicker, and I know Henry Ca..."

The only film I know about has Michelle Pfeiffer and Robert De Niro. Also Claire Danes.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0486655/

Heike wrote: "I finished it, but I will not spill anything. Neil Gaiman did almost quit talking down to his readers - good news ;)

General question: is this story telling style a bit like [book..."

Not sure as I have not read Princess Bride and I read Alice in Highschool which was a million years ago. lol.

Lacey wrote: "Andrea wrote: "It's been a long time since I watched the movie, what differences are there?"

In the movie, Dunsten never got married and it's never mentioned he was courting anyone. He's been livi..."

O Man. I have not watched the movie in ages. I thought the hairy man was the guard at the wall in the film.

Andrea wrote: "Heike wrote: "I finished it, but I will not spill anything. Neil Gaiman did almost quit talking down to his readers - good news ;)

General question: is this story telling style a ..."

I loved the movie PB as a teen but as an adult I made my husband watch it and was very disappointed. It did not transition into adulthood well IMO. =))

I might have to try to read AIW again.

Gio wrote: "I do not remember the movie being as gruesome as the book—also, no sex scenes. The film is very tame compared to the book. "

Gruesome? Sex scenes? Are we reading the same book?

Heike wrote: "Gio wrote: "I do not remember the movie being as gruesome as the book—also, no sex scenes. The film is very tame compared to the book. "

Gruesome? Sex scenes? Are we reading the same book?"

I was thinking when I started this to invite my niece who is 8 to read it with me. (Her mother would have killed me. LOL)
Not that it bothers me just unexpected.

Chapter 1 sex scene

"His Hand felt her small breast through the silk of her dress, touched the hard nubs of her nipples.
"She placed a hundred burning kisses on his face and chest, and then she was above him, straddling him, gasping and laughing, sweating and slippery as a minnow, and he was arching and pushing and exulting,"

Chapter 3 Gruesome

"The first old woman picked up the stoat by the head and sliced it from neck to groin. Its innards tumbled out onto the cutting board, red and purple and plum-colored, intestines and vital organs like wet jewels on the dusty wood."

Chapter 8 Gruesome

"The man's flesh was pale, and his blood had pooled upon the rocky floor below him. Septimus crouched down beside the body and, gingerly, lifted its head by the hair; its throat had been cut, expertly, slit from one eat to the other."

"The witch-queen reached down and pulled her knife from out of the beast's eye-socket. She sliced across its throat. Blood began to ooze, too slowly, from the gash she had made. She walked back and began to hack at the unicorn's neck until she had separated it from the body, and the severed head tumbled into the rock hollow, now filling with a dark red puddle of brackish blood."

I finished it. The ending was nothing like the film.

I gave it three stars.

My version ends at 79% then there is another book tagged on the end. GRRR. I thought there was going to be a more dramatic ending then what it turned out to be.

Gio wrote: "My version ends at 79% then there is another book tagged on the end. GRRR. I thought there was going to be a more dramatic ending then what it turned out to be. ..."

Mine too. And it gets worse, there's an epilogue AFTER the extract of the new book. I'm not kidding. Who did that?

And yes, the book is definitely more graphic and violent than I expected. Especially since the movie is so PG. And the sex scenes where so... Ugh.

And also, is it just me, or was the movie more adventurous? I think it might have been the Skyships and all, but I remember Tristan having more of an adventure.

I also enjoyed the murdering brothers more in the movie, but I blame Mark Strong for that :D

I finished it, too. I'm torn between 2 and 3 stars. On the one hand it was nice and short, but on the other hand, I was still bored here and there. Part of it might be the narration, or I just expected more adventure and less slaughtering of poor unicorns…

Gio wrote: "Heike wrote: "Gio wrote: "I do not remember the movie being as gruesome as the book—also, no sex scenes. The film is very tame compared to the book. "

Gruesome? Sex scenes? Are we reading the same..."

Oh - here you see how insensitive to boob grabbing and throat slicing one can become when reading all the ROMANCE books out there! *lol*

I am finished as well, not sure what you are talking about with 79% and attached epilogues? I have a print version.

I still don't know what the Duncan's Heart's Desire would have been. A tumble with the Birdwoman?

Can someone explain what a "bottle of small beer" is?

All in all it was okay, if not a touch un-exciting (I know, I just made this word up, because "boring" does not really fit), in an afterthought I did not appreciate the Unicorn slaughter, and the revelations at the end sure were a like a flattened balloon.
- The finding of the mother was not even especially mentioned.
- His beloved V. being in love with the used pony was no surprise.
- After traveling together with the star for months, if not years, he noticed any romantic feelings NOW?
-The bad witch is just giving up?
- and so on

My rating will probably be ... I don't know. 2.5, maybe. 0.5 of that for being a classic.

Andrea wrote: "Gio wrote: "My version ends at 79%, then there is another book tagged on end. GRRR. I thought there was going to be a more dramatic ending then what it turned out to be. ..."

Mine too. And it g..."

The film is defiantly more adventurous, and the Dead Lords are better. I am going to watch it again soon. Mark Strong , Plus Rupert Everett, and the all-star cast. It isn't anything like the book. IMO

Andrea wrote: "I finished it, too. I'm torn between 2 and 3 stars. On the one hand it was nice and short, but on the other hand, I was still bored here and there. Part of it might be the narration, or I just expe..."

The little girl in me was so depressed about the Unicorn. LOL
Not remembering that part in the movie.

I was less bored than before. (I attempted this book three times)
It makes me want to read now that I got through this one. I will know what to expect from Neil's writing.

Heike wrote: "Gio wrote: "Heike wrote: "Gio wrote: "I do not remember the movie being as gruesome as the book—also, no sex scenes. The film is very tame compared to the book. "

Gruesome? Sex scenes? Are we read..."

Hahaha!! Truth. As I said, I would not recommend a child under ten read this book...