Ultimate Popsugar Reading Challenge discussion

June group read discussion is open for The Map of Salt and Stars by Zeyn Joukhadar for a book by a trans or non-binary author. The discussion leader this month is Lynn.

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I started this a couple days ago as my library finally opened for Curbside. Honestly I am struggling to read this book there are two stories happening working the book and I enjoy one of the story lines but the other one I want to skip.

Sarah wrote: "I started this a couple days ago as my library finally opened for Curbside. Honestly I am struggling to read this book there are two stories happening working the book and I enjoy one of the story ..."

Which one are you enjoying. TBH, at the beginning of the book, I was only enjoying the "fairy tale" part. But, by the end, I loved the present part just as much, if not more.

The present part

I really wanted to join this group read, but my library will be closed until at least July, and there was already a long wait list for this book so I'm not sure when I'll get it. It will be interesting reading what people think of the book before I actually get around to it though!

I have the audiobook checked out and will get started tomorrow!

Welcome Sarah, Katy, Hannah, and Chrissy!

I apologize for not popping in yesterday, but I was totally immersed in this book and simply could not put it down! (Though I did relent and cook dinner! lol)

I appreciate dual timelines, especially when they mesh as these two do. But I know they are not all that appealing to others. I admit I was a little thrown off for the first 25 pages or so until I got into the rhythm of the novel, especially the format.

I'm really excited to read this. My library only had the audiobook available and I thought the audio version might be too confusing with the two timelines, so I went ahead and purchased it. But it had to be shipped, so hopefully I'll be joining the discussion soon.

I read this at the beginning of the stay at home order. I liked it but struggled with the dual storylines as well. I enjoyed the present storyline more and kind of slogged through the fairy tale one.

Hilary wrote: "I'm really excited to read this. My library only had the audiobook available and I thought the audio version might be too confusing with the two timelines, so I went ahead and purchased it. But it ..."

I don't do audiobooks much, but you could be right about needing to actually read it.

Hilary wrote: "I read this at the beginning of the stay at home order. I liked it but struggled with the dual storylines as well. I enjoyed the present storyline more and kind of slogged through the fairy tale one."

Sorry the fairy tale timeline didn't work as well for you!

Just FYI: questions to be posted soon. I am hoping for Wednesday, June 3rd at the latest. Darn this workload! It is interfering with my Goodreads life! Huh! How dare it!?! :)

So glad it’s over. Honestly I spent most of the time asking myself why are your still reading this. I did enjoy the current time line and would start to get sucked in and then nope here comes the other one.
I will look into her other works as I did enjoy half the book.

I am listening to the audiobook and I'm actually loving it--I've had no trouble recognizing which story I'm in. Plus, I always appreciate listening to someone who can actually pronounce the names and speak the languages! I have only studies Arabic in linguistics courses, which means we don't learn the language itself, just some of the anomalies that make it different.

I adore fairy tales and, for me, I appreciate the breaks from the heaviness of the present. But I truly enjoy both plotlines. I'm hoping to finish today! (I suppose I should mention that I tend to enjoy books with multiple plots, if they're clear and done well.)

Finally! Some questions to get us started thinking... As usual, do not feel obligated to answer any or all of these. And...please simply comment your own impressions/reactions upon reading this book! Sometimes those launch the BEST discussions! :)

(1) Were you familiar with synesthesia prior to reading The Map of Salt and Stars? If so, how? Your own experience? Experiences of others? And..how do you think including this enhanced ability as part of Nour's character influenced the story overall? Did it enhance or detract, in your opinion?

BTW, if you would like more information, this website listed under "Enhance Your Book Club" in the book is an excellent resource.

I like the synesthesia bits, it does enhance Nour’s characterization for me. I’m listening to the audiobook, and wile I enjoy the narration, the plot is so slow! I’m finding it a pretty boring listen.

(2) What type of relationship do you believe Baba had with each of his daughters? How do you believe their bonds with him affected them in the aftermath of the Syrian bombing?

(3) How do the two different timelines influence the plot? What demands does this format place on the reader? Did it make you feel closer to the characters? Was it an effective way to tell this story?

[We already know it was not effective for several of you...]

(4) What effect does Abu Sayeed's arrival have on Nour and her family? What do you think might have happened to the three girls and their mother in the aftermath of the bombing if Abu Sayeed had not been there with them?

(5) How is The Map of Salt and Stars like other novels you have read about refugees? How is it different?

(7) How do the characters rely on their religion throughout the novel?

(8) Why do you think the title The Map of Salt and Stars was selected for this novel? What significance does it hold for the characters? What does it mean to you?

(9) What advantages or disadvantages are present as a result of having a child, Nour, as the narrator? Did you feel as if it enhanced or detracted from the story overall to have Nour/a child as the narrator? Who might you choose to narrate the story instead? Why?

I just put this book on hold - so when the library finally opens I will be first on the list --- hoping it is soon so i can join you all for the discussion

(1) Were you familiar with synesthesia prior to reading The Map of Salt and Stars? If so, how? Your own experience? Experiences of others? And..how do you think including this enhanced ability as part of Nour's character influenced the story overall? Did it enhance or detract, in your opinion? I had actually never heard of it before. I didn't really think it made much difference in the character, at least not in my reading of her, tbh.

Why do you think the title The Map of Salt and Stars was selected for this novel? What significance does it hold for the characters? What does it mean to you? I think the stars represents the general way of navigating and maybe also the heavens and/or Heaven. And the salt is from tears, or maybe the ocean.

(10) What is the significance of the "stone" and why does Nour discard it?

(11) Khaldun says: "The words of others can overwhelm and drown out your own. So, you see, you must keep careful track of the borders of your stories, where your voice ends and another's begins" (page 133). Discuss the power of stories. How were the stories important to the characters?

Can you provide examples of the characters protecting their voices?

How do you stay true to yourself?

(12) What is the significance of the stone and why does Nour finally discard it?

(13) Nour says to Yusuf, "I thought you were like the other bad men" (page 223). Of what significance is Yusuf's character? Were you expecting a different outcome for him?

(13) How do the characters react to the trauma of sexual violence? Why do you think neither Nour nor Huda tells anyone immediately after? Why does Nour choose to tell Yusuf? What was your reaction to that scene? What do you think any lasting effects of that attack were?

(14) What similarities did you notice among the three sisters: Nour, Huda, and Zahra? How were they each different?

(15) Compare and contrast the storylines of Rawiya and Nour. How did Nour's 'superpower' and Rawiya's being the roc slayer help to save their families?

(16) What is al-Idrisi's role in the story? Did knowing that this character is based on a real person affect the way you read the novel?

(17) What do you think might have happened to the planisphere "guarded forever, safe from selfish hands" (page 307).

(18) What makes reading historical fiction enjoyable to you? What are any drawbacks?

How do you think the fairy tale and the present-day stories intertwined?

(1) I was not familiar with synesthesia and actually had to look it up to understand what it was. When I first noticed that Nour's synesthesia was going to be a prominent trait of her character I thought it was going to annoy me. I was exhausted by the endless math equations in The Alice Network and thought this was going to be a similar obnoxious trait. Fortunately, I actually am growing to enjoy it. I feel it enhances the text and really gives me a sense of what is going on in vivid colors.

(1) Were you familiar with synesthesia prior to reading The Map of Salt and Stars? If so, how? Your own experience? Experiences of others? And..how do you think including this enhanced ability as part of Nour's character influenced the story overall? Did it enhance or detract, in your opinion?

I knew of it and had read about it, but I've never met anyone (that I know of) with synesthesia. I find it really fascinating! It's something I wish we'd had more time to dive into when I took psycholinguistics. I do think it gave Nour a different outlook on the world and what was happening affected her in different ways. For me, since I love beautiful descriptions, it enhanced the reading experience.

(2) What type of relationship do you believe Baba had with each of his daughters? How do you believe their bonds with him affected them in the aftermath of the Syrian bombing?

This is tough. I don't know about Huda, but it was obvious Zarah held some jealousy toward Nour because of Nour's close relationship with Baba. Nour obviously related to Baba's sense of wonder about the world and affinity for stories and dreams. Zarah was more like their Mama, more real-world and concrete, and she had trouble appreciating Baba's approach. That bond obviously made it even harder for Nour, since she felt secure and understood with Baba around.

I think Zarah felt misunderstood for much of it, and again, jealous of Nour and the way others went out of their way to protect her. But when it was her turn to be in charge, I think her mom's resilience and focus on family really came out.

I guess all I can say about Huda is that she likely loved Baba's stories as a child, but mostly grew out of them. She was still able to follow Nour's thought process much of the time, and provided similar comfort to what Baba would have given. Not to say she became a father-figure to Nour but...kind of?

(3) How do the two different timelines influence the plot? What demands does this format place on the reader? Did it make you feel closer to the characters? Was it an effective way to tell this story?

Lots of parallels and the past affecting the future, which I love (it reminds me a lot of how Holes is told). You do have to be able to keep both stories, and sometimes lots of details, in your head. But I felt connected to the characters in both stories and the parallels between Nour and Rawiyah (please forgive my spelling if it's wrong--I listened to the audiobook) were really fun to watch, even though they were such different ages and on such different journeys. (view spoiler)[I did have trouble when both Becker (again, no idea how his name is spelled, that's just how it sounded to me) and Abu Sayeed (sp?) died. I see the parallel, and I'm not opposed to it, it was just a lot of sadness as a reader, because (for me anyway), I felt really attached to both of them. (hide spoiler)]

I started the book this week and am about 20% of the way through. Looking at the questions, I'll read a bit more to get a better overall picture.

I like dual timeline stories, and both of these are interesting to me, so that helps! (And I love the cover!)

Sarah wrote: "So glad it’s over. Honestly I spent most of the time asking myself why are your still reading this. I did enjoy the current time line and would start to get sucked in and then nope here comes the o..."

Sorry the fairy tale didn't work well for you. Perhaps you will be able to find another of her books that works better overall!

Shannon wrote: "I am listening to the audiobook and I'm actually loving it--I've had no trouble recognizing which story I'm in. Plus, I always appreciate listening to someone who can actually pronounce the names and speak the languages! I have only studies Arabic in linguistics courses, which means we don't learn the language itself, just some of the anomalies that make it different.

I adore fairy tales and, for me, I appreciate the breaks from the heaviness of the present. But I truly enjoy both plotlines. I'm hoping to finish today! (I suppose I should mention that I tend to enjoy books with multiple plots, if they're clear and done well.)"

I hadn't considered that the fairy tale does work to break up the more intense real-life story. And audiobooks would help with pronunciation of names, etc., as long as they were correct! :)

Chrissy wrote: "I like the synesthesia bits, it does enhance Nour’s characterization for me. I’m listening to the audiobook, and wile I enjoy the narration, the plot is so slow! I’m finding it a pretty boring listen."

Well, hopefully it will pick up for you soon! :)

Sherri wrote: "I just put this book on hold - so when the library finally opens I will be first on the list --- hoping it is soon so i can join you all for the discussion"

I hope so as well! It isn't even open for curbside pickup? :( Bummer...

Katy wrote: "(1) Were you familiar with synesthesia prior to reading The Map of Salt and Stars? If so, how? Your own experience? Experiences of others? And..how do you think including this enhanced ability as part of Nour's character influenced the story overall? Did it enhance or detract, in your opinion? I had actually never heard of it before. I didn't really think it made much difference in the character, at least not in my reading of her, tbh."

Cool. At least it wasn't distracting to you and now you know about synesthesia! :)

"Why do you think the title The Map of Salt and Stars was selected for this novel? What significance does it hold for the characters? What does it mean to you? I think the stars represents the general way of navigating and maybe also the heavens and/or Heaven. And the salt is from tears, or maybe the ocean."

Ooohhh, I hadn't thought about the stars representing heaven! I like that! I agree about navigation, plus, their placement in the sky is unchanged between the two timelines, at least as far as I know... Kinda that same thing of the stars appear the same to anyone looking at the sky, no matter their location.

I also thought salt referred to the ocean, but I hadn't linked it with tears! I like that!

Katelyn wrote: "(1) I was not familiar with synesthesia and actually had to look it up to understand what it was...Fortunately, I actually am growing to enjoy it. I feel it enhances the text and really gives me a sense of what is going on in vivid colors.."

I felt it was an enhancement as well. I have a good friend with similar sensing abilities and it sometimes is very uncomfortable for her, so I did have some prior knowledge. But, I didn't realize the vast diversity of those abilities until I read on that website. I find it amazing how different each mind/body can be! :)

Shannon wrote: "Shannon (friend)
1436 books | 51 friends
see comment history(1) Were you familiar with synesthesia prior to reading The Map of Salt and Stars? If so, how? Your own experience? Experiences of others? And..how do you think including this enhanced ability as part of Nour's character influenced the story overall? Did it enhance or detract, in your opinion?

I knew of it and had read about it, but I've never met anyone (that I know of) with synesthesia. I find it really fascinating! It's something I wish we'd had more time to dive into when I took psycholinguistics. I do think it gave Nour a different outlook on the world and what was happening affected her in different ways. For me, since I love beautiful descriptions, it enhanced the reading experience."

Ooohhh! Psycholinguistics sounds like a study I would enjoy! I took one linguistics course in college and was fascinated! And to combine that with psychology? Oh, yeah!

I thought it enhanced my reading of this book as well, plus it gave me more insight as to how that might affect a person's interpretation/understanding of the world and specific situations.

Shannon wrote: "(2) What type of relationship do you believe Baba had with each of his daughters? How do you believe their bonds with him affected them in the aftermath of the Syrian bombing?

This is tough. I don't know about Huda, but it was obvious Zarah held some jealousy toward Nour because of Nour's close relationship with Baba. Nour obviously related to Baba's sense of wonder about the world and affinity for stories and dreams. Zarah was more like their Mama, more real-world and concrete, and she had trouble appreciating Baba's approach. That bond obviously made it even harder for Nour, since she felt secure and understood with Baba around.

I think Zarah felt misunderstood for much of it, and again, jealous of Nour and the way others went out of their way to protect her. But when it was her turn to be in charge, I think her mom's resilience and focus on family really came out.

I guess all I can say about Huda is that she likely loved Baba's stories as a child, but mostly grew out of them. She was still able to follow Nour's thought process much of the time, and provided similar comfort to what Baba would have given. Not to say she became a father-figure to Nour but...kind of?"

I separated out your replies to better reply to each! :)

I felt we really didn't have much information regarding Huda's relationship with her father, Baba. I do agree that Zahra seemed jealous of Nour's relationship with their father, though I don't believe I realized it until you pointed it out! Thank you! I also felt Nour was jealous of Zahra's gold bracelet, though she did try to talk herself out of those jealous feelings a few times.

I also felt that Nour and Baba just had compatible interests and enjoyment for the stories. Plus, Nour is the "middle child" and typically they feel left out and are searching for connection, so I was glad she had that with Baba. Though her life was probably much more traumatic in the wake of his death and absence from their lives. Plus they were uprooted to a different country/culture. Lots of change!

I think Huda did become somewhat of a father figure to Nour, however, perhaps just more of an anchor. Zahra was so much older and at a time in her life when she is thinking of peers, romance, etc., more than anything else! :)

Shannon wrote: "(3) How do the two different timelines influence the plot? What demands does this format place on the reader? Did it make you feel closer to the characters? Was it an effective way to tell this story?

Lots of parallels and the past affecting the future, which I love (it reminds me a lot of how Holes is told). You do have to be able to keep both stories, and sometimes lots of details, in your head. But I felt connected to the characters in both stories and the parallels between Nour and Rawiyah (please forgive my spelling if it's wrong--I listened to the audiobook) were really fun to watch, even though they were such different ages and on such different journeys. (view spoiler)"

Yes, their ages were different, though I felt there was some similarity in their journeys as they were both simply trying to save their own family. Rawiya was trying to earn money to return to her family to save them and Nour was simply trying to find their uncle to save her family by providing food and shelter.

Regarding the spoiler, (view spoiler)[ I agree that the two deaths were heartbreaking, though if Abu Sayeed had lived, perhaps Nour's intuition would not have been needed to help locate her uncle. It might have proven to be more difficult to make her character the "hero"? But I cried when he drowned...definitely so sad! (hide spoiler)]

Meg wrote: "I started the book this week and am about 20% of the way through. Looking at the questions, I'll read a bit more to get a better overall picture.

I like dual timeline stories, and both of these are interesting to me, so that helps! (And I love the cover!)"

I also love dual/multiple timelines. And I do love the cover. I feel as if it definitely fits with the story.

Lynn wrote: "... Plus, Nour is the "middle child" and typically they feel left out and are searching for connection, so I was glad she had that with Baba. ..."

I’m listening to audio, and honestly I’m rather bored so my mind wanders a bit, I thought Zahra was the middle child? Huss seems like the oldest, more mature daughter, and Noor seems like the baby of the family.

I’m currently 43% through now. I’m listening to the audiobook, and it’s not confusing at all. (I might spell some names wrong!)

I don’t like heavily descriptive writing, so I’m annoyed by this writing (all the adjectives! all the metaphors! all the extraneous detail!!), and I’ve found I’m exceptionally bored by the fairy tale portion (and I usually love fairy tales, but in this case it’s just getting in the way of the riveting tale of Noor and her family being refugees from Syria). So I’ve just started skipping the fairy tale parts. I wish the audiobook was broken into audio files that allowed me to easily skip each section, but it’s not, so I just sort of fast forward a bit.

Ive found Noor’s “voice” to be inconsistent. She usually sounds like a young woman in her twenties, but now and then she’ll say something that reminds me that she’s supposed to be a child. The author did not successfully capture the voice of a child. I can see how it’s useful for Noor to be an American child, because it allows the narrator to be ignorant of certain things that an American reader might also be ignorant about, so an explanation can be given without seeming like a pointless infodump.

I’d heard of synesthesia before. I do not have it, but I guess I’m sympathetic to it, because things like a smell being yellow or a dog’s bark being silver-purple make sense to me.

Ive just gotten to the part where Noor’s hair has been shaved and she’s been told to pretend to be a boy, and that’s interesting, since we are reading this for a transgender/non-binary author. And of course in the fairytale we also have a girl pretending to be a boy. Rawiya’s story is full of men around her, who don’t know she’s a girl, but so far Noor’s story is full of mostly women around her.